Do you think that Picto needs a nerf?

Y'all gotta remember there were half as many jobs back then as there are now. Mechanics that were handled by the BRD in ARR turned into phys ranged mechanics when MCH was added, turned into ranged mechanics as the rest of the ranged jobs were added And players got better at playing casters as well as the developers got better at designing casters. The bell has been rung.

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Originally Posted by mallleable

Y'all gotta remember there were half as many jobs back then as there are now. Mechanics that were handled by the BRD in ARR turned into phys ranged mechanics when MCH was added, turned into ranged mechanics as the rest of the ranged jobs were added And players got better at playing casters as well as the developers got better at designing casters. The bell has been rung.

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I mean in the nicest way possible I don’t care that adding more jobs makes their job of unique fights harder because constantly adding new jobs is their own self inflicted rule

If they can’t maintain quality between all the jobs then there is too many jobs it’s a simple as that

Changing the fight design doesn't alter the fact that PCT is fundamentally overpowered. It just becomes more overpowered or less overpowered depending on whether the fight favors burst/downtime or not.

I agree that they're wasting their time adding new jobs if they have one job dominate the others like this. They need a fresh job design team at this point.

Picto isn't just OP in Ultimate and Savage, whenever I get one in dungeon of any level for example I know the mobs are just going to melt. Here are the speed statistics for endgame dungeons:

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/57

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Originally Posted by Realfoxy

A reversion to earlier designs where you are a lot more fixed in position could mean a greater reliance on begging for caster relative strats. Which is great fun in a static, it's fun planning around that kind of constraint, but doesn't play as well in PF.

I've always maintained that in ShB and Endwalker, 100% casting uptime has always been in your own hands. I'm not sure I'd like a raid tier where that isn't the case.

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I don't recall many "adjust to the caster" problems before ShB/EW personally, but perhaps there is specific cases I just don't remember about. There has always been cases where trying to accomodate the caster better has been a thing (and every time far from mandatory), and it's not been any different since forever. The whole difference isn't about accommodating the caster, it's what you're busy doing as a caster. Today casters spend 80% of their time caring about how to keep casting while dancing. In spite of their total lack of mobility, casters of yesterdays barely cared about that. It wasn't just what pve was about. Just look at HW BRD or MCH, which were actually less mobile than any modern job. They rarely had problems about moving either, because it was just rarely a concern.

Casting uptime has always been in your own hands.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I mean in the nicest way possible I don’t care that adding more jobs makes their job of unique fights harder because constantly adding new jobs is their own self inflicted rule

If they can’t maintain quality between all the jobs then there is too many jobs it’s a simple as that

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Yeah plus frankly I want better jobs, not more jobs.

We got so many jobs, but they're so similar and so shallow in their gameplay. They ought to go 1-2 expansions without new jobs, instead focus on 2-3 total reworks each major patch until they're done with all of them!

honestly I wouldn't mind if they stop adding job and just focus on what we have make more skills more difference the more they keep adding the more they look like each other really with just the weapon and main mechanic nothing else really change

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Originally Posted by Nero-Voidstails

honestly I wouldn't mind if they stop adding job and just focus on what we have make more skills more difference the more they keep adding the more they look like each other really with just the weapon and main mechanic nothing else really change

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Yeah I've said it for a while myself that there is enough different jobs already. Rather spend time to make them play more uniquely and break the 2 minute meta.

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Originally Posted by Shyxx

Picto isn't just OP in Ultimate and Savage, whenever I get one in dungeon of any level for example I know the mobs are just going to melt. Here are the speed statistics for endgame dungeons:

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/57

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The job's also really good in dungeons because there's downtime between packs and bosses. It's pretty much the exact same reason it's so strong in Ultimates

Ninja is good in dungeons because they're downtime to reset ninjutsu.
PCT is outright broken in dungeons.

Reminding people that PCT in Savage is still OP, since savage is currently not as optimized as 7.05 groups were doing, while BLM looks like it's on top, PCT 7.05 numbers show just how far ahead it is over current BLM.

Also, mobility, easy class, defensives etc. Same as previous arguments.

Been thinking about this again, but PCT heavily influences the output of any job with raid buffs because of how burst-heavy it is on top of having its own raid buff. I think the presence of a single job being capable of introducing a ton of variance into a lot of jobs' output does create a bit of a balance issue everywhere.

That said, I think PCT being OP right now's more a symptom of the 2 minute meta, and while some flat potency adjustments may be needed, it wouldn't help the game much to nerf PCT by flattening the job's base damage profile or buffing the bursts of jobs to have a similar damage profile, the latter of which is what they've been doing. They should be focusing more on nerfing raid buffs and going back to varying their recasts to fix it.

PCT being overpowered is a problem in and of itself.

Players aren't going to sit around and wait in the hope that the entire game design philosophy around burst and raid buffs magically changes just to accommodate PCT. PCT needs to be nerfed now, not next expansion.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

PCT being overpowered is a problem in and of itself.

Players aren't going to sit around and wait in the hope that the entire game design philosophy around burst and raid buffs magically changes just to accommodate PCT. PCT needs to be nerfed now, not next expansion.

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In fact it needed to be nerfed on/around release to make further balance-changes not be as unhinged as they have been. The entire expansion is way too easy entirely because of this rabid strife to get everyone as powerful as Picto, which is of course largely a futile quest as Picto just needs an 8%-10% nerf.

I mean I agree it needed a nerf yesterday, the better part of the debate is on how. Weaken its burst, or give it flat nerfs across the board? And should they just be potency nerfs, or should it include other changes, like reducing the cast time on motif painting, or making starry muse a personal buff?

Whatever they do right now I expect to affect its direction for years given how much they refuse to undo changes or let certain jobs ever see the limelight again.

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Originally Posted by Azurarok

I mean I agree it needed a nerf yesterday, the better part of the debate is on how.

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I mean back at the start of the expansion I would have said just nerf all potencies by ~8%, then maybe go another 1% or 2% after evaluating. All, across the board. But that was before we had ultimate and chaotic, and more importantly before they tried to crazy over-buff everybody else in a, mostly vain, attempt to make them as unbalanced as Picto is.

So now it's a bit tricky. My favorite solution is still to apply a 5%-6% across the board nerf to all damage output to all jobs (since ~all PvE is way too easy right now) and another 5% or so to Picto, then see whether Picto needs another 1%-2% after that.

A more specialized solution would be to specifically target the burst, without targeting the liking of downtime. This would ideally leave Picto inherently slightly OP when there is downtime, but slightly UP when there is absolutely none and no quiet moments ever, meaning it has identity. Which is something all jobs could use a lot more of, tbh. What I'd do is nerf the burst skills by ~10%, and maybe reduce the haste from Starry by 5% on top.

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Originally Posted by Azurarok

I mean I agree it needed a nerf yesterday, the better part of the debate is on how. Weaken its burst, or give it flat nerfs across the board? And should they just be potency nerfs, or should it include other changes, like reducing the cast time on motif painting, or making starry muse a personal buff?

Whatever they do right now I expect to affect its direction for years given how much they refuse to undo changes or let certain jobs ever see the limelight again.

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Personally I'd shift damage from motifs into filler, then tone back the burst by nerfing the raidbuff from Starry (the party buff, not the personal buff). Possibly removing the party buff entirely.

This would make the job far less of a 2min burst monster while not nerfing it as much in full uptime fights.