Highly Notorious Monsters

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Originally Posted by Firon

Just wanna say Ein didn't come out for a long time so HNM's was a pretty big thing. Guess you was not around when it was 500+ camping Faf.

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First, you must have quoted the wrong thing because I did not even mention ein in that post. Second... what? Ein was out for a very large portion of FF11 but even if it wasnt im not getting your point here. Unless your trying to say that what... like 12-13+ years ago when mmo's were still small in gaming and FF11 was released without every bit of content they had 10yrs later somehow means an extension of the FF brand is obv going to exclude an alternative to HNM's just... because you personally hate HNM's and are grasping at straws.

I was there btw, loved it.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

1000th post in this thread, what do I win?

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a 27 hr wait HMN pop???? :p:p:p

(27 hr just to force you to wait/play at the strange hrs of the day)

jc

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Originally Posted by AttacKat

What gave you the idea I even played FF11??? And why should FF14 employed any problematic methods that exists in FF11? ARR is a newly developed engine in 2012/2013, not 2001.

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Because you have such a strong opinion against FF11 mechanics that you have apparently never seen. Just like how people trashed gear swaps but never played a game that used that mechanic before.

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Originally Posted by AttacKat

Then you can agree that time window is not required in ARR, therefore to bring it back will only reintroduce old issues that SE has been trying to solve in FF11, and not eliminate them as they can do in ARR.

And as I have said, that ARR does not need a time window for HNM, as other conditions can become the prerequisites to activate them. With the new server design and game engine, there is nothing to prevent ARR's game content to allow the players to play the game at the time of their choosing, and not some server resource allocation scheme to reduce server load.

Therefore, to do RL task while waiting for game play is an old issue that should not even exist, nor reintroduced, into ARR.

jc

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SE has never said in FF11 or FF14 that HNM's is a design flaw that they were trying to solve esp considering this thread had a dev say they were considering bringing them back this should be obvious.

Do you really believe HNM's... as in an open world event having timers, would in any way lower congestion/server load? You do understand its open world right... like people are there reguardless, your argument belongs in a pro-instance thread.

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Putting in A Realm Reborn HNMs that don't require time, skills and lucky to be defeated is no-sense. The word High is put there for a reason, and to make HNMs enjoyable all the three characteristics have to be present.

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No, just no.

High doesn't mean "must wait through hours of 30 minute spawn windows for the chance to fight". "High' only meant these were the strongest NMs- the most feared. Notorious implies dangerous, threatening, imposing, etc. "highly notorious" would mean "even more dangerous, threatening, imposing." Nowhere in the definition of either of those words is a wait time for anything described.

Having 30 minute spawn windows for several hours does NOT make HNMs more enjoyable. It makes them LESS enjoyable. A Highly Notorious Monster should by Highly Notorious because he's hard to beat- not just because you have to sit around doing nothing / busying yourself with trivialities for long periods of time just to have the privilege of facing the monster in battle.

If you like waiting, there are plenty of other things in the world that make you wait. Your video games shouldn't be one of them.

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SE has never said in FF11 or FF14 that HNM's is a design flaw that they were trying to solve esp considering this thread had a dev say they were considering bringing them back this should be obvious.

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Actually, that's not true, because they redesigned the 3 kings in an attempt to address the design flaws. I can't say the result was a huge improvement (mostly because it was too little too late), but that was the reasoning.

The only reason to WANT these wait times is to discourage anyone but no lifers from wanting to try the content, thereby making the rewards rare not becuase the content is challenging, but because only a few people have the time to waste. This is an unhealthy behavior and should not be encouraged.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

No, just no.

High doesn't mean "must wait through hours of 30 minute spawn windows for the chance to fight". "High' only meant these were the strongest NMs- the most feared. Notorious implies dangerous, threatening, imposing, etc. "highly notorious" would mean "even more dangerous, threatening, imposing." Nowhere in the definition of either of those words is a wait time for anything described.

Having 30 minute spawn windows for several hours does NOT make HNMs more enjoyable. It makes them LESS enjoyable. A Highly Notorious Monster should by Highly Notorious because he's hard to beat- not just because you have to sit around doing nothing / busying yourself with trivialities for long periods of time just to have the privilege of facing the monster in battle.

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Because obviously these new HNM's should be up 100% of the time, and why should we have to fight something for more than 5 seconds to get its drops, what a waste of my precious little butterfly time, hell, im the only person in the world with a job and a life and a family and your lucky im offering 5 seconds to kill these "notorious" monsters.

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Originally Posted by Jeronlmo

Because obviously these new HNM's should be up 100% of the time, and why should we have to fight something for more than 5 seconds to get its drops, what a waste of my precious little butterfly time, hell, im the only person in the world with a job and a life and a family and your lucky im offering 5 seconds to kill these "notorious" monsters.

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Yes, actually they should be up near 100% of the time- because they're hard to beat. I want deadly monsters that are almost sure to rape my face- not easy monsters that I have to camp all day to crush under my foot. I don't mind if the mob only pops say once or twice a day. I only mind that even if you know when it's "ready" to pop, you still have to devote up to 3or more hours of your game time to doing nothing before getting to fight. Playing the game = fun. Not playing the game = not fun.

You're just taking what I said and twisting it to absurdity, and not coming up with a compelling argument as to why 30 minute spawn windows make HNMs better. HNMs are fun in spite of the waiting, not because of it.

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Originally Posted by Jeronlmo

Because obviously these new HNM's should be up 100% of the time, and why should we have to fight something for more than 5 seconds to get its drops, what a waste of my precious little butterfly time, hell, im the only person in the world with a job and a life and a family and your lucky im offering 5 seconds to kill these "notorious" monsters.

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Had to read your quote 3 times before my sarcasm detector went off lol. I think the batteries are dying on it.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Yes, actually they should be up near 100% of the time- because they're hard to beat. I want deadly monsters that are almost sure to rape my face- not easy monsters that I have to camp all day to crush under my foot.

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So you honestly believe HNM's should be unkillable... AV-type HNM's? Ok, lets do it.

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Originally Posted by Lady

Had to read your quote 3 times before my sarcasm detector went off lol. I think the batteries are dying on it.

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lol, well you got it, thats what counts.

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Originally Posted by Jeronlmo

So you honestly believe HNM's should be unkillable... AV-type HNM's? Ok, lets do it.

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There's a difference between really hard and designed-to-be-impossible. That being said, today AV and PW are tough but not impossible HNMs. Neither of them has a pop timer or spawn windows. They only appear after beating a long chain of other NMs- in this case, the encounter is made rare without relying on timers- it takes a certain amount of time to beat all the stuff that lets you fight the HNM.

Content like VNMs and Zeni NMs were based on this premise- the hardest mob can only be fought once every so often because you have to fight other stuff to get to it. This is the best way to make an encounter rare- by tying it to other content that must be cleared first.

PS i understood the sarcasm- that's not why i made the last post.