Can we talk about how mnk, drg, and blm are blatantly overpowered right now?

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Originally Posted by Myon88

Well at least someone is more optimistic than I am, though for a change I'd be quite happy to be wrong.

My hunch is 5.08 and 5.1 will be nothing but qol changes to dot and egi assault related matters, and no potency changes at all except indirectly. They said as much during the live letter after all, potencies and output were not mentioned explicitly like in the case of ninja and samurai. That'll leave us with a job that plays very slightly better, but still has crippling flaws that have gone unnoticed like trances and energy drain having poor downtime flexibility. All this changes nothing about its pecking order relative to blm.

In the best case scenario, people realize this and smn engagement continues to plummet, the job will be sent back for another look over that won't happen till 5.2 - or later. Worst case, the job turns into machinist where any legitimate flaws are drowned out for good by people - who generally don't raid - talking about how flashy and fun the job is to play.

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They'll be buffed beyond belief, and all gameplay bugs fixed, and to celebrate, build another ultimate fight based around their cooldowns to the point they're borderline required in the fight to celebrate buffs. It feels eerily familiar....

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

5 months is a long time and we got two slated balance patches let alone what drops with 5.2

Don't worry, Summoner will be undisputed again. Won't that be fun for everyone.

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God you people are so negative lol we just want the crap mess of a job fixed, not to out damage BLM and send y’all to the dog house. Yes SE has been complete utter trash at balancing casters since SB but it still needs to happen before we are in the trash bin with the physical range dps.

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Originally Posted by Aomine1992

God you people are so negative lol we just want the crap mess of a job fixed, not to out damage BLM and send y’all to the dog house. Yes SE has been complete utter trash at balancing casters since SB but it still needs to happen before we are in the trash bin with the physical range dps.

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See, the thing is, I absolutely agree.

I generally don't like kneejerk "We need mo damage" no matter where it's sourced from. "More damage" has its own problems and effectively doesn't do much more than band aid the process, or at least, quiet the grumbling enough, but it also tends to lead to where we are now.

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Originally Posted by Aomine1992

God you people are so negative lol we just want the crap mess of a job fixed, not to out damage BLM and send y’all to the dog house. Yes SE has been complete utter trash at balancing casters since SB but it still needs to happen before we are in the trash bin with the physical range dps.

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They're nowhere near the trash bin. Physical ranged are nowhere near the trash bin either. I feel like this is more a matter of perspective of being demoted from god status for years, to a little under the meta being too much of a shock to handle. Not being in 80% of party comps isn't the trash bin, that's what everyone else had to deal with, and they were far worse off.

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Originally Posted by Sequora

For me, it's not the homogenization; it's the way casters are balanced. Right now, the optimal way to learn and clear content is to use SMN (or RDM) first because of raise and switch to BLM for farming. No other roll has to deal with that. Playing one roll for clearing content, and then another for farming. The raise tax on SMN and RDM are way too high. Balance casters like ranged are balanced. BLM is high damage no utility, SMN is slightly lower damage, some utility, and make RDM low damage, high utility.

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If you haven't noticed, they are removing utilities for homogenization right? In the name of "balance".

And if what you said is so, mnk would have been the job that has least buff and utility even less than SAM atm.

If the gap between BLM and both SMN and RDM's DPS is about a 1.5k - 2k difference, compared to HW and SB with the gap only being about less than 500, then I think there's actually a problem. This is not similar to the past issue of SMN being better than BLM in past expansions, this is a lot worse.

Actually, it's not just the caster roles. There's a huge gap in DPS for all of these jobs compared to past expansions and it's baffling. I'm only a mere casual player so my opinion might be flawed.

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

If the gap between BLM and both SMN and RDM's DPS is about a 1.5k - 2k difference, compared to HW and SB with the gap only being about less than 500, then I think there's actually a problem. This is not similar to the past issue of SMN being better than BLM in past expansions, this is a lot worse.

Actually, it's not just the caster roles. There's a huge gap in DPS for all of these jobs compared to past expansions and it's baffling. I'm only a mere casual player so my opinion might be flawed.

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Yes, it's flawed.

Summoner and Red Mage are currently not as desirable.

However, when Summoner was higher across the board, Black Mage was -obsolete-. That's a far worse fate.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Yes, it's flawed.

Summoner and Red Mage are currently not as desirable.

However, when Summoner was higher across the board, Black Mage was -obsolete-. That's a far worse fate.

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Honestly, seeing the gap now, I really do feel like people were too pressed about the numbers, but BLM totally deserved to be on top rather than SMN. I was pretty comfortable with where SMN was around late SB being lower than BLM but right now it's just too much.

I've played MNK mainly since 2.0. I've always done it despite good or bad as the class was at specific times.

I see people's issue against MNK's dps when compared to SAM - and frankly, I agree. SAM should be the melee BLM as intended.

Nerfing is not the solution here. Rather than nerf MNK, they should just boost SAM up to BLM level or close to. SAM and BLM should be the ones competing for personal dps.

MNK should be under that along with DRG - however DRG has more raid buffs than MNK benefiting the actual functino of both roles, DPS. So either have MNK have more personal DPS than DRG while having less buffs or level both of these classes in terms of buffs to one another and have them occupy that moderate damage/moderate buffing potential.

As for NIN - either make it be proper support like a melee DNC; which they seem to be moving away from... or bring it in line with MNK/DRG, so that we have a triad of melee support for the big hitters.

I don't mind roles, I don't mind uniqueness - I love uniqueness and would welcome it. This discussion, regardless of this notion, shows that truly what needs to happen 'at this time' is really to bring these 'support' (now mildly as SE seems intent on moving away from support?) back in line with their personal numbers. Support capabilities should complete the class's personal capabilities. What balance comes from it should never make variations be significant - otherwise you get the extremes mentioned where x amount of classes is preferred rather than x+y+z.

Mind you, this is ignoring how poor MNK's design is still. This is the greatest crime of the class, and the biggest gripe I have (and maybe others?) with it. A discombobulated kit whose only saving grace is the same buttons we press repeatedly since 2.0.

Another big issue is the fact GL is a % damage boost, and considering Stat inflation, this will keep becoming worse and worse as 1% damage nerf or buff into GL mechanic will bring greater and greater oscilations.

There is a lot fundamentally wrong with MNK, and simply because it provides dps numbers doesn't mean the class's issues are not there. Frankly I think it would be a lot easier to balance if the class had evolved and had a concise overall mechanic with its own complexity. Rather than it being a 1+1+1, it should be 3.

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Originally Posted by Fhyrr

I've played MNK mainly since 2.0. I've always done it despite good or bad as the class was at specific times.

I see people's issue against MNK's dps when compared to SAM - and frankly, I agree. SAM should be the melee BLM as intended.

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Buffing all other jobs to X rDPS is still a relative nerf to whoever is already at that rDPS, just the same as if you had just nerfed them directly to bring them in line with a non-godtier job. The only difference is you've just wrecked the difficulty of content in the process, where you would otherwise have only made things a little bit harder for formerly meta compositions while making things easier for formerly non-meta compositions (a byproduct of opening the meta to all jobs).

Stop. Power creeping. The game.

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Originally Posted by Zerathor

They'll be buffed beyond belief, and all gameplay bugs fixed, and to celebrate, build another ultimate fight based around their cooldowns to the point they're borderline required in the fight to celebrate buffs. It feels eerily familiar....

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Worry not my black mage friend, if you'd been paying attention to any of the threads summoners were making since the media tour (yes, that long ago), you'd know that the job no longer has the capacity to tailor its cooldown use around fight downtime. Little fixes to egi assault apm don't address this at all, it'll just stop people joking about getting RSI from playing the job.

That's how it worked by the way, it's not the fight being 'based around their cooldowns' like some kind of favourtism, but aetherflow letting good players adapt their cooldowns to any fight. No more hoarding aetherflow while doing mechanics for trios or waiting for ultima to spawn, and then bursting hard in the short time the target is visible. Instead of a shotgun you can reload in downtime and choose when to fire, summoner is now holding a garden sprinkler and you just have to hope it's pointing at your target when you want it to. Like bards in hw and machinists in sb, this is a massive design flaw that likely won't be looked at until next expansion.

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Originally Posted by Myon88

Worry not my black mage friend, if you'd been paying attention to any of the threads summoners were making since the media tour (yes, that long ago), you'd know that the job no longer has the capacity to tailor its cooldown use around fight downtime. Little fixes to egi assault apm don't address this at all, it'll just stop people joking about getting RSI from playing the job.

That's how it worked by the way, it's not the fight being 'based around their cooldowns' like some kind of favourtism, but aetherflow letting good players adapt their cooldowns to any fight. No more hoarding aetherflow while doing mechanics for trios or waiting for ultima to spawn, and then bursting hard in the short time the target is visible. Instead of a shotgun you can reload in downtime and choose when to fire, summoner is now holding a garden sprinkler and you just have to hope it's pointing at your target when you want it to. Like bards in hw and machinists in sb, this is a massive design flaw that likely won't be looked at until next expansion.

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And I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they reverted to the broken bs it once was. It must be so heart breaking to hold cool downs and not burn them as soon as they come up for zero consequence... like every other job in the damn game. The tragedy... smn can't use "muh skill" to press a button once every 60 seconds to use their burst at their leisure in a fight. Imagine for a moment if any other job had that kind of nonsense. "Oh battle litany is up? ah damn the boss jumped, guess I have to hold it" "TA is up, but the party wont get a good time to burst its full duration, better hold it" "battle voice is up, but the boss is jumping soon" "ley lines are ready, but I'll only get one gcd in before i need to abandon them" ect, ect, ect.

but aetherflow then? "hur dur, 60 second have passed. I'll use these ogcd's when i feel like it. This also gets to control all my other nonsense ability's effective cool down."

But no, the job that effectively didn't have to care about cooldowns for sure didn't have a fight with that much downtime built around them for that. And certainly not for a large mechanic of the fight being a double target phase either, where no other job can even justify doing duo target damage... except for the Mary Sue caster.

As far as I'm concerned, they got welcomed to what everyone else has to deal with.

But just watch. These little brats will get another fight tailored to them. Because they have in the past, and they whine harder than warriors used to when any other tank had a shred more relevance than them.

If they balance things around the current monk rdps the balance for the current savage will be broken...
everything will be overpowered too much, as much as i hate tuning down, fhey are needed sometime

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Originally Posted by Zerathor

It must be so heart breaking to hold cool downs and not burn them as soon as they come up for zero consequence... like every other job in the damn game. The tragedy... smn can't use "muh skill" to press a button once every 60 seconds to use their burst at their leisure in a fight. Imagine for a moment if any other job had that kind of nonsense.

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laughs in polyglot

It feels pretty good to save up stacks and triple foul the adds the e1s, meanwhile summoners are complaining if those adds die too fast they lose a phoenix due to bad timing. Or double tapping Leviathan with xenoglossy before he disappears, and then continuing to build charges and hearts during maelstrom while everyone else is holding cooldowns. Ah it's good to be the king, meanwhile the only thing those summoners have that has charges are their 40 potency egi assaults ahaha.

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Originally Posted by Myon88

laughs in polyglot

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ha yes, one strong gcd every 30 seconds was 100% equivalent to 3 ogcd's (which alone provided more than polygot, even now if that were still the case) that also fed dwt and bahamut. Totally. Thats more like pretending polygot reset leylines, and triple cast each tic. "Oh don't worry guys, my polygot will carry grand octet, for sure, 100% better than wyrm wave I swearsies. No, bahamut doesn't line up on that phase because it was tailored for summoner, its just coincidence, really"

Ah it's funny you bring up octet, I hear summoner's got it pretty bad in ucob now, there's no better example of how much of a liability their new design is than that.

Between all the downtime that now hurts their job design, egi assault traits not being fully active at 70 making them even more pointless, and no 1min bahamuts because that trait is at 72. It must feel truly miserable to play there now, so I'm glad I got that out of the way when the job was in a good state.

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Originally Posted by Myon88

Ah it's funny you bring up octet, I hear summoner's got it pretty bad in ucob now, there's no better example of how much of a liability their new design is than that.

Between all the downtime that now hurts their job design, egi assault traits not being fully active at 70 making them even more pointless, and no 1min bahamuts because that trait is at 72. It must feel truly miserable to play there now, so I'm glad I got that out of the way when the job was in a good state.

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I really don't feel any sympathy for a smn that didn't clear that fight in stormblood when it was made for them. Still, I find it odd that you even care about smn. You don't seem to care which job is in the meta, you'll just change to pick up whatever has the leading edge, which is pretty nice I must say. To flat out jump from ranged physical to smn soley for the advantage it had I presume, and to do well with it. That's nice adaptation without really caring what job you're on, so long as you're on the best current job. So really, what do you really care about the current state of smn? Did you just enjoy double weaving ogcds because it seemed more active when you weren't in r3 spam phase 66% of the time?

Oh yes I enjoy all the ranged and caster jobs in this game, so I'm quite happy to switch around if necessary. In order to progress fights quickly a solid raise caster player is the 2nd most important person after the healers, so better for it to be me than someone else. Likewise blm is amazing now so why wouldn't you play blm over rdm/smn, especially now that prog is over, I wouldn't be respecting my group's time otherwise.

But I also enjoy a balanced game, I have a soft spot for the underdogs after seeing what happened to machinist after heavensward, and of the 6 ranged and caster jobs only 1 is in a good spot right now.

DNC need some minor buffs like making Saber dance OGC or increased Potency for Standard/Technical finish for every weapon skill your dance partner uses during Step is active. :p

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Originally Posted by Myon88

But I also enjoy a balanced game, I have a soft spot for the underdogs after seeing what happened to machinist after heavensward, and of the 6 ranged and caster jobs only 1 is in a good spot right now.

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Good luck with that one since a not insignificant amount of people here think that physical and magical ranged roles should be worse than melee so that every raid brings 2 melee and only 1 physical ranged and 1 magical ranged.

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Originally Posted by Zerathor

They're nowhere near the trash bin. Physical ranged are nowhere near the trash bin either. I feel like this is more a matter of perspective of being demoted from god status for years, to a little under the meta being too much of a shock to handle. Not being in 80% of party comps isn't the trash bin, that's what everyone else had to deal with, and they were far worse off.

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this Isn’t about meta but okay, no one is advocating to be back in God tier status. this is more about the state that the job is in now compared to how it flowed better in SB. If Someone is advocating to be back God tier then they are playing SMN for the wrong reasons but for the rest of us who love the job we want Legitimate fixes I don’t care about being a lower tiered dps but at least make the job flow better then this double and triple weave everything and loose dots if not used precisely at this second.

The trash bin thing is a figure of speech that you should be familiar with since you are advocating for BLM. Every expansion has had their trash bin classes which BLM spent majority of storm blood in. I’m actually one of the few SMNs who agreed that we were too strong majority of SB and that BLM should have that spot but not in this way, this way is inexcusably bad.

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Originally Posted by Zerathor

Salt

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Watch your blood pressure man.

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Originally Posted by Zerathor

I really don't feel any sympathy for a smn that didn't clear that fight in stormblood when it was made for them. Still, I find it odd that you even care about smn. You don't seem to care which job is in the meta, you'll just change to pick up whatever has the leading edge, which is pretty nice I must say. To flat out jump from ranged physical to smn soley for the advantage it had I presume, and to do well with it. That's nice adaptation without really caring what job you're on, so long as you're on the best current job. So really, what do you really care about the current state of smn? Did you just enjoy double weaving ogcds because it seemed more active when you weren't in r3 spam phase 66% of the time?

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Feel like you asked for some salt on your fries at a Mcdonalds 5 years ago and, they're still piling it on. You don't care about balance, you just want to get even. If we're going to taking turns being the meta class, when is it RDMs turn? we've been dumpster since the first wave of BLM, MCH, and SMN buffs at the beginning of SB and thats held true to this day.

Inb4 vEr4zlSe even though a caster rez never stopped SMN. i guess it's the Cure

(doesn't actually care if rdm is meta but im making an example to point out the fact that this guy is a BLM who's got it good and has completely forgot when he didn't have anything)

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Originally Posted by Wayfinder3

Feel like you asked for some salt on your fries at a Mcdonalds 5 years ago and, they're still piling it on. You don't care about balance, you just want to get even. If we're going to taking turns being the meta class, when is it RDMs turn? we've been dumpster since the first wave of BLM, MCH, and SMN buffs at the beginning of SB and thats held true to this day.

Inb4 vEr4zlSe even though a caster rez never stopped SMN. i guess it's the Cure

(doesn't actually care if rdm is meta but im making an example to point out the fact that this guy is a BLM who's got it good and has completely forgot when he didn't have anything)

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haha, oh I remember. I remember what ACTUALLY being in a bad spot was. This? This isn't it. If you consider this me wanting to "get even", they'd have to sink even lower. If this was considered getting even, I'd feel scammed. Let me know when your statics start requiring you to change jobs or be kicked, then we'll talk about what a job in a bad spot means.

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Originally Posted by Zerathor

Let me know when your statics start requiring you to change jobs or be kicked, then we'll talk about what a job in a bad spot means.

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UM, RDMs being forced to switch to SMN/BLM has been apart the jobs stigma since patch 4.1. Even JP RDM players meme the fact that the job is always being forced into the more meta counterparts, so if you’re going to play that card about how you feel like you BLMs got scammed when you’re unquestionably the best caster/ranged dps in the game right now is pretty hilarious.

If you’re going to cry about how good you’ve got it, don’t actually do it to the players of the actual worst DPS in the game who’ve got no confirmation or hope of any sort of change

Um, most static SMN/BLM i know is forced to bring a wand in their clear run...

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Originally Posted by Wayfinder3

UM, RDMs being forced to switch to SMN/BLM has been apart the jobs stigma since patch 4.1. Even JP RDM players meme the fact that the job is always being forced into the more meta counterparts, so if you’re going to play that card about how you feel like you BLMs got scammed when you’re unquestionably the best caster/ranged dps in the game right now is pretty hilarious.

If you’re going to cry about how good you’ve got it, don’t actually do it to the players of the actual worst DPS in the game who’ve got no confirmation or hope of any sort of change

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ah yes, rdm's have been forced to change jobs since 4.1. Thats why they have nearly equal the amount of clears as smn in each savage fight during stormblood, of course, how silly of me. Seriously, are you from a different timeline or something? As far as where they are now? they should be a little higher than they currently are.

Also, I don't feel blm got scammed atm. I stated if I actually wanted the other 2 casters to be where blm used to be (like what all of your are implying) I would feel scammed.

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Originally Posted by Zerathor

ah yes, rdm's have been forced to change jobs since 4.1. Thats why they have nearly equal the amount of clears as smn in each savage fight during stormblood, of course, how silly of me. Seriously, are you from a different timeline or something? As far as where they are now? they should be a little higher than they currently are.

Also, I don't feel blm got scammed atm. I stated if I actually wanted the other 2 casters to be where blm used to be (like what all of your are implying) I would feel scammed.

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Oh yeah, the new dps has a lot of clears in savage during the expansion it was released in. Guess that’s a little odd but if we look at samurai. Samurai’s consistenly have more clears than MNK even though the job was the undisputed worse melee for so much of that Expansion. It’s pretty biased to look at the new dps and say, RDM is better than BLM because of clear rates alone even though I’d we look at Ultimates, both of them were crazy out classed by SMN. Knowing you, this is the part where you mention rdm still had more ultimate clears than BLM and so BLM was worse off by that metric and need adjustments.

If that’s the game we’re playing, BLM has way more clears than RDM (the job designed to contribute to clearing content and that also plays into why it has more than BLM) currently and so by your metric, we’re entitled to a lot of what BLM has been smoking lately.

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Originally Posted by Siccoroa

Can we talk about how monk, dragoon, black mage, and, to a lesser extent, samurai are overpowered right now?

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Answer: No.

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Originally Posted by Zerathor

Let me know when your statics start requiring you to change jobs or be kicked, then we'll talk about what a job in a bad spot means.

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Biggest theorycraft right now is the fact that ranged dps as a whole might just be another prog job at this point and it might just be better to bring a 2nd BLM, 6 jobs have around that same rdps. I'd say the entire dps meta is problematic right now?

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Originally Posted by Zerathor

Let me know when your statics start requiring you to change jobs or be kicked, then we'll talk about what a job in a bad spot means.

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GOD the self centered closed perspective selfishness in this post is hard for me to stomach.

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Originally Posted by Wayfinder3

If you’re going to cry about how good you’ve got it, don’t actually do it to the players of the actual worst DPS in the game who’ve got no confirmation or hope of any sort of change

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Say that again.

Talking to Zerathor again here on:
AND btw most NIN mains are ABSOLUTELY being kicked and asked to leave parties or change to monk in statics. Im a freaking 65th percentile+ NIN and my static that I RUN and have run in the past has members that have threatened to leave if I wouldn't switch to monk. When 90th percentile NIN performs worse than a 10th percentile MNK there are freaking problems.

AND FREAKING REGARDLESS YOU CANT LOOK FOR FREAKING REPARATIONS AND CONTINUE TO BE BUTTHURT FOR LIFE OR THE WORLD AND GAME WILL NEVER PROGRESS.

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Originally Posted by Vendalwind

GOD the self centered closed perspective selfishness in this post is hard for me to stomach.



Say that again.

Talking to Zerathor again here on:
AND btw most NIN mains are ABSOLUTELY being kicked and asked to leave parties or change to monk in statics. Im a freaking 65th percentile+ NIN and my static that I RUN and have run in the past has members that have threatened to leave if I wouldn't switch to monk. When 90th percentile NIN performs worse than a 10th percentile MNK there are freaking problems.

AND FREAKING REGARDLESS YOU CANT LOOK FOR FREAKING REPARATIONS AND CONTINUE TO BE BUTTHURT FOR LIFE OR THE WORLD AND GAME WILL NEVER PROGRESS.

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Ninja is in a bad spot, and I believe I've said that somewhere already. My primary concerns on what I've recently talked about regards casters. Ninja does actually need a buff where its at. Idk what direction they want to buff it if it's more personal damage, or better buff contributions, but it does need something.

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Originally Posted by Vendalwind

GOD the self centered closed perspective selfishness in this post is hard for me to stomach.

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And now you know where the rest of us sit when we read a thread like this.

Because everything we've offered in advice is what got told to us.

"Get a new static."
"Just get better. Bring the player, not the job."
"Play what you like."
"You can clear so it's fine."

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Because everything we've offered in advice is what got told to us.

"Get a new static."
"Just get better. Bring the player, not the job."
"Play what you like."
"You can clear so it's fine."

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Stop proliferating. This is like having daddy issues then deciding to be a bully at school.

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Originally Posted by Vendalwind

Stop proliferating. This is like having daddy issues then deciding to be a bully at school.

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Projecting much?

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Originally Posted by Vendalwind

Stop proliferating. This is like having daddy issues then deciding to be a bully at school.

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It's valid advice, man.

You really don't want static members who harp on you for the job you play.
(Mine don't, and in return I take the needs of the static first when picking a job each tier)

65th is a bit above average, so you can do a lot better. (average of course depending on who you ask)
(Any encounter I do the same as previous I count as a failure on my part.)

if you like ninja, stay on it.
(I coincidentally tend to like a fair amount of jobs.)

Ninja was capable of clearing every wing week 1. Not every Ninja player is. Same with every other job.
(It's okay not to clear week 1 for any reason)

If you feel you aren't contributing enough to your team, and that bothers you, then change jobs. It not only broadens you as a player, it offers perspective into the challenges other jobs face, as well as doing wonders to dispelling any held notions regarding the job through word of mouth.
(Turns out Stormblood Machinist wasn't as bad as people made it out to be. It was actually a ton of fun)

"ask for more balance between jobs on official forum" also sounds like a valid advice...

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

It's valid advice, man.

You really don't want static members who harp on you for the job you play.
(Mine don't, and in return I take the needs of the static first when picking a job each tier)

65th is a bit above average, so you can do a lot better. (average of course depending on who you ask)
(Any encounter I do the same as previous I count as a failure on my part.)

if you like ninja, stay on it.
(I coincidentally tend to like a fair amount of jobs.)

Ninja was capable of clearing every wing week 1. Not every Ninja player is. Same with every other job.
(It's okay not to clear week 1 for any reason)

If you feel you aren't contributing enough to your team, and that bothers you, then change jobs. It not only broadens you as a player, it offers perspective into the challenges other jobs face, as well as doing wonders to dispelling any held notions regarding the job through word of mouth.
(Turns out Stormblood Machinist wasn't as bad as people made it out to be. It was actually a ton of fun)

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These points are all irrelevant, good job balance shouldn't be at the mercy of the players, especially when difficulty isn't even a factor and the hardest jobs don't require much more skill than the weaker ones. It's bad job balance and the best thing you both should do is look for ways to make reprimands instead trying to brush everyone off as being insensitive to the BLM position of yesterday. The future is now and the 2 of you circle jerking the like button of each others ludicrously misguided and unself aware prattle is only making the community less interested in the future of BLM when all the lower jobs want is to be better than where we currently are. BLM has twice as many RDM clears of titan when clearing content is RDMs entire purpose before being discarded for jobs of which BLM is one. MNK has 3 times as many clears of titan than NIN, DRG has 6 times as many. WHM and SCH have nearly 8k kills, AST has 8....hundred. How is any of this balanced, How can either of you defend any of this. 2 BLMs is currently looking to be better than any physical ranged, this is beyond stupid

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Originally Posted by Wayfinder3

These points are all irrelevant, good job balance shouldn't be at the mercy of the players, especially when difficulty isn't even a factor and the hardest jobs don't require much more skill than the weaker ones. It's bad job balance and the best thing you both should do is look for ways to make reprimands instead trying to brush everyone off as being insensitive to the BLM position of yesterday. The future is now and the 2 of you circle jerking the like button of each others ludicrously misguided and unself aware prattle is only making the community less interested in the future of BLM when all the lower jobs want is to be better than where we currently are. BLM has twice as many RDM clears of titan when clearing content is RDMs entire purpose before being discarded for jobs of which BLM is one. MNK has 3 times as many clears of titan than NIN, DRG has 6 times as many. WHM and SCH have nearly 8k kills, AST has 8....hundred. How is any of this balanced, How can either of you defend any of this. 2 BLMs is currently looking to be better than any physical ranged, this is beyond stupid

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I don't hit like buttons.

How many times are we going to do this song and dance? Things aren't perfect, they can be better. I'm not inconsistent on this point. But they aren't as bad as people make them out to be.

It might be a little bit of hyperbole to say "everything is fine" but it's no less, perhaps even more damning, to spout "This is the worst state it's ever been in", either specific to job or overall.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

I don't hit like buttons.

How many times are we going to do this song and dance? Things aren't perfect, they can be better. I'm not inconsistent on this point. But they aren't as bad as people make them out to be.

It might be a little bit of hyperbole to say "everything is fine" but it's no less, perhaps even more damning, to spout "This is the worst state it's ever been in", either specific to job or overall.

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when Double WHM, and Double BLM are completely viable compositions while excluding 2 whole healers and an entire Role for 1 job, not ever the other 2 casters, then we have a problem and it's pretty bad. It's not the worst job balance in any mmo ever, but it's bad. This song and dance ends when you guys stop telling SMN, RDMs, BRDs, MCHs, and DNCs, that taking 2 BLMs over any of them is not that bad.(even if you've not said that in your own words.) Stop playing devils advocate and i can assure you, this all stops. MNK BLM and DRG are BLATANTLY overpowered in some of the worst ways and WHM is just as big of an offender. Tanks are the only role they got right this expac even if WARs and DRKs would like more, the 4 of them are so close that there isn't that much of a difference for it to be a huge priority