Yoshi P talks about Warriors- from Producer Letter Live @ TGS

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Originally Posted by Amyas

Ah, I see, you just want to take the path of least resistance. There's nothing wrong with that. But don't down other people that want to take on the challenge. I have pld and war to 50, so far the only difference is less damage and more mitigation with less buttons to press, therefore to me, pld is easy mode tanking, war is hardmode. I really hope they don't change a thing, for the sake of all future Warriors.

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Your enthusiasm is great and choosing the hard option rather taking the easy one is commendable.

But because you choose to do this you are also making yourself more of a burden for the rest of your party.

I've done BC turn 1 - 5 as a warrior, then i did it as a paladin. Let me tell you that there is a substantial difference playing the two.

You say War is hardmode, but how do you play better when you just take more damage?

But i agree War is hardmode, for the party, if anything playing a warrior will increase the skills of your healers

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Originally Posted by Awake

I'm sorry but there is nothing hard about warriors...nothing at all.Unless you mean that it's harder for the healers to keep you up, then yes warriors are way hardcore;)

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Compared to Pld? Yeah, its much easier to do pld's single rotation while using 'Oh sh**' buttons appropriately compared to using war's and their cross class skills just to stay alive.

And the title of most disgusting, worthless, fallacy-abusing poster of the day goes to Amyas.

This forum is so full of terrible individuals. I can't believe the lengths some people will go to in order to try and prevent a "rival" class from getting buffed and/or simply hammering others over the head with their unhealthy, narcissistic egos.

"I am so great, I'm just the best in the whole world, let me see if I can get people on the internet to support this delusion! Preferably by twisting every single thing they say into some variation of how bad they are and how much better I am. That'll make people think I'm awesome."

Going to a video game forum and telling everybody that they're bad at the game does not somehow elevate you, nor does it impress anybody. I'm starting to get a sore neck from constantly having to shake my head in disbelief over the sheer number of people on this forum whose sole contribution is flawed arguments for why warriors should remain underpowered so that paladins can stay the top dawg. Almost always propagated by paladin players, strangely enough.

Nobody has ever been able to provide a valid, intelligent argument for why one tank class should be vastly superior to the other. I derive immense amusement from seeing daily claims of every warrior in the entire world simply being bad at the game and tens of thousands of players having failed to discover the secret to playing the class correctly. So utterly ridiculous. I can't believe people can bring themselves to voluntarily expose their stupidity in public like that.

There are three groups on this forum: paladins who don't want competition for the main tank role, people who don't care but think they sound awesome when they go "well my warrior is awesome, you're just not as good as me," and then people who know better and have provided actual data, arguments and test results that universally prove the same thing.

You're missinterpreting poor design with challenging game play.
There is absolutely nothing hard in playing WAR, you're just hindering your group on every decent content.

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Originally Posted by Amyas

The devs themselves has said it takes a higher level of skill to play war.

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and devs can be wrong.

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I really hope they don't change a thing, for the sake of all future Warriors.

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i hope you all like ifrit garuda amdapor keep and wanderer's palace

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Originally Posted by Wangstrong

And the title of most disgusting, fallacy-abusing, worthless poster of the day goes to Amyas.

This forum is so full of terrible individuals. I can't believe the lengths some people will go to in order to try and prevent a "rival" class from getting buffed and/or simply hammering others over the head with their unhealthy, narcissistic egos.

Going to a video game forum and telling everybody that they're bad at the game does not somehow elevate you, nor does it impress anybody.

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I'm sorry you feel that way, but I stand behind my opinion that War is fine as is, as long as the person behind it and their group is up to par. :(

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Originally Posted by Wangstrong

"I am so great, I'm just the best in the whole world, let me see if I can get people on the internet to confirm this delusion! Preferably by twisting every single thing they say into some variation of how bad they are and how much better I am. That'll make people think I'm awesome."

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the best part is that they havent done any endgame yet

and whenever you bring this up, you get accused of poopsocking to endgame

whatever that means

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Originally Posted by Delorean

the best part is that they havent done any endgame yet

and whenever you bring this up, you get accused of poopsocking to endgame

whatever that means

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The implication is that you stayed at your PC for prolonged period of time and took zero bathroom breaks (hence you poop in a sock to not cause a mess). Not like getting a job to 50 takes a week at most even playing only 2-3 hours per day.

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Originally Posted by Amyas

Ah, I see, you just want to take the path of least resistance. There's nothing wrong with that. But don't down other people that want to take on the challenge. I have pld and war to 50, so far the only difference is less damage and more mitigation with less buttons to press, therefore to me, pld is easymode tanking, war is hardmode. I really hope they don't change a thing, for the sake of all future Warriors.

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To take on the challenge is to play a healer healing a warrior in an end game setting (BCoB), and is not about you executing a so called 'hard' rotation on warrior, you sir have no idea what you talking about.

One thing for sure, this turned into a shitposting thread.
Congratulations everyone.

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Originally Posted by Wangstrong

There are three groups on this forum: paladins who don't want competition for the main tank role, people who don't care but think they sound awesome when they go "well my warrior is awesome, you're just not as good as me," and then people who know better and have provided actual data, arguments and test results that universally prove the same thing.

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Could I use this for a signature?

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Originally Posted by Delorean

the best part is that they havent done any endgame yet

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AK, Ifrit and Garuda aren't endgame content to you? Has to just be Coil and HM Titan?

Okie doke then. Creepin' crippled christ on toast.
Oh and the poopsocking thing is about the folks with a xx 2013 start date and a lvl 50 char, while they're complaining about 'endgame'. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Guys I have no idea why everyone is saying warrior is broken. I just did Brayflox and we only died 6 times.

Seriously though low level warrior feels great. I love it. But I do see where it falls apart, such a shame. I know personally I'm working on crafting to be able to try out some things that way, as materia might be a big help for the class. Of course this is really expensive and highly limits what can be done as after i70 gear I don't know if there is anything else with slots.

Also it takes a really short amount of time to go from 1-50 in this game playing normally and end game content is anything that requires you to get out of AF gear (though for a warrior that may be a lot of things).

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Originally Posted by antiviolence

Could I use this for a signature?

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Sure.



Asdfasdfsa

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Originally Posted by Amyas

AK, Ifrit and Garuda aren't endgame content to you?

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Nope. Not at all.
It's easy as fck and an ape can do it.
Maybe you felt that it was hard because you're a WAR and a probably a bad one on top of that, but this is extremely easy.
Lv 50 =/= end game.

1) "Because you're acting as if PLD and WAR have the same base damage before multipliers, which they do not. A WAR has a fair deal *less* damage pre-multipliers because PLD has Circle of Scorn and Spirits Within." Do you even consider the stats of Shield Oath?

2) "PLD (without WAR) & PLD (with WAR)"
Your calculation is weird, explain to me what's the meaning of PLD(with WAR) Are you referring Cross Class Skills? And what skills from WAR that a PLD will use?

3) "Tank stances double enmity generation. Crits generate an extra 50% enmity, so the crit bonuses are 50% higher." Please give us more details/information regards this.

4) "Maim is a 20% increase in damage on a permanent basis. Storm's Eye is a ~11.1% (1/.9) increase in damage dealt, but it applies to both PLD and WAR if there is a WAR present." You expect a PLD to equip with heavy swing + Maim just to get a 20% more damage?

There's still a lot questions in your post.

There's none.
PLD with WAR is well.. what it is. A PLD hiting the same mob as a WAR. As said in your final point, Storm's Eye works for both PLD and WAR since it's applied on the boss and not a buff on the WAR.
PLD Can't equipe Maim, they would if they could.

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

Either Warriors scale way better with gear (like, get way bigger advantages with gearing up because PLD is on a % mitigation where Warrior uses hard numbers) and they are testing with better gear, or they need to share with us how to play this class.

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This is pretty much impossible simply due to WAR and PLD sharing the same gear. Tank gear in ARR is universal, so unless you split tanking gear between WAR and PLD gear (this would make the drop system even more random than it currently is) you're not going to see this massive divergence caused by gear.

The divergence between PLD and WAR is in the jobs' mechanics and how they deal with incoming damage.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

This is pretty much impossible simply due to WAR and PLD sharing the same gear. Tank gear in ARR is universal, so unless you split tanking gear between WAR and PLD gear (this would make the drop system even more random than it currently is) you're not going to see this massive divergence caused by gear.

The divergence between PLD and WAR is in the jobs' mechanics and how they deal with incoming damage.

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You missed his point, which was that WAR could take better advantage over gear than PLD, the same gear than PLD.
This if very possible when you compare static bonus (+100 damage per hit) versus scaling bonus (+10% damage).
Does it apply to PLD vs WAR? I've no clue.

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Originally Posted by Guammasa

As it is, Warriors have many tools available but none of them serve as a strong enough mechanic to equate to a Paladin's ability to "take a hit" which seems to be the concept thrown around a lot. If there is balance, without a healer both tanks should die at the exact same point in a fight.
Personally, last I checked, both jobs are tanks and a tank's role is to take a hit. True they're designed to take that hit differently, which is great, but one mitigates that hit with a much more noticeable degree and that is what matters to healers. So, please stop the "better at taking a hit" nonsense. If one is better then the two are not balanced. They should equally take that hit and recover or mitigate the damage through different means.

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I think this represents the best argument in the entirety of the thread.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

This is pretty much impossible simply due to WAR and PLD sharing the same gear. Tank gear in ARR is universal, so unless you split tanking gear between WAR and PLD gear.

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AF2 gear for both, except possibly PLD's boots, are the best in the game and those sets can't be shared. With just AF2 gear, from what I've checked, WAR gets more determination and skill speed; whereas PLD gets higher crit rate and parry. The determination difference is actually quite large (+39 vs +17), but I'm not sure if that means much as I don't know how determination points work in terms of health regen potency. Also, with PLD in Heavy Allagan Flanchards the difference is slightly less (+39 vs +28)... but if you give WAR them too you end up with another big difference (+50 vs +28).

These calcs are also w/ no jewels, no weapon and Hero's Belt of Fending since I was just trying to base it purely on head/body/waist/legs/feet at max.

Just wanted to throw that out there since I never see people talking about WAR and PLD at max gear. Dunno if it makes any real difference but maybe it's worth sharing. :B

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Originally Posted by Kitru

Tank stances double enmity generation. Crits generate an extra 50% enmity, so the crit bonuses are 50% higher.

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More tests that others have done that you might want to adjust for in your calculations.

Ventus Invictus tested the shield oath at the end of this post http://ventusinvictus.blogspot.sg/20...din-guide.html , I recall reading warriors reporting same observations on defiance on his reddit posts. Apparently SE changed it in P4, so more testing required? If the enmity bonus on shield oath is still the same as defiance, shouldn't affect your conclusion.

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...flash_testing/ by Kestial. "Critical hits do not generate additional enmity besides their higher damage." Have not seen any later tests on this.

Thanks for putting the numbers for comparison.

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Originally Posted by Eightbit

Also it takes a really short amount of time to go from 1-50 in this game playing normally and end game content is anything that requires you to get out of AF gear (though for a warrior that may be a lot of things).

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The reason is when you get to endgame, the bar raises significantly and the endgame gear provided by Tokens does not actually upgrade WAR to the level of the endgame content. So people think that WAR is broken when they've geared wrong.

Not only have they geared wrong but they may have specced wrong and may be playing incorrectly.

It could be anything, but yeah I'm playing WAR as a Critical hit Buffed tank and I deal heavier damage than I take, in fact, when I'm holding Wrath V and I use Internal release the amount of critical hits likely hits the 40% range, but I need to test some more.

If you're a WAR, you need to do two things, deal a lot of damage in a short period of time and heal up a lot of HP and deal a lot of damage.

Because people's IBs are not critting, their damage is not critting, the think that WAR is weak and squishy. But I think... WAR is "very strong".

But to get "very strong'. you have to spend a lot of gil and effort and people think that WAR should be like PLD, all easy mode with 0 effort.

But it's not. IF you want to deal 1.5 more damage as WAR to get it ready for endgame to the point that it's a MT in coil you have to spend gil you have to craft and you have to do all he uncool things that have little to do with dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

This is pretty much impossible simply due to WAR and PLD sharing the same gear. Tank gear in ARR is universal, so unless you split tanking gear between WAR and PLD gear (this would make the drop system even more random than it currently is) you're not going to see this massive divergence caused by gear.

The divergence between PLD and WAR is in the jobs' mechanics and how they deal with incoming damage.

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You can use Darklight Armor with with WAR but I don't recommend any other Darklight. Darksteel HQ is far better.

Hiir, I'll bite. *If* everything that you said is 100% accurate (and you've btw changed your stance on how to tank as a warrior 4 times in the last month: stack vit, no stack str, no stack skill speed, no stack CRIT), how is it not an amazing design flaw for Warriors to be the one class in the game that needs..to NOT use their Relic, NOT use DL, NOT use Allagan gear that is supposed to be designed FOR them? If everything you said is accurate, Warriors have the worst itemization in the game, and that needs to absolutely be fixed, because every piece of gear they are working for is detrimental to them.

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Originally Posted by Hitokirinomad

Hiir, I'll bite. *If* everything that you said is 100% accurate (and you've btw changed your stance on how to tank as a warrior 4 times in the last month: stack vit, no stack str, no stack skill speed, no stack CRIT), how is it not an amazing design flaw for Warriors to be the one class in the game that needs..to NOT use their Relic, NOT use DL, NOT use Allagan gear that is supposed to be designed FOR them? If everything you said is accurate, Warriors have the worst itemization in the game, and that needs to absolutely be fixed, because every piece of gear they are working for is detrimental to them.

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Hey I'm allowed to change position as I experiment. Stacking VIT was something I said early on... and it worked... for a while. And then it didn't. >.<

Stacking STR worked... some what... but... Not enough.

Skill Speed also worked. But. It's too DIFFICULT!

Stacking Crit though...

https://i.imgur.com/4YrKI4T.png

DPS is 4th column from total. Crit Rate is 4th column from the end. (Average Crit Rate here is 24.2875)

I think I'm on the right track. Yoshi P says to do research so Research I do! ^o^

I don't think WARs were meant to be played with traditional Tank gear. It makes 0 sense that gear for PLD is good gear for WAR when they're played and implemented so differently.

I mean if blocking and evasion and defense is a PLDs job and DPS and self cures and damage dealing is WARs job, then why in the world would you wear the same gear as a PLD. It makes no sense.

You can wear SOME of the same gear but not ALL of your pieces will be the same.

For example. I would Definitely prefer the Warrior's Burgeonet to the Allagan Helm because the Allagan Helm seems to be geared toward Parry and the Warrior's Burgeonet has two stats built toward DD which is Skill Speed Determination. I think Heavy Darklight Armor is OK for a WAR but ideally crafted gear is better.

I fully believe that as a WAR I benefit from multiple gear sets for multiple situations.

Or instead of spending ridiculous amounts of money gearing up when every other class can obtain their gear through normal means... you can play a paladin with a fraction of the effort to accomplish the exact same things.
That's not even assuming what you claim about stats/itemization being correct, which has not been proven.

Aren't you pretty much reinforcing the discrepancy of pal vs war? If investing more in gear is your equalizing element then that's not a solution for balance at all. It just points out how lopsided it really is.

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Not only have they geared wrong but they may have specced wrong and may be playing incorrectly.

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Talk about giving the stick to be beaten with.

I'm really curious, with you str/crit stacking, how much hp do you have ? how much parry ? how much accuracy ?
It seems to me that you have a great farming gear for extremely easy content, but I'm pretty sure this isn't viabe at all for Coil.

What parser are you using ? Doesn't look like FFXIVAPP who's pretty crappy, I'd like to confront some numbers when I have the time for that.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

I don't think WARs were meant to be played with traditional Tank gear. It makes 0 sense that gear for PLD is good gear for WAR when they're played and implemented so differently.

I mean if blocking and evasion and defense is a PLDs job and DPS and self cures and damage dealing is WARs job, then why in the world would you wear the same gear as a PLD. It makes no sense.

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You kind of argue my point. You have to NOT use gear that is TANK specific, or WAR specific. **You put away your relic +1.** If that is OPTIMAL, then it's not research Warriors need to do. It's broken itemization that needs to get fixed. Again, this is me assuming that you are correct, which is accepting your argument over...math.

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Originally Posted by Hitokirinomad

You kind of argue my point. You have to NOT use gear that is TANK specific, or WAR specific. **You put away your relic +1.** If that is OPTIMAL, then it's not research Warriors need to do. It's broken itemization that needs to get fixed. Again, this is me assuming that you are correct, which is accepting your argument over...math.

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I have hard time explaining myself. I put away the Bravura +1 BEFORE I melded... Read the post... Like seriously read it.

Without actually spending any gil or time or effort, I raised my Crit rate considerably... Once I saw results I went and melded. I think you guys are so anti-WAR at this point that when I talk you don't actually hear what I say but latch on to the first remotely negative aspect, stop reading and then respond. Without actually really spending any gil I raised my Crit Rate to see if it might work before I went and spent more.

Common sense people.

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Originally Posted by Terendal

Aren't you pretty much reinforcing the discrepancy of pal vs war? If investing more in gear is your equalizing element then that's not a solution for balance at all. It just points out how lopsided it really is.

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Yoshi P said "WAR is harder to play. It's more technical"

So yeah there's a discrepency. If you have issues investing in gear to get your WAR ready for endgame then yeah you will have issues.

WAR with dungeon drops and no crafted gear is not really going to get your foot in the door with coil...

Crafted gear is way better for WAR than drops. At best you'll be half-baked WAR tank which is what people are complaining about.

You have to do a bit more to get your WAR tank ready for endgame. Yoshi P says people think that PLD is better now, but they'll see soon.

I don't think we've actually seen what WAR can do. We've been too busy muddling around looking for the answers that were actually spelled out to us in the patch notes. (Well, some of us have been muddling around. Most people playing WAR cried and switched to PLD.) But I think people will be switching back.

I'm not changing my main. I think I'm falling in love with WAR all over again.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Common sense people.

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That's hilarious coming from you, the most frequent purveyor of nonsense and stupid ideas on this forum.

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WAR with dungeon drops and no crafted gear is not really going to get your foot in the door with coil...

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How about you answer my question from last page instead of saying stuff like that ?
Unless you're investing millions and millions and millions to meld and over meld with grade IV, I hardly see how you would be able to stack crit/str and have enough vit/acc (and parry ?) to be able to survive in coil.

Hey, at the very least instead of crying like a baby Hiir's trying to figure out what works, while you other guys are just doing a very bad job at crying until what you want happens.
You're not helping the devs the least bit either, if you want changes to WAR you gotta show how it needs those changes, even if Hiir's efforts are utterly useless in the end and not even all the crazy ideas and effort will get WAR to stack up to what you want, they will at the very least show the devs where they problems lie.
(and to note you want WAR to be better than PLD, not equal. And no, a higher skill requirement is in no way related to a better output, noob tubes are good for games, everyone needs them as they grow, and PLD is the tanking noob tube)

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

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There's something fundamentally wrong when people white knight. Most of these people have no idea what 'good design' really means. or even where to begin at testing a design.

As with most things, there is not one thing wrong with WAR. it is a plethora of things that all add p. we can bring them up one at a time and argue them to death, but being 2% lower here, 1% lower there, etc. eventually all adds up to us being 15% less effective overall.

1) Yoshi has said to 'do more research' but this is a problem in and of itself. The job is not intuitive. we've been theory crafting for nearly a month now. If we haven't found it, it's not likely we will. if the solution is really to mix-and-match tank/DD gear to tank this is a design problem. no-one in their right mind would go 'oh, I want to tank. Better put on this scale mail that has no defense and a ton of STR'

2) Scaling is also an issue. Paladin scales with incoming damage for mitigation. it has no self heals. it has no way to recover itself. its only form of mitigation is to reduce incoming damage. this means the bigger the mob, the more effective you become. Warriors mitigation scales with damage. this means the smaller the mob, the more effective you become. This makes it appear that war should be an OT and pld should be a MT

3) Warrior has a lack of abilities to make it an effective OT. the design and interpretation point that war should be OT. we don't have an 'on the fly' AoE enmity generator that PLD does. all of our AoE abilities take setup time. we need all mobs in front of us for Overpower. we need wrath for steel cyclone. this means our AoE abilities are situational. this means our ability to off tank is situational. this indicates that War should be a MT afterall, not an OT. so now we have conflicting data.

4) War generates more Single target enmity. This also indicates that war should be an off tank. when killing adds, you want as much burst as possible. this means you need bigger enmity spikes to help control them. this indicates that war should be an OT again.

5) It is believed that WAR should do more damage than PLD when tanking. we make up for our lack of mitigation by killing things faster. Unfortunately, when trying, WAR doesn't do more damage than pld. We have posts here that do the math. but the reality is this: a lot of your damage comes from Auto Attacks. PLD has an ability that improves their auto attack potency by 50. this is not a small amount. WAR has an ability that further enhances this. so to maximize damage output, you need war as a MT, and pld as an OT so they can use shield oath. AGAIN indicating that war should be MT.

Some might argue that 'this just means that WAR can do both. l2p' Yeah. WAR should be able to do both. just as well as pld. the problem is it can't. we lack the tools to do either one as effectively as the other tank class.

These are only a few of the things wrong with WAR atm. we haven't even touched the risk/reward, combo priority, party synergy, or the fact it's apparently meant to be a 'show off' class. Pro-tip: no-one likes a show off.

If you still think war is "Fine as is" then you lack the insight to see the bigger picture.

WAR is a horrible offtank.



When I offtank WAR I'm so awkward. I want to DD... but I can't DD without taking hate. When I take hate, I can't give it back.

It pisses off the MT so much and completely screw things over.

When I'm fighting multiple adds my DPS actually goes down because I'm using AoEs and Flash (which does no damage) while trying to DPS single target and kill it before they kill me. (You can't AoE and self heal. You can't AoE and spike damage. WAR is actually pretty weak for many adds. You have to work hard.)

WAR has been a superiour MT for single target since Beta 3 when I used to run in to PLDs tanking Cancer and take hate in a single combo using Unchained. All the provokes in the world couldn't give it back. To this day, when a PLD says he wants to MT, I just groan. Please go back on stun duty so I can turn a 15 min fight into a 10 minute one.

Now I'm a MT for single target that actually does damage on par with a Dragoon with a relic spear. And I have no troubles staying up.

Before I had issues with WAR but I'm working those out. Before I couldn't heal enough on IB... then I couldn't do enough damage... but in one fell swoop I feel like I've begun to solve both those problems.

The only reason it took people a month to figure these things out is because they don't think outside the box and it takes time to see sometimes what's right in front of you. And VIT stacking worked for a while. I got past Titan on a VIT stacked WAR, but the damage kept getting greater while my DPS and Self heals kept getting smaller. I had reached a peak with Vit Stacking WEEKS ago.

I thought that if I just added more STR it would work. And it did work, but not enough. I then tried to change combos to max my DPS and tried to max Self heals. And that worked, but not enough. I was still sometimes hitting Inner Beast for not enough... But I kept seeing these golden glimpses of Inner Beasts that hit close to 3k and I kept tried to get it up there. Come on 3k!

But I never made it.

So I had to go back again... Okay, well, maybe if I try to use Skill speed and double my Inner Beast... and while that worked sometimes, under the randomized testing of Duty Finder that fizzled too. And I could only do it with Berserk up for max healing not enough.

But I didn't give up and I'm not giving up until I'm figuring out WHAT exactly are they doing. I wish they would just out and tell me but what's the fun of that? I guess in a few months someone will come up with a more "Numbers-and-math" version of my conclusions.

Now with Crit Rate I'm seeing much higher numbers in DPS, I actually do not see a drop in DPS when I hold WRATH V because now that my Crit Rate is already buffed, Wrath V helps all the more! Meaning that I'm DPS'ing more and I'm getting healed for 15% more.

I mean it's great. I can use Unchained and then Infuriate and then Internal Release... omg or even Berserk... combined with Fracture.

Hmm Hm... Yes, I need to tank Titan again. Need a competant party to survive to heart Phase... Could I hit 190 DPS on the heart?

Oh rapture. ^__^

Oh come on.
I want to take you serioursly, I really do.
But this last post. wow. Do you even think before writing this shit down ?

Hiir, you're still missing the point. If your entire theory is 100% accurate warriors are STILL not balanced due to their itemization taking them in a direction completely at odds with the normal tiered gear progression. If the answer to warriors is 'build crit rate, get rid of wrath regularly', then endgame warrior plate that you obtain with the SAME TOKENS AS EVERYONE ELSE should prioritize Str > Crit > Vit > Skillspeed, because having a large health pool is not the mitigation, it's being able to refill that health pool, which requires 1) big crits, and 2) lots of crits. If Philosophy > Mythology > Allagan gear does not do this, then the issue is broken itemization if your conjecture is correct. Materia melds should not be required to get to these levels of crit, unless all other classes require materia melds for their SECONDARY stat to be balanced.


The increased difficulty in warrior tanking versus paladin tanking should be (in a decent design) that the warrior requires a more active use of a toolset to achieve similar results (staying alive + holding hate + maximizing personal dps). As it is, even you are not saying a warrior can achieve the same results as an equally geared and skilled paladin, you are saying a massively overgeared warrior with more skill, can *almost* equal a paladin at the high edge of content.

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Originally Posted by Hitokirinomad

Hiir, you're still missing the point. If your entire theory is 100% accurate warriors are STILL not balanced due to their itemization taking them in a direction completely at odds with the normal tiered gear progression. If the answer to warriors is 'build crit rate, get rid of wrath regularly', then endgame warrior plate that you obtain with the SAME TOKENS AS EVERYONE ELSE should prioritize Str > Crit > Vit > Skillspeed, because having a large health pool is not the mitigation, it's being able to refill that health pool, which requires 1) big crits, and 2) lots of crits. If Philosophy > Mythology > Allagan gear does not do this, then the issue is broken itemization if your conjecture is correct. Materia melds should not be required to get to these levels of crit, unless all other classes require materia melds for their SECONDARY stat to be balanced.


The increased difficulty in warrior tanking versus paladin tanking should be (in a decent design) that the warrior requires a more active use of a toolset to achieve similar results (staying alive + holding hate + maximizing personal dps). As it is, even you are not saying a warrior can achieve the same results and an equally geared and skilled paladin, you are saying a massively overgeared warrior with more skill, can *almost* equal a paladin at the high edge of content.

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Except I'm not massively Overgeared (Except my Relic) I'm still in level 70 gear.

If you think that getting Darksteel melds is too difficult then I really feel for you in later aspects of the game when crafting recipes drop from dungeons instead of actual gear. lol

I think that my experiences in 1.0 with sheer frustrating difficulty calloused my tolerance for the pain and suffering that playing WAR in 2.0 might bring. And perhaps Yoshi P is the same way.

If you're coming from another game where you just grab gear from dungeons or grab gear from tokens put it on and go, then I suppose that this is quite a shock for you. But yeah, Yoshi wants crafting to remain relevant. The best gear in the game is High Quality Crafted, even for mage jobs.

And you can get good gear for WAR using tokens. Most of the gear I wear currently is Darklight. With the exception of the bigger pieces and some melds I made.

It has taken some time for WARs to be ready and that's okay. To be honest, though, it really hasn't taken that much time. And the couple mil I spent testing and stuff is really NOTHING compared to the gil and the hours I had to spend to get my Thyrus in 1.0.

EDIT: I should say that the best gear in the game is high quality crafted with the exception of Allagan and AF2... but really I am never getting rid of my Darksteel until the next crafting recipes (Level 80 crafting???) is released.

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Originally Posted by Kaalan

Oh come on.
I want to take you serioursly, I really do.
But this last post. wow. Do you even think before writing this shit down ?

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Stop bashing a positive Warrior? Im having no issues as he says. I feel i am superior to PLD When i tank as well. Just because you dont like the job and do horrible at it means the rest of us proper warriors have to suffer?

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

AF2 gear for both, except possibly PLD's boots, are the best in the game and those sets can't be shared. With just AF2 gear, from what I've checked, WAR gets more determination and skill speed; whereas PLD gets higher crit rate and parry.

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This brings up other questions. Mainly how worthwhile stacking Skill Speed would be. I've mentioned one potential help to WAR being increasing frequency of attacks, but I figure it would require an obscene amount of Skill Speed to reduce the GCD to a point where you could spam attacks to heal yourself to counteract damage (not taking unlucky crits and heavy auto-attacks into account). There's also TP regeneration to keep in mind, as lower GCDs means you're using TP faster than it replenishes (though I guess all that does is make you extremely dependent on bards).

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Originally Posted by Ketsufuma

Stop bashing a positive Warrior? Im having no issues as he says. I feel i am superior to PLD When i tank as well. Just because you dont like the job and do horrible at it means the rest of us proper warriors have to suffer?

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This post is laced with "all I've done are AK runs and CM runs.", you truly think you are superior? How about actually hitting content that shows the huge differences between PLD and WAR aka Titan HM.