Yoshida-san: Please Give Us a BETTER System for Relics and Future 2.0 Challenges!

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Interview by one of our LS member:-

http://www.1up.com/features/ffxiv-in...nix-fallen-mmo

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Good article, thanks for the link. I didn't know 1up did an interview, too.

Glad Yoshi-P realizes how screwed up RNG is and is taking steps against it.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Interview by one of our LS member:-

http://www.1up.com/features/ffxiv-in...nix-fallen-mmo

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This is very encouraging. I hope to see a breadth of engaging content for a variety of group sizes and makeups come 2.0.

That was an excellent interview. It really shows when the Interviewer has experience with a game because pertinent questions get answered. And also skillfully asked questions about current issues by leading them into 2.0 and beyond.

Also Cudos to Yoshi-P for being so up front in his answers.

The news about RNG. Drop rate are pretty excellent in my opinion. And the Class/Job/Multi job info is quite good aswell.

Also like that he said 3 party dungeons as opposed to 24 person party. Having 3 defined groups of people could lead to alot of interesting team work mechanics.

Honestly, while I definitely agree that the RNG of hamlet, etc. is a huge issue, I wouldn't mind it quite AS much if hamlet were actually remotely enjoyable. It's not fun/engaging, it's just more instanced garbage done in the worst way, and far from what most perceived it to be. Granted, different/new ideas do not mean they're bad, but I'm with the many that thought it would be more akin to an open-world besieged, or at least to the point where it doesn't require a group of 8 to do - similar to the imperial invasions outside of town.

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Originally Posted by Theplatter

Honestly, while I definitely agree that the RNG of hamlet, etc. is a huge issue, I wouldn't mind it quite AS much if hamlet were actually remotely enjoyable. It's not fun/engaging, it's just more instanced garbage done in the worst way, and far from what most perceived it to be. Granted, different/new ideas do not mean they're bad, but I'm with the many that thought it would be more akin to an open-world besieged, or at least to the point where it doesn't require a group of 8 to do.

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I don't doubt thats how they would have liked to do it. But i'm sure the current engine and server structure didn't make that feasable. One of the big points Yoshi-P made in recent comments is the amount of people (and thus i'm sure, NPCs) that will be visable in the future will be MUCH higher. Which is absolutly needed for such a large scale battle.

And in part i think the snetiment you have adds to the RNG issue. I still would not be such a fan of high RNG use in drops for a progression type "quest" but to add that in with what is in the current form, less then exciting system only make the perception of the issue even worse.

Its one thing if its somewhat fun, and the RNG is a pain. But to have neither fun or progress is well, no fun at all.

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Originally Posted by Noir

Garuda isn't casual. You need high dps to trigger AF before the 3rd port or you take 3.5k dmg af and wipe afterwards. Garuda needs 8 ppl that know how to play the classes, plus high dmg. I would say ifrit and moogle are casuals. You need only most of the time, two good healers, one good tank for moogle. The rest can be a mix of casuals and hardcore. Garuda don't, either you know how to play and are geared up or don't even bother going there to get wiped every 5min.

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No sarcasm here, I am asking a legitimate question because I actually want to know:

So by your description there is no such thing as a "good" casual player?
There is no such thing as 8 causals "that know how to play the classes" ?
There are no 'High dps' casual players?

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Originally Posted by Dzian

I'm Casual and I'm damn good at my jobs. since when does being able to play 24/7 = skill? The answer is never.
Since when does gear replace skill? again never!

why haven't i speed ran cc/av blah blah blah? I have a life, a girlfriend, and a daughter.

I'm casual and this evening within 15 minutes of being online i had 8 people send me a /t from shells i'm not even in asking if i can help with something because i'm a damn good player.

you can have the best gear in the game and still suck at anything you do.

Gear DOES NOT equal Skill!

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Pretty sure if someone asked me If I wanted the guy that was gonna do my open heart surgery to have 1000's of hours of experience or some asshat fresh outa medschool, I would pick the guy with more hours every time. SO would you.

I've done 150+ A.V. 5 chest speed runs with no body drops. That is broken.

2 HDL Body dropped tonight... Back to Back. Some1 tell me how that is a functional game mechanic.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

You and I both know that Relic weapons were a insurmountable wall for only a handfull of players. you didn't just "Do dynamis" you had to spend alot of money just to do one run.

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Yes it was, and moeny that you easily got back by selling a portion of your currency which I counted as a standard part of every run, usually the ttl was ~150 with 50 paying for the run.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

We also both know that these relic weapons are nowhere near a "200 hour maybe I get it" investment. You are using Dynamis as a very lopsided comparison, if anything you should be using Assault as a example. Quick repeatable content that awarded you point towards your goals (Weapons armour yadayada) The crazy thing is though.

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I didn't say it was, as we have no idea what it will take min or max to finish one there's no argument either way as yet. What I was saying was that most of the people that are interested in these things, the hardcore if you will, would put in the time, and in XI did.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Not everything in XI (Or any MMO) is designed the same, we have tons of other ways to get gear that isn't pre-determined by the RNG gods, GC equipment for one is able to be "Slow and steady" worked towards and is arguably some of the best gear in the game.

Double tripple balled gear may beat it, but that's because of the larger investment in Time/Money/Chance, some people like to gamble for a better mouse trap, some people would rather not. I think your issue is that the item you want is stuck in a system you don't like.

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I never asked for XI again, actually I've said a number of times that the last thing I want is XI again, I left XI for a new experience. I just want one with tangible rewards not all the best stuff is luck based. In fact didn't that post end with me saying I don't want XI or Dyna again, I just use them as an example?

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Originally Posted by Jynx

You are blowing the RNG WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY out of proportion making it seem like everything you do is below a 5% sucsess rate. You ignore that the drop rates are nowhere near as bad, 20% isn't a "Crazy gonna always lose" situation, Materials can be farmed, (We have no information on the CC/AV chests so I can't coment) But I don't imagine those chests drop darkmatter all the time.

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Cause I said that after doing all this stuff you maybe get your item maybe not? That's overboard it strikes me as nail on the head, it's random so maybe fits. If you meant the part where I said 200 hrs time in and maybe you win maybe you don't? Again the random means that is the case, maybe you get it all in a day, maybe not. If that sounds better to you.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

So like I've said I'm not againt the slow-steady way but people are over-reacting to this content. It's a terrible knee-jerk reaction, people don't even have all the information and are acting like winning the lottery has better odds than getting one of these weapons.

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I think your taking some of these things and blowing them up in your head because you want to defend the way it is. That's fine, if you really believe this is the best it can be that's your opinion.

I, and we know I'm not alone, don't think that this was the best way to go. That's the only point that anyone here is trying to make, that random is not skill luck is not dedication and that it's flawed to say that this is going to take tons of skill and be difficult because you might get beat by a RNG and probably will a fair bit of the time.

A system that rewards time and effort not luck makes more sense for something like AF/Relic/Mythic. They should be knock down drag out quests, whether it require tons of farming in unique areas, killing certain "God" NMs, not sit in town and hope this one works.

If the only real argument that can be posed is that I use extreme numbers well, you've lost already, my extremes are real possibilties not anything less. Are they the extreme ends yes, but the extremes are often used to illustrate points, if it would make you feel better I can say that person A goes 1/1 and person B goes 1/22 not so extreme but the fact remains that people aren't rewarded equally for equal amounts put in, not even nearly equally. The Dyna example was meant to show that some variance through RNG is fine so long as people are getting near equal rewards/time. Assault is the epitome of this, rewarding equal performance with equal rewards every time.

Again though, I would never ask for easy, easy is boring, I would only ever ask that equal time/effort be rewarded equally. @5mil a weapon if you get yours 1/1 and I 1/6 I've spent 6x what you did for the same return, why? Is gambling really the system for relics, for NMs ok, BCNMs ok, Primals Ok, Raids with something dropping 100% doesn't matter what just 100% that something will ok. AF armor/weapons Relic armor/weapons should be daunting but not random I think.

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Originally Posted by Destain

I've done 150+ A.V. 5 chest speed runs with no body drops. That is broken.

2 HDL Body dropped tonight... Back to Back. Some1 tell me how that is a functional game mechanic.

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It's like oil in your radiator and water in your oil pan. Running as smooth as a well oiled 2 dollar digital watch keeps time.

Lol wtf do ppl have over 500 post on these forums do you post while crafting or something? This like your sec job? Play game for 8hrs then post for 4? ALL PPL WANT IS A FUCKING PROGRESS BAR!!!!!!!!!! Can you idiots that keep saying they want it easy read that and understand what it means? PROGRESS BAR....PROGRESS BAR!!!!!

Yoshida has come out and said in the above interview that we will have a need, greed, or pass system in 2.0 and that the RNG thing will be addressed then as well. For the love of god someone please shut this shit down now lol. It may be the ussual wait for 2.0 response, but at least its a response.

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Originally Posted by Nieshua

Lol wtf do ppl have over 500 post on these forums do you post while crafting or something? This like your sec job? Play game for 8hrs then post for 4? ALL PPL WANT IS A FUCKING PROGRESS BAR!!!!!!!!!! Can you idiots that keep saying they want it easy read that and understand what it means? PROGRESS BAR....PROGRESS BAR!!!!!

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Yep I do post while I craft, but really in the last 500 days 500 posts is only 1 a day.

1 a day really? Why do you think you need to do this most of the ppl with these 500-4000 posts just argue all day. I just think its funny is all but thanks for tryna justify it since you'll be reaching this number shortly. #Don't post so much. Quality > Quantity...PROGRESS BAR!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Biggs

Yoshida has come out and said in the above interview that we will have a need, greed, or pass system in 2.0 and that the RNG thing will be addressed then as well. For the love of god someone please shut this shit down now lol. It may be the ussual wait for 2.0 response, but at least its a response.

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After reading most of this thread I went over to the forum and found the interview. I was about to post it here but found your [Jinko's & Biggs's] post of it so here is the interview again if anyone missed it. {had to manually add the article you quoted because for some reason it did not post in my quote of your original quotes.}

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Interview by one of our LS member:-

http://www.1up.com/features/ffxiv-in...nix-fallen-mmo

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1UP: A couple things in the game right now that seem to be, as Final Fantasy XI players might say, are "haunted by the ghost of Tanaka." For example, the Relic weapon quests that were just added yesterday seem to rely very heavily on luck. And this kind of thing is really discouraging to a lot of players. An element of luck is okay, but effort is more important. And there's always the thought that, yeah, if I do this enough times, I might get lucky and get it, but there's always the fear that they won't. Especially after the Ifrit and other boss battles. I know people say that they fought 75 times and they haven't gotten a weapon yet, and they're just really frustrated, and they're upset to see that same thing happening in other systems. So are there any plans to adjust the luck/effort balance of high-level content in the future?

NY: We can tell you that at version 2.0, a lot of things are going to be changing in this aspect. For example, like a token type of system, where if you do it enough times, you're going to get rewarded for doing it that many times. We also have something else prepared as well that's going to address this... we can't talk about it now, but we have many things in place that will address that issue.

And the other thing being that, the real need for the Need, Greed, and Pass type of system when things get dropped, things that are pretty much a global standard that we haven't achieved yet on Final Fantasy XIV. We understand that we have those problems, but with the current system, we can't address them. But we will be able to address them in 2.0 with the new system and the new engines. And so you can go back and tell the community that, come 2.0, we will actually have that global standard and you won't have to worry as much about these types of things. But again, that doesn't mean we're going to forget about our current version players. We're going to listen to the voices of the players, look at the forums, adjust drop rates to reduce as much stress as possible for the players so they can experience this grand finale, the Seventh Umbral Era story, that ushers in 2.0.

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Originally Posted by Biggs

Pretty sure if someone asked me If I wanted the guy that was gonna do my open heart surgery to have 1000's of hours of experience or some asshat fresh outa medschool, I would pick the guy with more hours every time. SO would you.

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Because playing an MMO is certainly something we should all go to school for 7 years to be able to play with skill. Kidding aside your analogy barely applies.

More time doing something mean you have a memory of whats to come next. That doesn't mean your automaticly better at it then someone who hasn't done it as much. You could easily have someone whos put in 200 more Ifrit fights then someone else. But if the player who did it less puts out say, more DPS and is quicker at getting "out of the fire" then that means?

Yes... it means Skill != Time

And that means Casual != Bad

Infact i wonder if those who are younger realize that the "Hardcore" Players of the past are often the Moms and Dads who have only a few hours to spare now. Some of the stuff they've done in games would probably blow your mind and send you crying for mercy in the corner. That doesn't mean they "have a life" and you don't. We all have other things to do. Raising a child however its more difficult and time intensive then any Dungeon you will ever run!

Thats right, your Mom and Dad are HARDCORE!

Regardless of how things may change in 2.0, there's still this:

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Originally Posted by Aveline

This relic "quest" is absurd.

Not only does it fail to give me any anticipation of an actually challenging journey/epic storyline to get my weapons, it also incredibly imbalances who gets the rewards. For any other "elite" weapon, if they want you to have to pay someone to craft it for you or whatever, fine. But these relic weapons are essentially a part of our AF. That is how they've been marketed to us. And now who gets the profit benefit from this? The crafters who can make the class-specific weapons and the gatherers who are high enough level to go get the material.

A relic/AF piece should not be something that other players make a profit off of. It should be a quest or a series of quests that makes the player feel challenged, immersed in the world and lore, and ultimately fulfilled once they have succeeded in the quest goals. Sitting in Ul'dah praying that my overpriced materia doesn't explode in my face is not fulfilling. Nor is it epic. It's a waste of my time and a cheap filler mission. They should have simply waited until 2.0 to give us relic weapons and actually spent time on a real quest, rather than this farce.

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Hamlet Defense sucks, this is crappy, casual, DoL/DOH content that would be more suitable for like a seasonal event not as the first major step in getting the best weapons in the game.

I just hope all this crap is replaced in 2.0 with something better.

Now I understand why people defend this system
"Please don't use challenging events, so even us unskilled players can obtain a Relic if we're lucky enough. It would be very frustrating if only heavy skilled players can earn the better weapons off the game"

Maybe the "too hard for you, skip it" is a confession

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Originally Posted by Biggs

Pretty sure if someone asked me If I wanted the guy that was gonna do my open heart surgery to have 1000's of hours of experience or some asshat fresh outa medschool, I would pick the guy with more hours every time. SO would you.

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LOL did you just compare the outcome & importance of open heart surgery to a video game, surly my eyes deceive me.

Besides I would rather pick the one that has had the most success rate, as others have said casuals are quite capable of being good players, they just have less time to game.

People with less experience that do as well as people with more experience are the exception, not the rule.

People do ask for experienced players because that does more often than not mean they will be better.

Ever heard of the word veteran?

Also, whats up with people taking Biggs analogy literally? Its an analogy guys. We all know that your LS leader isnt a surgeon.

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Originally Posted by Dominar

We all know that your LS leader isnt a surgeon.

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Who says ?

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Besides I would rather pick the one that has had the most success rate, .

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So you would prefer the surgeon that has made a surgery once with success and never another one over the one that did 100 and had one failure? After all the firt one had 100% success the second one only 99%...

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Originally Posted by Deatheye

So you would prefer the surgeon that has made a surgery once with success and never another one over the one that did 100 and had one failure? After all the firt one had 100% success the second one only 99%...

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Well anyone with half a brain would look at the amount of procedures wouldn't they.

Geezz come on !

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Well anyone with half a brain would look at the amount of procedures wouldn't they.

Geezz come on !

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OK but if you think thats so obvious I really don't understand how it seems you don't think it's obvious that in generell someone that does something more often also is bether at it. I guess there are exceptions.

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Originally Posted by Deatheye

OK but if you think thats so obvious I really don't understand how it seems you don't think it's obvious that in generell someone that does something more often also is bether at it. I guess there are exceptions.

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Why we arguing about this hmmm ?

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Originally Posted by Hypnotic13371337

like, it only rewards skill if you level everything up/farm make everything on your own, but how are you going to do ALL OF THIS before 2.0 comes out AND experience the story that comes with 1.22c/1.23?

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Why do people think relic weapon quest is not in 2.0?
Or why think people they need to make it before 2.0 is out?
1. the quest would be in 2.0, too
2. level cap raise is not coming with 2.0 start
3. SE said they plan to make the weapons upgradeable with level cap raise

Just an example of a system that allows players to play "their" way. As the current Relic weapon quest does, it takes advantage of existing content. Rather than "forcing" players to engage specific content, it "encourages".

At some point during the relic weapon quest, you are provided a de-activated relic. In order to activate, you have to acquire 10,000 relic seals (it could be any number really). You can only get relic seals when the de-activated relic is equipped.

Relic seals are rewarded via a variety of ways:
1. Killing mobs that are of at least level 50 have a random chance of dropping a relic seals. In this case, RNG would be driven by the level of the mob and the number of players in the group (high level mob, more players = more likely to get a seal).
2. Completing leves would also provide players with a chance of getting a seal. Faction and Company leves would offer the best chance.
3. Completing hamlet would guarantee a certain number of seals. A higher score would randomly increase the number of seals rewarded.
4. Attempting hamlet with some degree of success would randomly reward seals.
5. Completing Ifrit, Moogle and Garuda would guarantee a certain number of seals in addition to randomly rewarding more.
6. Attempting Ifrit, Moogle, and Garuda with some degree of success would randomly reward seals.
7. Completing any of the high-level instanced dungeons would guarantee a certain number of seals.
8. Attempting any of the high-level instanced dungeons with some degree of success would randomly reward a number of seals.
9. Earning an achievement would provide you with a seal.

This is just an example. But, it rewards a variety forms of gameplay. Progress is measureable. Randomness is sometimes involved (but only to provide an *extra* reward). It still requires time and the "higher risk" content would provide the best rewards. It recycles already established content mechanisms. Players aren't "forced" to engage content that already has a barrier of entry (full group, time, etc...). In this case, the only crux is having to use a de-activated relic which may increase the challenge of some content.

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Originally Posted by Dominar

People with less experience that do as well as people with more experience are the exception, not the rule.

People do ask for experienced players because that does more often than not mean they will be better.

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thats very innacurate.

I've been driving 10 years, have 7 years no claims, zero points on my licence and do maybe 6000 miles a year.
my brothers been driving 14 years, has no no claims, 6 points on his licence, 3 accidents and he does maybe 15000 miles a year.

He's by far the more experienced driver more hours behind the wheel etc etc but i'm by far the better one which is why my insurance is 20% of what his is...

so which one would you trust to drive your car?

Lol people getting all analytical about who they run with.

How about I just play the game with my friends wether they are masters of their craft or not? I find knowing my teams strengths and weaknesses to be more benificial than just assuming we are all pro-tastic players.

Then again I game for the fun of it, failures and no drops don't really matter to me. At the end of the day if we died because our tank rofled into a sandpit mid-battle it's not a bad thing it's just hillarious and we will never let him forget the day he drown in a pit of sand while tanking a boss.

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Originally Posted by rwyan

Just an example of a system that allows players to play "their" way. As the current Relic weapon quest does, it takes advantage of existing content. Rather than "forcing" players to engage specific content, it "encourages".

At some point during the relic weapon quest, you are provided a de-activated relic. In order to activate, you have to acquire 10,000 relic seals (it could be any number really). You can only get relic seals when the de-activated relic is equipped.

Relic seals are rewarded via a variety of ways:
1. Killing mobs that are of at least level 50 have a random chance of dropping a relic seals. In this case, RNG would be driven by the level of the mob and the number of players in the group (high level mob, more players = more likely to get a seal).
2. Completing leves would also provide players with a chance of getting a seal. Faction and Company leves would offer the best chance.
3. Completing hamlet would guarantee a certain number of seals. A higher score would randomly increase the number of seals rewarded.
4. Attempting hamlet with some degree of success would randomly reward seals.
5. Completing Ifrit, Moogle and Garuda would guarantee a certain number of seals in addition to randomly rewarding more.
6. Attempting Ifrit, Moogle, and Garuda with some degree of success would randomly reward seals.
7. Completing any of the high-level instanced dungeons would guarantee a certain number of seals.
8. Attempting any of the high-level instanced dungeons with some degree of success would randomly reward a number of seals.
9. Earning an achievement would provide you with a seal.

This is just an example. But, it rewards a variety forms of gameplay. Progress is measureable. Randomness is sometimes involved (but only to provide an *extra* reward). It still requires time and the "higher risk" content would provide the best rewards. It recycles already established content mechanisms. Players aren't "forced" to engage content that already has a barrier of entry (full group, time, etc...). In this case, the only crux is having to use a de-activated relic which may increase the challenge of some content.

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Some of the best I've seen yet^^

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Originally Posted by Dzian

thats very innacurate.

I've been driving 10 years, have 7 years no claims, zero points on my licence and do maybe 6000 miles a year.
my brothers been driving 14 years, has no no claims, 6 points on his licence, 3 accidents and he does maybe 15000 miles a year.

He's by far the more experienced driver more hours behind the wheel etc etc but i'm by far the better one which is why my insurance is 20% of what his is...

so which one would you trust to drive your car?

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Yes because one example explains every possible situation. Look at you own example and tell me if you take 100 eighteen year olds ans 100 thirty year olds what percentage of each sample are safer to drive with. Some eighteen year olds might even be better but experience will come into play a lot.

The point is that as a rule experience makes you better. Thats why when you apply for a job they want experience. Just because you can bring up examples that say otherwise doesnt make that any less true as a general rule.

i prefer grinding my way out to get Relic... :\ seems more better than RNG... ><

Agree with the OP! I can't all the completely luck based systems currently in the game. Garuda was definitely a step in the right direction. I have no problem working longer for something if I'm guaranteed a little bit of progress.

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Originally Posted by Tano

Seems you haven't played a lot of mmos lately except ff11 and 14.

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Seems the only MMO you've played is WoW.

Luck based systems can work. There is nothing wrong with the RNG. The problem is that progress has become heavily reliant on full-group based content which doles around rewards based on the RNG. The problem is exacerbated when new content relies on the old content which relies on the RNG!

Progress in FF14 can be measured in a variety of ways:
1. Class Level
2. Achievements
3. Job "level" (ability and AF acquisition)
4. Company "level"
5. Acquisition of Crafted Gear
6. Acquisition of Raid Gear
7. Acquisition of Hamlet Gear
8. Acquisition of NM related gear (faction leves and open world)
9. Acquisition of Gil
10. Emergent goals (goals defined by each player due to sandbox elements of the game).

This is great! There really is a lot to do in the game, plenty to keep most any player occupied. But alas, options 3-7 all become dependent on completion of content that take a full group. And, its repetitive at that. You have to engage the same content multiple times in order to progress in a variety of different things.

Repetition isn't so much an issue. The grind isn't so much an issue. But its been my experience that organizing a group together within an LS or a PUG can take significant amounts of time. Sometimes the LS has things scheduled and I'm fortunate enough to be able to join - but usually not. If I could play many hours in a day - I would probably be willing to put up with it.

Now, coupled the amount of time it takes to get these things rolling and the RNG - its extremely demotivating. The less time you have to play, the more demotivating it is! As a physical trainer and someone who used to be over 300lbs - I know what happens when someone is demotivated.... they just give up!

My job is to keep my clients motivated (and hopefully moving). The devs job is to keep us motivated (and hopefully playing). I hope the developers do not stay on this path through 2.0 as many players will inevitably lose focus and any motivation to log in.

So yes, Jynx, I am my own worst enemy here. I'd rather log into Rift because I can better occupy my time in a variety of gameplay activities (though I much prefer the style, ambiance, combat and crafting of FF14). Just because I can't find a group for a raid, it doesn't prevent me from progressing in other areas. Just because the RNG bit my tail, it may prevent me from getting that cool item, but it doesn't prevent me from progressing other areas. And if I can't find a full group for a raid, we can at least attempt other content that is just as fun, engaging and appropriate for 3-4 of us.

Come 2.0, the dev team should really re-think things. It's fine to have content that has a high barrier of entry. It's not fine to rely on that content over and over and over again. In fact, having a wide range of content with a wide range of rewards is usually the best route to take.

Most casuals accept the fact that they will likely miss out on some of the really cool rewards. However, all they want is some engaging content to enjoy (and most are okay with grinding away) The occasional barrier is fine - but when it becomes an almost every day part of the game experience - its demotivating... blocking...

I hope what we're seeing here is only an innate result of the game being built with FF14 1.0 technology (it seems so).

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Originally Posted by Jinko

LOL did you just compare the outcome & importance of open heart surgery to a video game, surly my eyes deceive me.

Besides I would rather pick the one that has had the most success rate, as others have said casuals are quite capable of being good players, they just have less time to game.

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Same analogy then but instead with a group of soldiers. Its an analogy for a reason, i don't think gaming is anywhere near as complex as surgery, but clearly you missed the point. And no, your right, not all casuals are bad at all. Some are very experienced players who just can't log on as much. Totally get that. BUt my point is, if you gave me 2 large groups of players i didn't know, one hardcore, one casual, and said, pick 7 random people, your about to do content you have never attempted before, myself, and many people i would think, would pick the players with more time logged. Thats all I was saying. Didn't mean to make some broad generalization about any specific casual player. Just talking strait up odds.

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Originally Posted by Nieshua

Lol wtf do ppl have over 500 post on these forums do you post while crafting or something? This like your sec job? Play game for 8hrs then post for 4? ALL PPL WANT IS A FUCKING PROGRESS BAR!!!!!!!!!! Can you idiots that keep saying they want it easy read that and understand what it means? PROGRESS BAR....PROGRESS BAR!!!!!

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QQ about post counts elsewhere, probably preferably where someone may care.

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Originally Posted by Biggs

Pretty sure if someone asked me If I wanted the guy that was gonna do my open heart surgery to have 1000's of hours of experience or some asshat fresh outa medschool, I would pick the guy with more hours every time. SO would you.

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I wouldn't take either of them; I have my own trusty heart surgeon. XD

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Originally Posted by Seirra_Lanzce

i prefer grinding my way out to get Relic... :\ seems more better than RNG... ><

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Absolutely agreed.

Dunno if anyone posted this...not reading 40 pages of posts:

1UP: A couple things in the game right now that seem to be, as Final Fantasy XI players might say, are "haunted by the ghost of Tanaka." For example, the Relic weapon quests that were just added yesterday seem to rely very heavily on luck. And this kind of thing is really discouraging to a lot of players. An element of luck is okay, but effort is more important. And there's always the thought that, yeah, if I do this enough times, I might get lucky and get it, but there's always the fear that they won't. Especially after the Ifrit and other boss battles. I know people say that they fought 75 times and they haven't gotten a weapon yet, and they're just really frustrated, and they're upset to see that same thing happening in other systems. So are there any plans to adjust the luck/effort balance of high-level content in the future?

NY: We can tell you that at version 2.0, a lot of things are going to be changing in this aspect. For example, like a token type of system, where if you do it enough times, you're going to get rewarded for doing it that many times. We also have something else prepared as well that's going to address this… we can't talk about it now, but we have many things in place that will address that issue.

And the other thing being that, the real need for the Need, Greed, and Pass type of system when things get dropped, things that are pretty much a global standard that we haven't achieved yet on Final Fantasy XIV. We understand that we have those problems, but with the current system, we can't address them. But we will be able to address them in 2.0 with the new system and the new engines. And so you can go back and tell the community that, come 2.0, we will actually have that global standard and you won't have to worry as much about these types of things. But again, that doesn't mean we're going to forget about our current version players. We're going to listen to the voices of the players, look at the forums, adjust drop rates to reduce as much stress as possible for the players so they can experience this grand finale, the Seventh Umbral Era story, that ushers in 2.0.