Review of 6.3 Story Content

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Originally Posted by Graeham

( a whole lot of stuff )

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Ill say it...I always look foreword to your posts
They very often make no sense and are hard to read.....but you bring a level of entertainment these threads need
Thank You for your service~

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Originally Posted by Knot_D

Meanwhile on Island Sanctuary rank 12 quest (Spoiler):

Cirina and Sadu visiting our island and purposely not inviting "little sun". I feel like Magnai turned them into lesbian...

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I was unaware that Island Sanctuary even had a story attached to it but after seeing the accursed femroe gawk at Nophica like in the screenshot in the first post I should not be surprised. Seems like wlw is all ok but mlm is still largely shafted in this game, funny that. I shouldn't have to point out how ridiculous and unpalatable "x gender gave me relationship issues so I'm going to go date y gender instead" writing is. I take offense to any writing that plays off such notions, especially when the average person would choose the Magnai's of the world over the insufferable Y'shtolas or unhinged Sadus.

Only a certain subset of FFXIV players seem to think otherwise, but those same individuals often say all sorts of outlandish things that have even been parroted by official accounts such as the whole stepping thing. I simply do not share these submissive tendencies, especially those projected all over FFXIV twitter by mostly (straight?) men. Anyone who says stuff like that cannot be taken seriously and I do not care for their input when it comes to writing male characters, though the pathetic state of the male cast could probably be more attributed to certain types who are used to talking over men who don't push back against them. I'd like to see more entertaining stories led by characters who "happen to be XYZ" rather than having such features be pushed to the forefront instead of actual character development.

We deserve more than superficial "representation" nonsense.

Still finding it awkward that in two patches we casually ran through the four fiends. Last patch was so hype, and now this one is just... empty. It's not the worst because there's always the possibility that this is just build up for something big post Golbez, especially since we basically dragged the scions back together.

I can tolerate this for now if it's just a small part of the bigger picture later on, but there better be a much bigger picture considering the note EW ended on.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

I can understand someone liking Endwalker (even if I would vehemently disagree with that opinion) but wow this community's standards are low if it can't imagine any better possible way to end the story. Either that or it lacks imagination.

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I can't represent the whole community. As a single fan of fantasy stories and tabletop RPG, there is much more than imagination.
You need to have long term vision and a message, you need to know how to instigate and create an appropriate atmosphere to make people care about your characters.
If at some point of your life you caught yourself thinking about any FFXIV character, they won. Not every writer is capable to do it, that is why we have so many different styles of lore.

Again, considering the context of FFXIV, the lore from ARR to Endwalker was good enough to create features, content, environments and interests.
I believe the real problem here is the fact that some people felt robbed or taken as a fool when we finally discovered the source of the calamity or final days after so many years theorizing.
Personally, i enjoy some surprises or twist when they keep the universe integrity. The fact that they decided to finally end the story instead of milking it forever says enough about their confidence.

There was no long term vision or consistent message though. The writers changed for the worse in the end and now they change every patch and from the looks of it they're all at odds with each other.

Again, I'd like to think that Hiroi will do better than Ishikawa if only for the fact that nothing could be worse than the little girl of despair destroying the universe and all the other things her writing subjected us to with the likes of G'raha and Hermes.

Even so, she broke a significant amount of FFXIV lore to prop up her OCs and the fact such things were even given the go-ahead despite the game having an alleged "10 year plan" is shocking.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

There was no long term vision or consistent message though. The writers changed for the worse in the end and now they change every patch and from the looks of it they're all at odds with each other.

Again, I'd like to think that Hiroi will do better than Ishikawa if only for the fact that nothing could be worse than the little girl of despair destroying the universe and all the other things her writing subjected us to with the likes of G'raha and Hermes.

Even so, she broke a significant amount of FFXIV lore to prop up her OCs and the fact such things were even given the go-ahead despite the game having an alleged "10 year plan" is shocking.

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But didn't she write shadowbringers? You know, the one everyone loves?

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

But didn't she write shadowbringers? You know, the one everyone loves?

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The story that was more or less in it's own vacuum? That was a neat story but there was some rumors that she had to rewrite the second half of EW per Yoshida's request. Though the fact that Fandanny phantom showed up in the 5.X patches really doesn't help the case that the new writer added her OC and his twitter pet bird seemingly out of nowhere.
Though considering how 6.3's story wrapped up it seems like we may be getting something a bit more proper. Man, the ending of 6.0 was so lackluster...

I've kinda expected a lull in the story. How could we not? They HAVE to reel things back and start setting up for new story after EW. And I'm sure this content is very exciting for those who love FF4!

I find a huge downside of being largely inspired but such an old FF entry though is that the plot beats are predictably old JRPG feeling. I don't know anything about FF4, but the boss designs also feel like they're mostly taken from old FF. They feel SO outdated. None of the designs are interesting at all or have anything unique going on. The dungeon boss felt like a copy paste of Susano's whole personality.(maybe this is just a water+turtle thing but still)

Not to mention, idk what it is about recent fights but they're just boring. The only thing that gets me hyped for them lately is the music.

As an FFIV fan I’ve been throughly unimpressed with this arc. Each archfiend reusing skeletons from other boss models was incredibly lazy, and Golbez I think is the most uninteresting antagonist in the game so far. Not even Stranger of Paradise took this long to get the point. God.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

As an FFIV fan I’ve been throughly unimpressed with this arc. Each archfiend reusing skeletons from other boss models was incredibly lazy, and Golbez I think is the most uninteresting antagonist in the game so far. Not even Stranger of Paradise took this long to get the point. God.

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https://i.ibb.co/7RkVfY2/download.jpg

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Golbez I think is the most uninteresting antagonist in the game so far..

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I think Golbez had potential. Perhaps he still does. As things currently stand though, his character motives are to just...die I guess? lol The writers are kind of retreading Ultima Thule, at least at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

https://i.ibb.co/7RkVfY2/download.jpg

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I loved Rubicante, the whole time I was toxic thinking “I can fix him” :33333

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Originally Posted by SassyAssassin

I loved Rubicante, the whole time I was toxic thinking “I can fix him” :33333

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You should have been like *Cast Benediction* "You die when I say you can die."

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

As an FFIV fan I’ve been throughly unimpressed with this arc. Each archfiend reusing skeletons from other boss models was incredibly lazy, and Golbez I think is the most uninteresting antagonist in the game so far. Not even Stranger of Paradise took this long to get the point. God.

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Strangers in paradise is an incredibly badly written piece of travesty with its only saving grace being that it is funny in a bad way but has good gameplay systems. Re-using skeletons is a non-issue, how dare they use something that would actually cater to the monster they want to make...it's called being resourceful...why make something new when you can repurpose what you have. Sigh please people ignore this troll because it's borderline sad now.

I actually agree with the OP on alot of the stuff, except the scions. I like the scions they have been my brothers in arms for a long while. Yes there is long periods of time where they arent doing anything Alisae for almost 2 full expansions to name one. But I dont mind them that much I wanted some of them to die off but they were not courageous enough to let them die or the main villian for that matter.

The Abuse of the Four Elemental Archfiends is disturbing to me tho. Not only did they get the order of their power completely wrong on Barbariccia and Cagnazzo just forcing 2 of the 4 into dungeon fights was worse enough for me. It leads me to believe they intend to have us either fight Golbez or chase him into the next expansion. Also the Moon thing where he is at is just foreshadowing of a Zeromus fight thats planned. Its not a hard read. We will get a new lunar subterrannae dungeon in 6.4 or 6.5. But Its just feeling like they have a direction but dont know how to push the further.

Lets take Gaia, I really didnt enjoy her because I hate angsty teenager story lines as it is. But Thanks to Ryne being a well written character for ShB MSQ I was able to tolerate it. Zero is just written as an edgy teenager again and done badly without balance. We also see that she is forcefully being rushed as well with her failing to protect a villiage all alone as the reason that she see's herself as not useful. No one else bothered to protect that villiage. We have no backstory as to why she was alone.

Lets be real here. The Writer for ShB is either working on two projects at once, or is washed up. Which is hard to believe after ShB was so successful and one of my favorite expansions period. So I think we are stuck with this lackluster expansion until FFXVI is released and Yoshida gets his full team back because we know its the main driving factor for why the content has been so little and problematically written. I love this game so much but I am just dissappointed with how everything turned out. The slow paced ShB set up for Endwalker with Lunar Primals(Very lackluster) and the mess of Pacing for the Climactic ending of the saga mixed with a jumbled mess of lore for the 13th that should very well be its own expansion as it is. I miss the old ff14. It cant just expect ShB to keep the hype going people are getting tired of it. I read more and more each day.

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Originally Posted by Talonk

Lets be real here. The Writer for ShB is either working on two projects at once, or is washed up. Which is hard to believe after ShB was so successful and one of my favorite expansions period. So I think we are stuck with this lackluster expansion until FFXVI is released and Yoshida gets his full team back because we know its the main driving factor for why the content has been so little and problematically written.

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The writer for FFXVI went to that project after 3.0. Ishikawa and Oda are not a part of the FFXVI project and are only doing FFXIV.

FFXVI's development was still going on when ShB was made, but people loved that expansion so FFXVI can't really be used as an excuse here.


As for the Four Fiends, the follow-up story to EW needs to end by 6.4/5 so that 7.0 can start fresh without dangling threads left over. That leads to needing to get it done sooner rather than later and there's only enough room for 4 trials in post-expansion content and one of those will almost definitely be Golbez. Besides, didn't the Four Fiends not last very long in FFIV anyway?

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Originally Posted by Knot_D

Meanwhile on Island Sanctuary rank 12 quest (Spoiler):

Cirina and Sadu visiting our island and purposely not inviting "little sun". I feel like Magnai turned them into lesbian...

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I for one have been shipping Sadu and Cirian since Stormblood. Sadu is actually one of my favorite NPCs and would like to see her become his 'wingmate' with the WoL (Never get with Magnai...) perhaps to find his love or perhaps teach him that he dose not need to find a beloved to be happy/a leader. That would be a nice story I think.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

https://i.ibb.co/7RkVfY2/download.jpg

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*Save for future use*

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Originally Posted by Talonk

I actually agree with the OP on alot of the stuff, except the scions. I like the scions they have been my brothers in arms for a long while. Yes there is long periods of time where they arent doing anything Alisae for almost 2 full expansions to name one. But I dont mind them that much I wanted some of them to die off but they were not courageous enough to let them die or the main villian for that matter.

The Abuse of the Four Elemental Archfiends is disturbing to me tho. Not only did they get the order of their power completely wrong on Barbariccia and Cagnazzo just forcing 2 of the 4 into dungeon fights was worse enough for me. It leads me to believe they intend to have us either fight Golbez or chase him into the next expansion. Also the Moon thing where he is at is just foreshadowing of a Zeromus fight thats planned. Its not a hard read. We will get a new lunar subterrannae dungeon in 6.4 or 6.5. But Its just feeling like they have a direction but dont know how to push the further.

Lets take Gaia, I really didnt enjoy her because I hate angsty teenager story lines as it is. But Thanks to Ryne being a well written character for ShB MSQ I was able to tolerate it. Zero is just written as an edgy teenager again and done badly without balance. We also see that she is forcefully being rushed as well with her failing to protect a villiage all alone as the reason that she see's herself as not useful. No one else bothered to protect that villiage. We have no backstory as to why she was alone.

Lets be real here. The Writer for ShB is either working on two projects at once, or is washed up. Which is hard to believe after ShB was so successful and one of my favorite expansions period. So I think we are stuck with this lackluster expansion until FFXVI is released and Yoshida gets his full team back because we know its the main driving factor for why the content has been so little and problematically written. I love this game so much but I am just dissappointed with how everything turned out. The slow paced ShB set up for Endwalker with Lunar Primals(Very lackluster) and the mess of Pacing for the Climactic ending of the saga mixed with a jumbled mess of lore for the 13th that should very well be its own expansion as it is. I miss the old ff14. It cant just expect ShB to keep the hype going people are getting tired of it. I read more and more each day.

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Alot of this doesn't make sense. How can they have a direction yet not push forward when...we are and have been moving this whole time? Also why do power levels matter when this isn't FF4? The writers can make whoever they chose to be stronger or weaker tbf.

Next I don't see how Zero is an "edgy teen". She's a voidesent dude. Is she suppose to act like king mog or something? And how exactly is she being rushed? We got to see a glimpse into her past that parallels what happened in the present. This time she's learned from it and is beginning to question more things. It's not just "what is a friend " anymore.

It's odd you speak as if EW wasn't and hasn't been a success when numbers would factually say otherwise. Has the content actually been little or has it just been things not interesting you? Has the writing actually been problematic or is that just an opinion. That's the thing with all this. I miss aspects of old XIV but wholesale I wouldn't want to go back to old XIV

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

As an FFIV fan I’ve been throughly unimpressed with this arc. Each archfiend reusing skeletons from other boss models was incredibly lazy, and Golbez I think is the most uninteresting antagonist in the game so far. Not even Stranger of Paradise took this long to get the point. God.

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I refuse to believe you've played any FF game beyond your wildest aveyond dreams...er I mean beyond FFXIV. You have no clue about the series besides XIV. This is your only game. Accept the fact

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I refuse to believe you've played any FF game beyond your wildest aveyond dreams...er I mean beyond FFXIV. You have no clue about the series besides XIV. This is your only game. Accept the fact

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Thing is if they had played FF4 you would see that outside of say Rubicante, all the fiends had more screen time in 14 than in the game they're from, Scarmiglione especially because they were canon fodder in FF4.

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Originally Posted by Talonk

Lets be real here. The Writer for ShB is either working on two projects at once, or is washed up.

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Ishikawa stepped down after 6.0 and took an advisory role, currently we have new writers on board—her "juniors." She's barely involved in the actual writing and just supervises now.

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Originally Posted by CStrife912

Thing is if they had played FF4 you would see that outside of say Rubicante, all the fiends had more screen time in 14 than in the game they're from, Scarmiglione especially because they were canon fodder in FF4.

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Pretty much this. Just like with many things this game borrows from previous titles (which other FF games have done numerous times before. This isnt anything new with FFXIV) they give new meaning to the familiar. So them expanding on Golbez and the Four Fiends using the framework giving in FFXIV is kinda neat imo. Ive played FFIV multiple times; certainly more than aveyond-dreams, and as someone who's a fan of the old school, I very much enjoy what they do with the stuff they pull from. Its not like Kingdom Hearts where they just half-ass the FF references or completely ruin the original. Like Vivi in KH2...ugh..

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Besides, didn't the Four Fiends not last very long in FFIV anyway?

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The Four Fiends were used through out ff4 up until the second to last dungeon before the descent in the lunar final dungeon. They were a huge part of the story and ressurected as well.

Also Yeah I'm not saying the writer is bad Im just trying to figure out what happened. But we do know that half of yoshi p's team is working on ffXVI so makybe Ishiwaka is not well equipped with her usual team who knows. just feels very bad right now. At least for me.

Reread what I said. They have a direction but dont know how to push forward with it. Zero is basically voidsent gaia.

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Originally Posted by Talonk

The Four Fiends were used through out ff4 up until the second to last dungeon before the descent in the lunar final dungeon. They were a huge part of the story and ressurected as well.

Also Yeah I'm not saying the writer is bad Im just trying to figure out what happened. But we do know that half of yoshi p's team is working on ffXVI so makybe Ishiwaka is not well equipped with her usual team who knows. just feels very bad right now. At least for me.

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Their characters in og FFIV were all left at their one shining moment which is just one scene when they appear in the whole game. Which works regardless.

We agree with the tread. Guild must get Ikawa remove to bring back No Shadow God. Only by make personal attak on career can this happen. Also remove English translator because is support Venar. Guild is bringing the torch and the fork for revenger.

Honestly it just feels like I am playing the expansion Trial series as the MSQ. That isn't to say trial series are bad as I loved most of them just the pacing isn't really MSQ levels but more in line with how trial series have done their pacing previously. It just feels really off for the MSQ to me when it comes to Zero's character development and it feeling like it was speed ran.

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Originally Posted by Xeronia

Honestly it just feels like I am playing the expansion Trial series as the MSQ. That isn't to say trial series are bad as I loved most of them just the pacing isn't really MSQ levels but more in line with how trial series have done their pacing previously. It just feels really off for the MSQ to me when it comes to Zero's character development and it feeling like it was speed ran.

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Can definitely relate. I do miss the days in previous expansions when the Trial series was its own questline...instead I'm supposed to be excited for Tataru - from what I understand - dressing the 4 lords in chicken outfits because haha funneh? Endwalker is more a bad sitcom than an RPG at this point. Can't imagine another expansion worth of this style of writing with levity and bottom of the barrel humour galore. Mind you, this is before the Loporrit beast tribe quests drop but by the time they do my sub will have long since run out and I'll be playing Hogwarts Legacy.

Also glad to know that this game is so rich in story and content to discuss and play through that FFXIV youtubers have resorted to using my threads for videos. I suppose I should welcome the attention, nevertheless I stand by pretty much everything I've said and can only hope that the only way forward from here is up. Unfortunately me thinking that back in 6.2 did not save 6.3 from being as underwhelming as it was. I'd really like it if the game would go back to cutting out the busywork and delivering more entertaining patch stories like it did in previous expansions instead of the state of things being excused as ok "because it's filler."

Do not waste my time like this MSQ did, shouldn't decent writers strive for better?

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Do not waste my time like this MSQ did

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Or you can keep subbed and buy fantas and whatnot. Your actions say you LOVE this game.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Can definitely relate. I do miss the days in previous expansions when the Trial series was its own questline...instead I'm supposed to be excited for Tataru - from what I understand - dressing the 4 lords in chicken outfits because haha funneh? Endwalker is more a bad sitcom than an RPG at this point. Can't imagine another expansion worth of this style of writing with levity and bottom of the barrel humour galore. Mind you, this is before the Loporrit beast tribe quests drop but by the time they do my sub will have long since run out and I'll be playing Hogwarts Legacy.

Also glad to know that this game is so rich in story and content to discuss and play through that FFXIV youtubers have resorted to using my threads for videos. I suppose I should welcome the attention, nevertheless I stand by pretty much everything I've said and can only hope that the only way forward from here is up. Unfortunately me thinking that back in 6.2 did not save 6.3 from being as underwhelming as it was. I'd really like it if the game would go back to cutting out the busywork and delivering more entertaining patch stories like it did in previous expansions instead of the state of things being excused as ok "because it's filler."

Do not waste my time like this MSQ did, shouldn't decent writers strive for better?

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You mean where Mr happy gave good retort to most of your points and the comments in the video also confirmed you seem to be on some weird hate boner for some reason. Why can't you every quote or respond to people eh? you seem to just want to ignore everyone who even remotely gives good retorts in favor of boosting your own ego chamber. Also he is using your content probably because it would be good for views because of how ludicrously one-sided your viewpoint is lol it offers content where they can debate and have a healthy discussions.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

Or you can keep subbed and buy fantas and whatnot. Your actions say you LOVE this game.

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Hey now, don't go calling attention to the tsundere's inconsistency.
That's what gets you hit with a giant mallet.

idk what kind of standard you put the game on, but its not it, lol you are trying to compare the post 6.0 story like its supposed to tell a story similar to endwalker is pretty crazy, we dont even have an overarching villans yet, and you are complaining that the story isnt lord of the rings heavy enough!? i mean we get it heavensward was a good story but it was built around from post arr content, just like post ew is building around 7.0...lol idk i think its time to just quit the game when u compare a bun to zodiark summonings...i get people dislike the game for whatever reason, but its seems aspergers levels of criticisms, i feel like you need another game or help with whatever going on because comparing the game to a triple oscar movie is a lil too much friend...and crazy part is msq has been meh...thats b/c im hoping new xpac story is good

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Originally Posted by Xeronia

Honestly it just feels like I am playing the expansion Trial series as the MSQ. That isn't to say trial series are bad as I loved most of them just the pacing isn't really MSQ levels but more in line with how trial series have done their pacing previously. It just feels really off for the MSQ to me when it comes to Zero's character development and it feeling like it was speed ran.

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Interestingly, a lot of people believed the Golbez + Four Fiends cliffhanger at the end of 6.1 being that of the EW trial story series. Which would've been a first for the game as far as Im aware since they normally never hint at any of the extra trials in msq, only normal raids series. So its kinda of a given that many people would feel that way with post-EW story.

But isnt that kinda the point of it? I mean we already defeated this cosmic being of despair and the story team already discussed that the conflict would be winding down; especially with this story hopefully bridging what we would eventually expect with the start of the new story arc in 7.0. So while its understandable to feel like post-EW isnt that much to run home around (which of course it is) its also kinda stupid to compare it to say the build up in previous post-expansion stories. So far the void story, along with Azdaja is relatively a minor conflict that we just decided to stumble upon. Im just currently interested where they're taking it and see what's the next big thing to come and thats all I need for now with post-EW.

Heres the videoi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkMbfQZ0BZk

Hate to tell you this, Aveyond, but he doesnt take you seriously either.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Heres the videoi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkMbfQZ0BZk

Hate to tell you this, Aveyond, but he doesnt take you seriously either.

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Nor do a lot of people in the comments of that video, it goes against their 'Everyone disliked it or the most debated expansion in its life' concepts. I am just convinced they are a troll at this point or someone with an unhealthy attachment to it and doesn't like the story hasn't gone the route of their fanfiction.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Interestingly, a lot of people believed the Golbez + Four Fiends cliffhanger at the end of 6.1 being that of the EW trial story series. Which would've been a first for the game as far as Im aware since they normally never hint at any of the extra trials in msq, only normal raids series. So its kinda of a given that many people would feel that way with post-EW story.

But isnt that kinda the point of it? I mean we already defeated this cosmic being of despair and the story team already discussed that the conflict would be winding down; especially with this story hopefully bridging what we would eventually expect with the start of the new story arc in 7.0. So while its understandable to feel like post-EW isnt that much to run home around (which of course it is) its also kinda stupid to compare it to say the build up in previous post-expansion stories. So far the void story, along with Azdaja is relatively a minor conflict that we just decided to stumble upon. Im just currently interested where they're taking it and see what's the next big thing to come and thats all I need for now with post-EW.

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While I do understand that you can still have low stakes and be a great story that is properly paced like 4.2-4.3 with Yotsuyu's arc. I also am just not a fan of what thus far appears to be copy paste FF4 characters/plot in the MSQ, I expect that from side stories but not the main scenario. It just feels like somehow nothing is happening with the big bad's plot and yet we are rushing through everything with Zero at the same time for some reason.

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Nor do a lot of people in the comments of that video, it goes against their 'Everyone disliked it or the most debated expansion in its life' concepts. I am just convinced they are a troll at this point or someone with an unhealthy attachment to it and doesn't like the story hasn't gone the route of their fanfiction.

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That moment when he said "Oh its THAT guy", I almost fell over laughing. ;);)

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

That moment when he said "Oh its THAT guy", I almost fell over laughing. ;);)

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Hopefuly it'll be his Aveyond-wakeupcall

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

That moment when he said "Oh its THAT guy", I almost fell over laughing. ;);)

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Let's be honest, how many of us have the same reaction?

LMAO, I checked OP's "reddit answer edit", and it's mostly just the same guy he screenshoted over and over.