Dark Knight Megathread

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Supersnow845

That’s exactly why TBN is the good short CD and the others are bad

You have correctly identified you can’t just spam in the burst window and you need to maintain some mana for a later mechanic, maybe depending on the situation as you get more gear you may be able to shuffle around your mitigation plan to overcome this (big maybe I’m just kinda using it as an example) but it required skill oh your part to recognise how to best use your resources, it’s a consideration that is entirely lacking in the other tanks which makes them feel flat and boring

What’s the point playing a tank if there is nothing dynamic about your gameplay; at the point the other three are at you are basically playing a gimped melee DPS but all your long CD’s are defensives rather than big damage buttons

---

For sure. The reason I still stick with DRK, despite it's rotation being nothing special, is that emphasis on proper defensive CDs. DRK is the only tank that actively encourages you to mitigate and use your defensive CDs, meanwhile the other tanks have so much sustain that they can do just fine by combining any defensive with their short CD with no risk at all. I used to be against TBN costing mana, but damn I think I would just lobotomize myself if they removed the cost. I do still want more mana spenders in our basic rotation though.

A little off topic, I really hate how they're trying to push for a more DPS focus for jobs but not giving us more to do during DPS. Every tank CD feels like a wasted skill slot for what could've been something fun to use. With all the tanks (most likely) getting their 30% mit upgraded in DT, they better all get unique effects and not just free healing. Hot take, I want them to bring back damage gains when main tanking.

DRK needs a skill where your character draws a big spooky-looking sword from their heart. I don't know what it would do, but it would look cool.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I mean TBN and edge are both oGCD’s, if you dump all your mana into edge and don’t have TBN that is literally just a flat skill issue, not TBN being underpowered. Drifting a single edge out of the primary burst window because TBN cracked a little late delaying the last edge is literally the single smallest loss of DPS I can functionally imagine that it’s such a non issue

You should be expected to properly meter your resources, not just have your burst cover your healing for you so you don’t have to think about resource arrangement

---

Well I do but I'm looking at this from the perspective of what I expect, I have never once felt like feedback has been taken in this game other than very broad strokes, in which DRK sustain complaints has been here for years, and I fully beleive in SE's ability to over-correct the issue. Much like they did with tank damage right now.

Like yeah I'd love to play the game where they make healers not suck, but until yoship goes out on stage and says "we're gonna make healers not suck", I'm going to keep expecting them to suck.
Likewise I see no reason to expect the tank sustain creep to stop, as its not like the devs have even talked about this at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oizen

No actually, I'd say theres a unique gap in DRK's sustain thats kinda nasty where during a burst window you're particularly vulnerable, and thats during a burst window where all your MP is being pumped into edges you end up in a situation where you have nothing for TBN and it can be a bit of a hassle in some fights if left unaccounted for.
A confiteor style heal during the burst would go a long way to remedy this. Not that I really expect it to actually heal, but the gap between the healing on DRK and the other tank is so vast that I don't think something like this would be out of place.


I also have no expectations that a tank sustain nerf is ever going to be on the cards unless they specifically change the direction of the game.

---

I actually like that though, because it puts one job at a disadvantage in certain scenario's to make others shine.
...The problem though, is that only Dark knight is given downsides and unfavorable situations.
Because except for Gunbreaker during downtimes/ boss transitions specifically (and even then, their raw dps buffs have kinda offset the weakness) they immediately remove downsides from the others.
Look no further than the regens on Warrior to deal with the bleeds from Abyssos, designed to make another tank shine for a change, and we can't have that apparently.
The ONE situation where War wasn't the best solution to a mechanic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

I actually like that though, because it puts one job at a disadvantage in certain scenario's to make others shine.
...The problem though, is that only Dark knight is given downsides and unfavorable situations.
Because except for Gunbreaker during downtimes/ boss transitions specifically (and even then, their raw dps buffs have kinda offset the weakness) they immediately remove downsides from the others.
Look no further than the regens on Warrior to deal with the bleeds from Abyssos, designed to make another tank shine for a change, and we can't have that apparently.
The ONE situation where War wasn't the best solution to a mechanic.

---

Kinda?I would say Paladin has had its fair share of downsides, a lot of PLD's tools seem to have a higher degree of intentional downsides built into them. Clemency is a damage loss, Wings require precise positioning and is also a damage loss if you try to maximize them, I think its fine.

But in terms of downsides to differentiate tanks, I don't really find that all that engaging.
Like I'm not on the edge of my seat because Dark Mind or Dark Missionary can be removed from your hotbar in about 70% of content in this game, like wow my buttons just arbitrarily don't work now its so engaging, nor do I think the game's identity hinges on Dark Knight and Gunbreaker basically not having a raidwide mit in any content focused on physical damage. (Dungeons, Deep Dungeons, Criterion, ect.)

To me the advantages that make Dark Knight engaging to me is TBN being tied to a resource for Damage and it having almost half the cooldown of the lv 82 mits, it doesnt need to be as strong as those because you're using it twice as much. To me this makes the job way more engaging than the other 3 just trying to maximize it and keeping it all set up for a burst window. Theres a reasonable downside of having it tied to MP, and a reasonable upside of 15s CD compared to 25s. This pairs extraordinarly well with the 2 charge low CD on Oblation, and the low CD on Dark Mind, more like this please.

I don't like differentiating tanks just by putting blatant gaps in their kit and calling it a day. Thats why PLD was so trash for so long in this game due to its inability to take magic. Hell that was a problem through all of Abyssos because HS's increased block chance just didn't work on bleeds, I basically had to baby my OT PLD through it with Oblation to keep his job functional, I'm not crying that was fixed. Likewise, I've been playing DRK a lot in lv 70 ultimates and its not ENGAGING to me to just not have a raidwide mit at all, it feels bad and like the job I'm playing is a throw pick compared to other options for no reason other than arbitrarily not having a button for a situation.

I think the only reason it's frustrating is because there's no longer any plus sides to speak of.
We're not shining in any piece of content anymore, the only tank that still does is War because it has the best version of every tank cooldown, and Gnb if you REALLY care about that 100 extra dps.
But if we want to move away from homogenisation i think sometimes not having the best answer for a situation is a great way to go about it.
When i did Uwu i felt like i was throwing too, because i had no party mits or self healing, and also play the lowest damage tank in the fight. There was no upsides for my job.
That just felt bad.

I think you're kind of exaggerating about TBN, because the lower cooldown didn't ever really come into play for me outside of P10. I personally try to use it as little as possible, because people are unpredictable.
I've had other people mitigate or voke on auto's and then my TBN wouldn't break. I don't think it's a well designed ability tbh. Especially now that we're no longer allowed to do more dps than the others.
But even in P10, that advantage felt moot. Because i had no way of interacting with HH meaningfully outside of generic mits everyone else gets. And also missed out on party buffs because of all the group distance.
Missing out on party buffs felt really bad, because we already need the perfect burst windows to do the same damage as the others with an inferior toolkit.
I think you can make the case that it shouldn't have *no* interaction with some mechanics at all. (Magic mits against physical damage) But i never felt that any of my mits gave me an advantage over the other tanks outside of Abyssos before they buffed War and PLD. So i kinda just feel like i'm making everything more difficult for no reason for playing Drk now.

I don't agree, and I think you're generally too down on this job as a whole.

I remember plenty of spots where TBN's shorter CD helped my group get through Anabaseios, I remember all the bleeds in Abyssos basically making the skill free real estate to play DRK as the world's worst shield healer. There's even a good number of spots where I found it feeling good in Criterion/Criterion Savage. Its not free though, you have to be willing to experiment with them and its something I like to do to keep prog engaging, trying to find all the spots where TBN will work and how I can get it to take me as far as it does. But even beyond that, that cooldown shouldn't be discredited, P12SP2 has multiple spots where you can basically TBN on CD and guarantee breaks, which is fantastic during its more hectic mechanics where healers might not be looking, you can basically get two TBN breaks on both calorics from the autos.

TBN is not as strong as the lv 82s, TWO TBNs however is stronger than the lv 82s, and given their cooldown differences I think this is a fair thing to factor in, and thats not factoring in Oblation or Dark Mind's lower CDs. Being able to cycle these so frequently without touching the standard mits IS Dark Knights shining feature, mastering DRKs mits I find takes you way farther than the other tanks really can go, with the only one feeling similar now is post rework PLD.


Another notable upside of Dark Knight is Living Dead funny enough, this is the only invuln in the game that has the possibility to be a net-gain on resources on its own. Its been kinda rare to find spots where this matters, but it ended up making Dark Knight my tank of choice for Another Mount Rokkon Savage, being able to shrug off so much damage from the first add-pack, instantly heal up and play the rest of the dungeon with Dark Knight's superior and more available mitigations for the rest of the dungeons made that one surprisingly easy for me.

I'd also like to say that Dark Knight's Damage situation is not as bad as you're making it out. Dark Knight is still seeing a lot of play in high end content, and while its true other tanks will out damage dark knight when attacking striking dummies, so what? In practice Dark Knight is still the 2nd largest burst window in the game, and with a the way a lot of fights are phased, Dark Knight gets way more out of downtime mechs than the other tanks, and with this in mind dark knight still ends up being a great option for a lot of fights for speed kills and damage output. Given I also do not give a shit about this, I do not participate in it, and I never really will. I play this job because I like what it does and its fun to play, I'd play it if it was the worst or the best, I just don't really care about this sort of thing.

The areas where balance is fucked is honestly sub lv 90 content, which seems to always be deliberately ignored when it comes to balancing, and has always been extraordinarily shit when it comes to balancing. Level Sync is FFXIV's worst feature and I'll die on that hill.

Downsides are always relative. I'm not a fan of physical or magical only mitigation, but you have to look at the context in which these originated. Sheltron was released as a physical damage only cooldown in Heavensward. Raw Intuition, released at the same time, was physical damage only (and guaranteed critical hits when you were hit from the rear). Dark Dance was physical damage only as well. The reason why PLD was at a disadvantage in Heavensward was damage, not mitigation. In fact, there were several fights where PLD/DRK players tended to swap to PLD for progression at least, simply because PLD was a much safer option.

SE uses a firefighting approach to balance. There's no overarching vision about how roles should be balanced as a whole, because everything is reactive in response to player complaints. So when you complain about physical damage only cooldowns, Sheltron and Block now work against all damage types (+1 PLD), WAR gains Rampart (+1 WAR), and Dark Dance is changed to the role action Anticipation (-1 DRK). In the meanwhile, the one tank with magic damage only mitigation tools ends up with cooldowns that are worthless under various circumstances.

The same thing happened for knockback prevention in Heavensward. PLD had Tempered Will, WAR had Holmgang, DRK had Plunge. Knockbacks themselves were relatively infrequent, but people complained. WAR demanded a gap closer and knockback mitigation and received better versions of both. When Stormblood came around, the frequency of knockbacks in raid content jumped up dramatically as a result, but DRK didn't have the toolkit that the other two tanks had. There are plenty of other examples. Raidwide mitigation is another great one.

You have to commit to a design philosophy and apply it fairly across the entire role. Player demands will tend to push towards homogenization, simply because everyone wants what the competition is having. For supports, that results in mitigation inflation and more of your hotbar space gets dedicated to defensive actions. You can do one of two things in response. Either you acknowledge that all tanks will have their unique advantages (and relative disadvantages) and push further into those design differences, or you deliberately homogenize a gameplay aspect to remove any imbalances and ensure strict fairness. But you have to commit. The real problem is partial homogenization, where tanks are similar enough that you can identify a clear cut winner from the differences, but not similar enough to eliminate those imbalances. Vengeance is the classical example.

People also tend to forget that Holy Sheltron has 1/3 the recast of TBN, and functionally has the ability to store two charges. TBN is an interesting concept, but it seems like they don't really know what to do with the design.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oizen

I don't agree, and I think you're generally too down on this job as a whole.

---

You're not really selling the job to me here.
I never even get the burst windows the job needs to do the same dps as the other tanks at the same skill level. So speed kills are completely out of the question.
TBN is unrewarding jank for the sake of being different. Getting 2 reliable TBN's also doesn't amount to as much as you think it does.
On the rare occasion where you can use 2 immediately back to back on cooldown, how much would it outweigh the additional fat healing and lingering mits the others get after?
If a TBN breaks, it's gone. It has no healing that comes after, and it doesn't have any lingering mitigations either.
TBN's current design is shit. And the shorter cooldown doesn't matter. The benefits (When things go right) are negligible.
I mostly play with random players and i can't predict whenever Jim wants to help with his mits during tankbusters because the youtubers told him to use Feint or Addle.
I've played with Machinists who double mitigated the knockback mechanic on P10, TWICE. And caused me to lose near 1000 potency of damage for no reason. Or when my co tank randomly vokes or mits.
It's easily the most frustrating ability in the entire game. I'm genuinely puzzled when you say it's rewarding at all, just because you can *sometimes* use it to cover 2 mechanics in a row.

If i was looking for a tank, Drk is the last one i'd want. And i think you'd agree. It needs the most attention and provides the least. None of what you were arguing for is anything i'd consider noteworthy in comparison to everything the other tanks can do.
I do think Drk has the second best invuln, but that's not necessarily because of the healing. Because none of the other tanks are set up to where they have to worry about their mitigation plans interfering with their damage windows to begin with.
The healing is a solution to the self inflicted problem of the job's design. That's not a selling point. And the other tanks get all that healing and more in the rest of their toolkit. The only thing that sometimes matters is the shorter cooldown.
Maybe it's different in current ultimates for TBN, i don't know. But that's a super narrow scope anyways.

DRK isn't as horrible as Goat claims, but DRK should def not be dealing the lowest dps. I do think it's stupid how reliant DRK is on raid buffs to even have a chance of out DPSing the other tanks. However, being able to solo tank busters in P7s and P10s without ever going below half HP felt damn good.

TBN is far from the most frustrating ability in the game imo. From my experience, TBNs utility is as good as its user. It's really good for mitigating auto-attacks which can be quite damaging without BiS, and is always up for a TB; compare that to the 25 CDs and I usually catch them on CD for TBs when I'm actively using them to mitigate. TBN still sucks in content that isn't raiding though and could def use some improvements there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sazuzaki

DRK isn't as horrible as Goat claims, but DRK should def not be dealing the lowest dps. I do think it's stupid how reliant DRK is on raid buffs to even have a chance of out DPSing the other tanks. However, being able to solo tank busters in P7s and P10s without ever going below half HP felt damn good.

TBN is far from the most frustrating ability in the game imo. From my experience, TBNs utility is as good as its user. It's really good for mitigating auto-attacks which can be quite damaging without BiS, and is always up for a TB; compare that to the 25 CDs and I usually catch them on CD for TBs when I'm actively using them to mitigate. TBN still sucks in content that isn't raiding though and could def use some improvements there.

---

I don't think the job is horrible, i just don't think it provides anything the others don't already do better.
Idk why forum users like claiming TBN is a skill based mit in an attempt to undermine my problems with it, to imply i'm just bad at the game. My problems with it specifically come from external mits.
Which are completely out of my control. It's the fact that i get punished when someone else fucks with my mitigation plan when none of the other tanks are.

Well I mean if TBN isn't the skill based mit then there just flat out isn't one.
Personally I think it does just enough to shine on its own, like how everyone thinks Holmgang is the best invuln for its duration, that sort of logic most definitely applies to Dark Knight's shorter mit timers and makes them more than the sum of their parts.

I'll give you that I don't think DRK's lack of party utility is fair if its not going to be pulling more damage, but I don't really see a reason to get mad about this until after we see everything DT brings us. If DRK gets a Confetior style heal, being able to do that behind a fat TBN shield honestly would spike its selfish defenses to the best of all the tanks by a mile, its already leading the pack in terms of self mitigation honestly. Is that the identity you want? Maybe not, but I don't think we're ever going to see the tanks do anything radically different from eachother ever again.

Oh god, another "wait and see" arguer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

Oh god, another "wait and see" arguer.

---

I mean realistically what else is there to do? Shout into the void? They dont read feedback from the English side of the forums. You'd have better luck on twitter.

Raising hell before we saw DRG rework seemed to do wonders, with the SE actually pushing it back until 7.0. Even if it's absolute dogshit despite all the push back and demands against oversimplification, at least I got to play the entire patch cycle with my favorite job before it's gone.

You absolutely should criticize before we see the full thing, because clearly the culture in SE is such that once they release something, it's almost impossible to get them to admit they made a mistake.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

Raising hell before we saw DRG rework seemed to do wonders, with the SE actually pushing it back until 7.0. Even if it's absolute dogshit despite all the push back and demands against oversimplification, at least I got to play the entire patch cycle with my favorite job before it's gone.

You absolutely should criticize before we see the full thing, because clearly the culture in SE is such that once they release something, it's almost impossible to get them to admit they made a mistake.

---

I mean in the exact same way I meant it before, I wouldn't defend the DRG rework until we know more about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

I don't think the job is horrible, i just don't think it provides anything the others don't already do better.
Idk why forum users like claiming TBN is a skill based mit in an attempt to undermine my problems with it, to imply i'm just bad at the game. My problems with it specifically come from external mits.
Which are completely out of my control. It's the fact that i get punished when someone else fucks with my mitigation plan when none of the other tanks are.

---

Not implying you're bad at the game, but what I'm saying is you're probably just using it in spots that don't consistently break it in the first place. If something like a MCH mit prevents your whole TBN from breaking, then you probably shouldn't use it there. If the knockback you're talking about is the final laser in limit cut, MCH mit shouldn't prevent your TBN from breaking unless you were to kitchen sink it. Your complaints are valid, but I'm listing as to why TBN is still a strong short CD and why people prefer it over the other ones. TBN can be janky because of gear and whatnot, but the only fights where gear has held my TBN back from breaking is during the first turn of each tier and that's it. Everything else was just a skill issue on my part.

Off topic, but I really hope we can get stackable dark arts in DT lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sazuzaki

Not implying you're bad at the game, but what I'm saying is you're probably just using it in spots that don't consistently break it in the first place. If something like a MCH mit prevents your whole TBN from breaking, then you probably shouldn't use it there. If the knockback you're talking about is the final laser in limit cut, MCH mit shouldn't prevent your TBN from breaking unless you were to kitchen sink it. Your complaints are valid, but I'm listing as to why TBN is still a strong short CD and why people prefer it over the other ones. TBN can be janky because of gear and whatnot, but the only fights where gear has held my TBN back from breaking is during the first turn of each tier and that's it. Everything else was just a skill issue on my part.

Off topic, but I really hope we can get stackable dark arts in DT lol

---

I pop a TBN before the knockback towers, and when it comes back up i pop one to deal with the DoT as well.
This worked out just fine normally (At the time i did it anyways) but the DoT doesn't hit hard enough if someone else pops extra mits.
Half of the issue is getting better gear, which felt particularly bad in this tier because half the gear came with tenacity.

I think everyone is looking hard at DRK for DT, and GNB as well in terms of utility since that no longer determines how much damage a tank does.

I do think a upgraded TBN is needed for DT and a level 40 version of TBN needs to be created as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Derio

I think everyone is looking hard at DRK for DT, and GNB as well in terms of utility since that no longer determines how much damage a tank does.

I do think a upgraded TBN is needed for DT and a level 40 version of TBN needs to be created as well.

---

Can see the want of a low level version of TBN (Arcane Barrier, just to spit ball a name), but honestly I want Dark Mind to get the Addle treatment. Is a bit nasty that Camouflage gets to be a 10% generic mit with bonus for physical auto attacks but the moment the majority or all damage is physical Dark Mind ceases to exist as a cooldown. In example, basically most dungeons.

A simple "Reduces magical damage taken by 20% and reduces physical damage taken by 10%" would do the trick for me. Still better for magic (basically unchanged), actually not a dead cooldown against physical attacks.

You could just simplify it to 10% Mit, 10% Magic mit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oizen

You could just simplify it to 10% Mit, 10% Magic mit.

---

Well. Kind of, but there are differences. For a start, this would be a net -1% magic mitigation (0.9 * 0.9 = 0.81 -> 81% damage remaining -> 19% mitigation), not a debilitating decrease but I'd rather keep it stable.

For another, it would then grant mitigation against Unique damage (i.e. not-physical + not-magical). Generally this only really applies to Heavensward and prior (breath attacks often had this, like Ifrit's breath) as Unique damage is mostly attributed to unavoidable mechanic damage.

Final two points would be less spaghetti code for CBU3 devs to work on (damage calculation formula) and it is simply easier to digest when you read it as a player. 20% magic, 10% phys has zero ambiguity over what it does. Plus it is easier to argue for the implementation due to Addle having basically this effect but in debuff form.

TL;DR: both are fine, but I see my suggestion more realistically added - gut feeling.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Well. Kind of, but there are differences. For a start, this would be a net -1% magic mitigation (0.9 * 0.9 = 0.81 -> 81% damage remaining -> 19% mitigation), not a debilitating decrease but I'd rather keep it stable.

For another, it would then grant mitigation against Unique damage (i.e. not-physical + not-magical). Generally this only really applies to Heavensward and prior (breath attacks often had this, like Ifrit's breath) as Unique damage is mostly attributed to unavoidable mechanic damage.

Final two points would be less spaghetti code for CBU3 devs to work on (damage calculation formula) and it is simply easier to digest when you read it as a player. 20% magic, 10% phys has zero ambiguity over what it does. Plus it is easier to argue for the implementation due to Addle having basically this effect but in debuff form.

TL;DR: both are fine, but I see my suggestion more realistically added - gut feeling.

---

I'd just go 15% magic mit and 10% shields.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

I'd just go 15% magic mit and 10% shields.

---

That would be a very slight gain in magic mitigation for damage spikes/single hit cases (129.41% vs 125% effective HP), slightly weaker at recurring magical hits + regens taken into account (Akh Morn and other multi-hit attacks) and a rather meaningless HP shield vs physical/unique damage scenarios.

For single hits, the 10% HP shield would provide a relative +10% effective HP where 10% physical damage reduction would be +11.1% (100% / 0.9 = 111.11...%). Since the preferred application would be against multiple attacks over time (10s duration) like dungeons, you'd have more value out of 10% physical reduction than a 10% HP shield, especially when taking regens and heals taken into account.

Hate to say it, but your suggestion would perform poorly against physical damage, especially in presence of TBN at Lv70+.

Yeah, while I would like to see DRK lean more into shielding I don't think Dark Mind is a good candidate for it. (It's pretty likely Shadow Wall will be upgraded if WAR isn't the only one who gets an upgraded 120s CD...which wouldn't surprise me). So it's possible to be on Shadow Wall instead.

I wouldn't mind seeing Dark Mind get the addle treatment, but please god don't make it just another rampart.

The only scenario I would ever accept that is if rampart stops being a role action and is PLD exclusive again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zairava

Yeah, while I would like to see DRK lean more into shielding I don't think Dark Mind is a good candidate for it. (It's pretty likely Shadow Wall will be upgraded if WAR isn't the only one who gets an upgraded 120s CD...which wouldn't surprise me). So it's possible to be on Shadow Wall instead.

I wouldn't mind seeing Dark Mind get the addle treatment, but please god don't make it just another rampart.

The only scenario I would ever accept that is if rampart stops being a role action and is PLD exclusive again.

---

I have heard *cough* birds tweeting *cough* about an uprising of the 30% defensives. Something to look forward for.

But what do I know. *giggle*

I really wish Rampart was PLD exclusive again and bring back WAR and DRK's equivalents while giving GNB a new skill to fit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oizen

I really wish Rampart was PLD exclusive again and bring back WAR and DRK's equivalents while giving GNB a new skill to fit.

---

Foresight (with current rampart effect) for WAR, Shadowskin for DRK, something new for GNB, yuss.

Four flavours of Raise and three variants of Troubadour are OK, but Rampart had to be unified? Weird.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Foresight (with current rampart effect) for WAR, Shadowskin for DRK, something new for GNB, yuss.

Four flavours of Raise and three variants of Troubadour are OK, but Rampart had to be unified? Weird.

---

To be fair what they do tend to make into single actions and what they don’t seems to be completely arbitrary given healers also lost their unique esuna equivalents and their lucid dreaming equivalents while retaining their unique rezzes

I’m always in favour of the troubadour method over the rampart method myself even if in the grand scheme of things it’s a tiny change at best

They might probably have plans on adding effects to those, perhaps?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Foresight (with current rampart effect) for WAR, Shadowskin for DRK, something new for GNB, yuss.

Four flavours of Raise and three variants of Troubadour are OK, but Rampart had to be unified? Weird.

---

Another oddity is actually Peloton. Which is the same skill on all Phys Range but each one has a unique animation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zairava

Yeah, while I would like to see DRK lean more into shielding I don't think Dark Mind is a good candidate for it.

---

The only other candidate is Oblation, but that would likely come at the cost of a stack.
I think a shield on Dark mind would be fine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

The only other candidate is Oblation, but that would likely come at the cost of a stack.
I think a shield on Dark mind would be fine.

---

Why would it come at the cost of a stack? Oblation with an extra 10% shield would not break the bank.

Really, no need to be so humble and offer up what little we have when Intervention, HoC and NF exist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Why would it come at the cost of a stack? Oblation with an extra 10% shield would not break the bank.

Really, no need to be so humble and offer up what little we have when Intervention, HoC and NF exist.

---

Its crazy because DRK players have expected so little from Devs that we dont even ask for big things anymore.

I hope they show DRK off last in the job action trailer because far too often we see what DRK gets and then all the other tanks get something way better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Derio

Its crazy because DRK players have expected so little from Devs that we dont even ask for big things anymore.

I hope they show DRK off last in the job action trailer because far too often we see what DRK gets and then all the other tanks get something way better.

---

I actually hope they show Dark Knight first so that way we can get the disappointment out of the way so we can focus on which tank we would rather play as if Dark Knight is just more Edge/Flood of Darkness/Shadow spam, more Bloodspiller spam, more frequent/longer Living Shadow/Salted Earth, and spamming more oGCDs like we already have now with our filler just being 1-2-3 spam with the occasional Bloodspiller every 30 seconds... and yes that IS my expectation for Dark Knight for 7.0, even though we could do WITHOUT the Summon Pet mechanic and DoT field that does nothing else for 1-3 consolidated combos that do bigger bursts of damage and/or have other effects like applying debuffs like DoTs/damage penalty/vulnerability up/healing down/slow+heavy while also buffing the Dark Knight with an HoT/damage up besides Darkside/damage reduction/healing up/haste... and speaking of Darkside I would LOVE to turn on Darkside OUTSIDE of combat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

I actually hope they show Dark Knight first so that way we can get the disappointment out of the way so we can focus on which tank we would rather play as if Dark Knight is just more Edge/Flood of Darkness/Shadow spam, more Bloodspiller spam, more frequent/longer Living Shadow/Salted Earth, and spamming more oGCDs like we already have now with our filler just being 1-2-3 spam with the occasional Bloodspiller every 30 seconds... and yes that IS my expectation for Dark Knight for 7.0, even though we could do WITHOUT the Summon Pet mechanic and DoT field that does nothing else for 1-3 consolidated combos that do bigger bursts of damage and/or have other effects like applying debuffs like DoTs/damage penalty/vulnerability up/healing down/slow+heavy while also buffing the Dark Knight with an HoT/damage up besides Darkside/damage reduction/healing up/haste... and speaking of Darkside I would LOVE to turn on Darkside OUTSIDE of combat.

---

The duality of DRK players right here, hopeful vs hopeless :)

I pray for the best for us.

So we lost Plunge and our Delirium got changed from spamming Blood Spiller to just having Enhanced 123 . . . . great.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Keagian

So we lost Plunge and our Delirium got changed from spamming Blood Spiller to just having Enhanced 123 . . . . great.

---

It's more braindead oversimplification.
No more gap closer planning, no more blood weapon weaving.
Our opener is going to feel boring as fuck with 3 less buttons too.
We lost more than we gained.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Keagian

So we lost Plunge and our Delirium got changed from spamming Blood Spiller to just having Enhanced 123 . . . . great.

---

Seems Gunbreaker also lost their gap closer in exchange for a generic dash in like DRK too.. but from the trailer it seems Pally and WAR get to keep damage on their gap closers...

RIP Plunge, I will miss you and the sound you made.
That dash doesn't even look like dash. We're teleporting now. Ugh.