Things to think about before you call someone "Bad"

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

Admittedly, I haven't been following this conversation because I've been playing defense on something i misspoke about, this did catch my eye. I'm just gonna take this line to its logical conclusion. If several different players in different instances, who don't even know each other, all say the same thing, like heal more, as an example, then maybe the "offended" player should heal more in this example.

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If you are playing a healer and anything goes wrong, every single person is going to most likely complain about your healing role. But you are still assuming that the person complaining is right. If it happens however, very often, it is likely you are doing something wrong as a healer; the causes, I don't know, it could be because they are new, have low expectations, play the game occasionally or even have some sort of physical/mental handicap, it could be a lot of things. The "they refuse to learn" line is the easiest one to assume because it gives you automatic permission to go wild on whoever you think is doing something wrong.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

...how is "heals????" drawing away any potential responsibility that tank might had?

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Because if this is all they say then the implication is that the issue is only the healer's fault.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

If you are playing a healer and anything goes wrong, every single person is going to most likely complain about your healing role. But you are still assuming that the person complaining is right. If it happens however, very often, it is likely you are doing something wrong as a healer; the causes, I don't know, it could be because they are new, have low expectations, play the game occasionally or even have some sort of physical/mental handicap, it could be a lot of things. The "they refuse to learn" line is the easiest one to assume because it gives you automatic permission to go wild on whoever you think is doing something wrong.

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I can honestly refute this, because my main role during stormbloods first month, my main was an AST. When things went south, my heals were rarely a subject, and when they were, I took the criticism and suggestions, and I adjusted to become a better healer. And this was before I joined the raiding scene. Seems to me that giving a player either criticism or suggestions automatically equates to harassment or close to harassment. Tanks and dps can easily be subjected to criticism and suggestions as well.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

...how is "heals????" drawing away any potential responsibility that tank might had? When I die despite having a cooldown up and dodging every attack I can, its very much the healers fault - I did all in my power to prevent my death.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

I realise that my version is only one of many that can exist

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Exactly.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

but so is yours (the one in which the tank didnt do their share), yet you made such a general statment out of it, that I felt the need to correct that a bit.

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Not the way I see it. I said that a tank who automatically replies with a "heals????????" is automatically putting all the blame on the healer (whether they are right or wrong, that's a different story), and that that comment will often not be welcomed by the other side (for obvious reasons) we agree on that one right? Like I don't write 10 question marks all while thinking I may have had part of responsibility there?

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Originally Posted by Vidu

You can die from many things - not using your cooldowns, not doing mechanics correctly, someone else not doing mechanics correctly... but a healer not healing is very much possible aswell. And asking them to perform their primary job-function at that point isnt harassment (at least when done without adding "you noob" at the end). Asking someone to pay attention and perform their basic role isnt harassment.

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Depending on when and how you do it, it can be naturally perceived as a hostile reaction in the heat of the moment.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

It comes off as hostile though. The 90 question marks are not needed. You are already setting the grounds for bad things to happen in that run. If for whatever reason, the healer makes another mistake, what are you going to do, add 1 question mark to your already 90? Most likely a recrimination or two are going to slip, and from there it all goes downhill. The underperformer won't learn a thing, and the only thing you'll manage for them to obtain in that run is a bitter experience.

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It’s 3 question marks and they’re calling out the healer who is in charge of healing the party along with their cohealer. No amount of crying and yelling “harrassment” will change that they do have a responsibility when in any raid. In the end, the other players could easily not say anything and just kick you for being a bad healer who is too busy making mistakes. No one has any obligations to teach you how to play your class on their own time, especially not in a clear/farm party.

Speaking of bitter experiences, wonder how many bads go back and reflect on how little they did during shinryu. Very few most likely considering that you still see the same mistakes being made on savage content.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Because if this is all they say then the implication is that the issue is only the healer's fault.

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Is that the implication, or your interpretation? Assuming the best of hypothetical Tank Man here, there is no implication and it's an explicit "where was the healing?"

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

I can honestly refute this, because my main role during stormbloods first month, my main was an AST. When things went south, my heals were rarely a subject, and when they were, I took the criticism and suggestions, and I adjusted to become a better healer. And this was before I joined the raiding scene. Seems to me that giving a player either criticism or suggestions automatically equates to harassment or close to harassment. Tanks and dps can easily be subjected to criticism and suggestions as well.

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I explained myself poorly. I meant that if anything goes wrong in a way that it looks like the situation is lacking some healing, people will most likely complain about your healing role. Whether they are right or wrong is a whole different story, but you sort of assumed in your other post that whenever someone complains about you they are going to be right about it.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

If you are playing a healer and anything goes wrong, every single person is going to most likely complain about your healing role. But you are still assuming that the person complaining is right. If it happens however, very often, it is likely you are doing something wrong as a healer; the causes, I don't know, it could be because they are new, have low expectations, play the game occasionally or even have some sort of physical/mental handicap, it could be a lot of things. The "they refuse to learn" line is the easiest one to assume because it gives you automatic permission to go wild on whoever you think is doing something wrong.

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You are, again, coming up with a lot of explantions why someone might be struggling - all of them more or less legit, depending on the content ("They're new" isnt legit anymore when you're in The Burn).
Explantions are all fine and dandy, but that still doesnt make it okay for those players to be just outright carried by strangers. When we're talking about group-content, we should expect that everyone in the group is able to contribute to this group-effort in a meanigful way that fits their role. My philosophy is that if someone is struggling with something, that they should disclose that - and by that I dont mean disclosing that they have depression or are playing with their feet, but to inform your party that you might not be able to meet the baseline expectations and ask them if they're okay with that.
Also: if you know that you're struggling for whatever reason, you shouldnt pick a vital role like healer or tank.

I also found that often people dont "refuse to learn", but are not aware that they even need to, thanks to the bad feedback-system the game has.
If a healer isnt healing me enough I can spam clemency on myself, the DPS and in very disturbing cases, the healer to keep us all alive. The healer did a shitty job, regardless of that, we cleared the boss and the healer leaves thinking "Well, I must have done a good job here, no one died!" when in realtiy they did such a poor job that I sacrificed my strongest DPS-skill in order to heal through.

Regardless of your personal circumstances: Its your personal responsibility to go into group-content prepared and able to perform well (enough) within realistic, basic gameplay-expectations. And unless you show that despite your shortcoming you respect your team and the time other people put into this dungeon (for example by leaving a quick "Hey, I'm new to this dungeon/job! Might mess up, but giving my best!"), I dont care about your circumstances. If you just expect me to pick up your slack and show me that you dont care for your team - why should the team care for you?
I shouldnt have to guess which of the 500 possible explantions fit you if you're playing subpar. And I dont want to go around and assume that everyone who havent figured out their rotation at level 70 is mentally challenged or plays only with their nose because they broke both arms and legs.

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Originally Posted by Daibunnie

It’s 3 question marks and they’re calling out the healer who is in charge of healing the party along with their cohealer. No amount of crying and yelling “harrassment” will change that they do have a responsibility when in any raid. In the end, the other players could easily not say anything and just kick you for being a bad healer who is too busy making mistakes. No one has any obligations to teach you how to play your class on their own time, especially not in a clear/farm party.

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I'm talking more specifically in the context of a random dungeon with random people. In the context of a PF with certain requirements, you are on your complete right to kick someone if you think they are not pulling their weight. I still think you can do it politely though.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

If you have nothing to do with toxic people, I don't see how you should be offended by what you quoted. I present it as a problem because toxic people are a reality nowadays, if you don't consider toxic yourself there's no reason why you should be alluded by anything I've said.

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There you go again, backpedaling. This is the same nonsense excuse used in Tumblr/SJW circles. A person doesn't need to be personally offended to point out the blatant hypocrisy of a generalization. If you don't want people potentially taking offense, don't insult an entire community because you dislike a couple raiders. It would be no less ignorant and foolhardy of me to say "Casuals suck at the game."

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Originally Posted by Gallus

I've been calm in all my posts. I still condemn what I think is a problem and something that I think hurts more than helps. That's my stance. It's not called presenting an opinion as a fact. It's called having a different opinion than yours. You seem to be the one a bit more altered judging by your increasingly contemptuous tone every time you give an answer.

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When you make remarks like "You're allowed to be polite," this is you deeming yourself the authority of what is and isn't polite. Your personal values and qualifies are not universal. What you deem impolite or "toxic," others won't. If it were merely an opinion, you wouldn't keep insisting your idea of harassment is harassment. As for myself, I'm quite amused. I just happen to point more fun whenever I feel someone is being disingenuous.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

Which means you've come here to discuss about an anecdote, sounds realistic.

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No less so than made up generalizations.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

Exactly.



Not the way I see it. I said that a tank who automatically replies with a "heals????????" is automatically putting all the blame on the healer (whether they are right or wrong, that's a different story), and that that comment will often not be welcomed by the other side (for obvious reasons) we agree on that one right? Like I don't write 10 question marks all while thinking I may have had part of responsibility there?



Depending on when and how you do it, it can be naturally perceived as a hostile reaction in the heat of the moment.

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I hope that "Exactly" doesnt only mean you agree with me presenting only one version of a possible story, but also with you only presenting one version of the possible story...

That aside: So we can agree that telling a healer who let the tank (or anyone else for that matter) die, when the tank (or anyone else) did everything in their power to prevent that from happening "You need to heal me" or "Please heal me" isnt harassment? Because when I die to the autoattack after a tankbuster for which I had sentinel, schiltron and reprisal up, I'll do that.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Is that the implication, or your interpretation? Assuming the best of hypothetical Tank Man here, there is no implication and it's an explicit "where was the healing?"

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Well that's basically what I'm saying. That particular phrasing is highlighting only one aspect of the fight, and therefore intending to put the blame on the healer.

As an aside the times I usually see stuff like "heals????" is often from tanks who pulls loads of packs and use no defensive cds. In general when I see decent tanks who don't get enough healing for multi-pack pulls they just say nothing and simply pull less packs at a time.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

within realistic, basic gameplay-expectations.

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That line is going to differ significantly from one player to another. Duty Finder content is easy to the point I've seen some lvl 70 dungeons be soloed by a PLD, it shouldn't generally put too much stress or pressure on people, even if there is someone underperforming. There is never going to be a situation where all 4 players are contributing exactly the same.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

Yeah let's keep endlessly arguing over the semantics over and over again, because that's what you do in the 50% of the content of your posts.

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People wouldn't keep arguing semantics over and over with you if you stopped changing the story and crutch of your argument every time someone debunks it and you fumble to come up with another excuse that still treads water.

You've shifted the goal posts so many times that you'd make a great Blitzball AI goalie in FFX at this point.

"Heals????" basically states you feel you died because you weren't healed. So you put full responsibility for the death on the healer.

That said, to a degree I can understand it. There's nothing worse as a tank than dying, despite trying everything you can and the party assumes you stood in something or derped on cd's and gives you the tolerant "let's try again" attitude or even worse a "lol tank". So you place the blame automatically where you feel it's deserved, before the assumptions can be made. But then you don't know exactly what happened and no healer would like unfair blame thrown at them instantly. Like in the same way if a dps died to an add while you were mitigating an important mechanic or your mouse died and they instantly threw "tank????" at you, you might not like it. So perhaps a "what happened?" could work better.

But hardly the worst thing to say, especially if your overall attitude is friendly enough. Not sure why there's multiple pages over this.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Well that's basically what I'm saying. That particular phrasing is highlighting only one aspect of the fight, and therefore intending to put the blame on the healer.

As an aside the times I usually see stuff like "heals????" is often from tanks who pulls loads of packs and use no defensive cds. In general when I see decent tanks who don't get enough healing for multi-pack pulls they just say nothing and simply pull less packs at a time.

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I mean, it's also worth noting that it's highlighting the most important part of the fight to the tank--incoming heals.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

I mean, it's also worth noting that it's highlighting the most important part of the fight to the tank--incoming heals.

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Okay but I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with this? No one is arguing against this.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

and they instantly threw "tank????" at you, you might not like it. So perhaps a "what happened?" could work better.

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I rarely see "tank???" and I don't think I have ever seen "dps???"

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

If you don't want people potentially taking offense, don't insult an entire community because you dislike a couple raiders. It would be no less ignorant and foolhardy of me to say "Casuals suck at the game."

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I haven't insulted an entire community, however, how you interpret things is completely out of my hand. Same goes for assuming I dislike raiders (not once, twice), when I haven't even talked about raiders at all.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

When you make remarks like "You're allowed to be polite," this is you deeming yourself the authority of what is and isn't polite. Your personal values and qualifies are not universal. What you deem impolite or "toxic," others won't. If it were merely an opinion, you wouldn't keep insisting your idea of harassment is harassment.

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SE's the one that's going to decide that in the context of this game. Nobody's going to ban someone for supposedly underperforming on a dungeon, but depending on how people "express their annoyance" (I believe that's how you presented it) SE might very well take action against them.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Okay but I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with this? No one is arguing against this.

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That you're assuming the worst out of a word and three punctuation marks, and it's silly that you're trying to pass off your interpretation of the word as the hidden implied jab at healers.

Tank dies from lack of heals. Best person to ask about that is the healer.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I rarely see "tank???" and I don't think I have ever seen "dps???"

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The "Tank???????????" comes often enough, but you are not allowed to call out dps because...well you know...you don't pay their sub.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

The "Tank???????????" comes often enough, but you are not allowed to call out dps because...well you know...you don't pay their sub.

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Well it's likely due to how without a parser it's often still easy to see if a tank or healer messed up given it usually quickly leads to one or the other dying or nearly dying, but a dps messing up their rotation doesn't usually quickly result in death. One mistimed heal or tank cd can cause a wipe. One mistimed offensive ability rarely does.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

If you are playing a healer and anything goes wrong, every single person is going to most likely complain about your healing role. But you are still assuming that the person complaining is right. If it happens however, very often, it is likely you are doing something wrong as a healer; the causes, I don't know, it could be because they are new, have low expectations, play the game occasionally or even have some sort of physical/mental handicap, it could be a lot of things. The "they refuse to learn" line is the easiest one to assume because it gives you automatic permission to go wild on whoever you think is doing something wrong.

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Three observations:

1) I've been playing since 2.2 and I can count the number of times a bad player was called out in pf/df on the fingers of one hand;

2) Never have I witnessed the situation you described, namely the healer being blamed for anything that went wrong;

3) The funniest thing is that even assuming that "toxic players" are a majority in df and pugs and everyone starts shouting at healers whenever something goes wrong...do you know what players are actually able to tell who did his job and who didn't? Yeah, veteran raiders. People that unfairly blame an "innocent" or competent player are usually unskilled players since good players can easily understand what's going on and where the fault lies.

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

People wouldn't keep arguing semantics over and over with you if you stopped changing the story and crutch of your argument every time someone debunks it and you fumble to come up with another excuse that still treads water.

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It was only a very specific poster that did that, not people in general. There's nothing to debunk because there's no way you could ever justify calling someone bad in the context of an online game. From friendly advice to accurate assessments, you can disguise bad mouthing behind as many terms as you want. No real company is ever going to acknowledge your cause.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

It was only a very specific poster that did that, not people. There's nothing to debunk because there's no way you could ever justify calling someone bad in the context of an online game. From friendly advice to accurate assessments, you can disguise bad mouthing behind as many terms as you want. No real company is ever going to acknowledge your cause.

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bad adjective
\ˈbad
\
worse\ˈwərs
\; worst\ˈwərst
\
Definition of bad

(Entry 1 of 3)

1a : failing to reach an acceptable standard : poor a bad repair job

Example: This healer stands still using no abilities for 70% of the dungeon and only uses one spell (Cure 2) They are bad at healing.

Explain how that is an incorrect assessment or somehow harassment if I give advice on how to play better. Example: Please cast something between heals, you have some dps abilities such as stone and aero that can help the run go smoother.

In this instance an acceptable standard is attempting to be doing something throughout the dungeon run. I'm not asking for perfection, just a semblance of effort. I would then argue that this does justify me quantifying someone as being bad at something.

Also, stating someone is bad at something is not an insult. It is an assessment of their skill at a given task. It is a neutral statement.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Well it's likely due to how without a parser it's often still easy to see if a tank or healer messed up given it usually quickly leads to one or the other dying or nearly dying, but a dps messing up their rotation doesn't usually quickly result in death. One mistimed heal or tank cd can cause a wipe. One mistimed offensive ability rarely does.

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To be honest for most dps that you would actually want to call out, you don't need a parser because its most of the time very obvious what they are doing or not doing. I usualy don't call out people even if i could because its just wasted time since 90% of them don't give a sh.. anyway.

I've got called out once in a dungeon by a tank who died i just answered: "If i have to use benediction and tetra directly after that and you still die in an instant, you should maybe start using cd's or i'll start to use cure 1 only." He never complained again after that.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

It's not too much of a problem when it is anecdotical. It starts being a problem when it goes from anecdotical to frequent.




While there is a definition of harassment, what qualifies as harassment or not can often be vague or ambiguous, so arguing over this makes little sense. "Heals??????" when as a tank you've just died is directly pointing the healer as the only responsible of such situation, all while drawing away any potential responsibility you may have had. Whether that's qualified as harassment or not in your very own personal book isn't very important; what is important however is that such comment will certainly not be welcomed by the other side (for more than obvious reasons).

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Ah - I see our fundamental misunderstanding here. You assume I (or others) would care about hurting an oversensitive person's feelings with a harmless comment when they make a mistake. I can't speak for everyone else but I don't feel bad when this happens personally, if someone is bothered by 'heals?' or any other completely harmless question I can't be bothered to cater to them.

Put on your big girl robe and move into the world of adulthood.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

That aside: So we can agree that telling a healer who let the tank (or anyone else for that matter) die, when the tank (or anyone else) did everything in their power to prevent that from happening "You need to heal me" or "Please heal me" isnt harassment? Because when I die to the autoattack after a tankbuster for which I had sentinel, schiltron and reprisal up, I'll do that.

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If that's the entire story, nobody should be offended. If they are offended, it's up to you and the other person whether you want to approach the matter tactful in order to reduce the potential tension that may have generated or not, a good joke can sometimes prevent a situation from going downhill. If they are still offended no matter what despite your positive attitude, at least you know you've done what was in your hands to prevent a negative atmosphere in the group.

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Originally Posted by WaterShield

bad adjective
\ˈbad
\
worse\ˈwərs
\; worst\ˈwərst
\
Definition of bad

(Entry 1 of 3)

1a : failing to reach an acceptable standard : poor a bad repair job

Example: This healer stands still using no abilities for 70% of the dungeon and only uses one spell (Cure 2) They are bad at healing.

Explain how that is an incorrect assessment or somehow harassment if I give advice on how to play better. Example: Please cast something between heals, you have some dps abilities such as stone and aero that can help the run go smoother.

In this instance an acceptable standard is attempting to be doing something throughout the dungeon run. I'm not asking for perfection, just a semblance of effort. I would then argue that this does justify me quantifying someone as being bad at something.

Also, stating someone is bad at something is not an insult. It is an assessment of their skill at a given task. It is a neutral statement.

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Go ahead, call someone bad in a dungeon right after you wipe in a boss, and when you notice they don't take it very well, tell them you are helping them because you are giving them neutral assessment and thus helping them improve. I'm confident it'll work out.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

Go ahead, call someone bad in a dungeon right after you wipe in a boss, and when you notice they don't take it very well, tell them you are helping them because you are giving them neutral assessment and thus helping them improve. I'm confident it'll work out.

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That doesn't answer their prompt for you.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

I'm talking more specifically in the context of a random dungeon with random people. In the context of a PF with certain requirements, you are on your complete right to kick someone if you think they are not pulling their weight. I still think you can do it politely though.

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And my previous message still applies even in df roulettes. If you’re incapable of playing/healing properly, you should get replaced by someone who can. It’s usually easy to see how someone died, that being to mechanics, ohko/falling off, or just lack of healing

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Originally Posted by Gallus

Go ahead, call someone bad in a dungeon right after you wipe in a boss, and when you notice they don't take it very well, tell them you are helping them because you are giving them neutral assessment and thus helping them improve. I'm confident it'll work out.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

Ah - I see our fundamental misunderstanding here. You assume I (or others) would care about hurting an oversensitive person's feelings with a harmless comment when they make a mistake.

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Sorry, but I don't care that you're on a crusade for cookie points.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

Go ahead, call someone bad in a dungeon right after you wipe in a boss, and when you notice they don't take it very well, tell them you are helping them because you are giving them neutral assessment and thus helping them improve. I'm confident it'll work out.

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Telling someone he/she is bad = harassment
Giving friendly advice if they do something wrong = harassment
Saying nothing = you are an a..hole because you refuse to help

See a patern there?

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

Ah - I see our fundamental misunderstanding here. You assume I (or others) would care about hurting an oversensitive person's feelings with a harmless comment when they make a mistake. I can't speak for everyone else but I don't feel bad when this happens personally, if someone is bothered by 'heals?' or any other completely harmless question I can't be bothered to cater to them.

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If you approach someone with a harmless comment at the right time, there shouldn't be a problem about it. If there is, you can either make a big deal out of it or stay calm and behave like a mature person. Under no circumstances you call someone bad, and if some people go as far as to claim that this situation happens often, I've already said I have very good reasons (backed up by a lot of experience) to think that the problem isn't the other's side oversensitivity.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

Go ahead, call someone bad in a dungeon right after you wipe in a boss, and when you notice they don't take it very well, tell them you are helping them because you are giving them neutral assessment and thus helping them improve. I'm confident it'll work out.

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Why should i care if the (bad) player doesn't take it well.
If the (bad) player doesn't want to be called out he should play on an acceptable standard for his level and content.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

I've got called out once in a dungeon by a tank who died i just answered: "If i have to use benediction and tetra directly after that and you still die in an instant, you should maybe start using cd's or i'll start to use cure 1 only." He never complained again after that.

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This is beautiful :D

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Originally Posted by Penthea

This is beautiful :D

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This is just one of these moments where i can't stop myself from writing something when people piss me off. Most of the time only my friends hear me on discord when stuff like that happens.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

If you approach someone with a harmless comment at the right time, there shouldn't be a problem about it. If there is, you can either make a big deal out of it or stay calm and behave like a mature person. Under no circumstances you call someone bad, and if some people go as far as to claim that this situation happens often, I've already said I have very good reasons (backed up by a lot of experience) to think that the problem isn't the other's side oversensitivity.

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Except people already reiterated that yes, it should be done in a polite calm way even before your input on this topic. You're not reaching any new conclusion.
The difference is: calling someone bad in the process is neither harassment nor an insult nor an offence.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

Go ahead, call someone bad in a dungeon right after you wipe in a boss, and when you notice they don't take it very well, tell them you are helping them because you are giving them neutral assessment and thus helping them improve. I'm confident it'll work out.

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Honestly, it sounds like to me that you would rather people use the words “poor” or “poorly” instead of “bad”, but the connotation in terms of performance assessment is still the same. And, no, it’s not an insult nor harassment to tell someone that their performance is “poor” (bad).

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Originally Posted by Gallus

It was only a very specific poster that did that, not people in general. There's nothing to debunk because there's no way you could ever justify calling someone bad in the context of an online game. From friendly advice to accurate assessments, you can disguise bad mouthing behind as many terms as you want. No real company is ever going to acknowledge your cause.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

Go ahead, call someone bad in a dungeon right after you wipe in a boss, and when you notice they don't take it very well, tell them you are helping them because you are giving them neutral assessment and thus helping them improve. I'm confident it'll work out.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

That doesn't answer their prompt for you.

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Example: This healer stands still using no abilities for 70% of the dungeon and only uses one spell (Cure 2) They are bad at healing.

Explain how that is an incorrect assessment or somehow harassment if I give advice on how to play better. Example: Please cast something between heals, you have some dps abilities such as stone and aero that can help the run go smoother.

Please answer the bold prompt. Please explain the answer. Your previous response does not allow me to understand your point of view.

I am simply asking how the definition of "Bad" is incorrect according to you, why you believe it to be so, and what agrees with you in defining that word differently.

I am also interested in how you perceive the example of "harassment" used above. Was I harassing that person by making the statement "Please cast something between heals, you have some dps abilities such as stone and aero that can help the run go smoother."? Or should that be taken (as it was intended) as neutral advice given because I clearly noticed someone was performing in a way that was not at an acceptable standard? You may assume in this instance that I make the statement once and then leave them to their own devices. In my mind this causes the above incident to not qualify as harassment, as I am not personally attacking the player or annoying them with with unwanted contact later on.

Is it wrong for me to offer advice such as this, as the person receiving it may be able to infer that they are playing in a way that is objectively "bad"?