Soo... apparently Diadem has i280 weapons with higher WD than alexandrian/anima lux

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

As far as I see it you have no opinion on whatever ilvl weapon drops and also no reasonable argument for the weapon being even higher than every other weapon (e.g. PotD was a success even without dropping the highest current weapon, it was just competing with the current EX trial).

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I've said multiple times than you need a much stronger incentive to make 72 people work together.

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

On the other hand 280 isn't pleasing more people than a 275 weapon.

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An i280 weapon is pleasing every player than couldn't earn an i275 through Anima or Savage, and every raider displeased with having nothing to do for the next months. The people that are not pleased are those that would already complain that Savage is not the end-all be-all of weapons anymore. And some Anima holders, but frankly, the whole Anima quest was a mess from the get-go.

Funny thing, if you don't do Diadem and complain about not having the best weapon, it's exactly the same as people complaining to not have an i275 and told that they should put the effort to clear Savage. So, do some effort, go clear Diadem, and you'll get the best weapon eventually.

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

Why do you care about what others think in a thread like this, if you don't care about the topic substantially yourself?

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I care because I'm tired of hearing the same complain every odd patch, every new expansion or every piece of content that actually gives meaningful reward for progression.
Especially since Diadem is the only grand scale content, a type of content that people ask for years, without even realizing that, again, you can't have such a large number of people working together without a really strong reward.

And, naively, I hope that maybe raiders will eventually realize that what effort they put in Savage still makes them the top players. Consider this...A12S drops weapon and armor. If it only dropped body armor, would you be less motivated to clear it ? Wouldn't you still have better gear than those who don't have access to that body piece ? Why does the weapon alone suddenly negates every other benefit from Savage ?

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Actually its mostly that a very load minority are doing knee-jerk complaining.

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Whatever, that's what those forums are for? I guess for those and also for this even smaller (but still loud) minority: those people who couldn't care less about whatever way the game goes and just like to post their unrelated opionion on users who actually care about the topic.

By now, I'm only curious on the logic behind this, maybe they will talk about it on PAX. So far I haven't seen the point of the jump and no one provided a reasonable one either, yet (just PotD as example, but which wasn't higher than other current content).

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

And, naively, I hope that maybe raiders will eventually realize that what effort they put in Savage still makes them the top players. Consider this...A12S drops weapon and armor. If it only dropped body armor, would you be less motivated to clear it ? Wouldn't you still have better gear than those who don't have access to that body piece ? Why does the weapon alone suddenly negates every other benefit from Savage ?

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It's not about motivation anymore, it's just about the logic. Ok, you need an incentive to promote Diadem, i get that.
The question is, was it needed to turn the incentive on other still current contents down, on the same side. Or would it have been enough to provide comparable rewards?

That's all what I'm saying. Imo it wasn't needed to have an imbalance in rewards and having 3 different same level weapons would have been ok. Three different target groups for the same goal, doesn't that sound fair?
Just look at what people where expecting in the according threads.. 260, 255, 270, 275.. but no one said seriously 280, nobody expected that big of an incentive, but still most were curious about new Diadem.
I myself guessed it would be just another sets of 270 gear with rng turned in a way that you achieve 1 piece every xx hours (maybe even buyable with spoils). So I expected even higher gear (left side), but a lower weapon. Where does this place me now?

As said, I don't see the logic. Why not 280 left side gear, too? Any logic to that?

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

(just PotD as example, but which wasn't higher than other current content).

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Seriously, if you ask a question, at least read the answers...

Let me phrase it another way: "Considering you already have a finished Anima, and have cleared A12s, would you really be ready to team-up with up to 71 pick-up players for only a slight chance of obtaining a weapon equivalent to what you already have ?"

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

no reasonable argument for the weapon being even higher than every other weapon

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The emergency mission requires a lot of people to beat it in time without wipes. If there are people with Animas in the instance they have no reason to go help with the emergency mission, which would leave the rest of people too undermanned to beat it. In order to encourage the entire Diadem population to stop what they are doing and go fight the toughest fight there it must reward something useful for everyone. SE probably didn't want a relic vs no relic division just like they didn't want battle vs gathering division, because when people split up they don't get anything done.

I'm not saying it couldn't have been 275. It could have. But then a lot of people would miss out on opportunities to get those weapons.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Seriously, if you ask a question, at least read the answers...

Let me phrase it another way: "Considering you already have a finished Anima, andhave cleared A12s, would you really be ready to team-up with up to 71 pick-up players for only a slight chance of obtaining a weapon equivalent to what you already have ?"

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Maybe I would team up with them because it's a challenge and fun to do harder content on large scale? Like you expect that for savage, too, don't you?
Also the idea to drop one weapon per 72 players wasn't mine either, loot distribution mustn't be done like this (with no 280 weapon).
If they had given us a full set of new gear for every class on 270 with set stats (just a third 270 set with other stat distribution) I'd be all in, too. Weekly capped or uncapped, idc, but with a moderate chance to obtain at least 1-2 piece a week with reasonable play time (well, RNG is RNG, but i think you get what i mean.. PotD was rng ammount of time, too).
More choices is good and I have 13 (well, 11 by now, but soon) jobs to gear and I'm not even finished with scripture for all of them.
This way Diadem would've been a real alternative to other contents.. no raid today, no sturdy window or just tired of beating A1? "Let's q for some diadem, I still have x items I'm interested in to get." If it's really big fun, even better.

Now it's more like: Do your normal thing for left/right side (weekly capped stuff), go to Diadem for a chance of random best weapon.

I think uncapped alex savage + 900 script cap + new 270 set from diadem would have been perfect. Maybe step by step and one by one every 2 weeks, idk.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C6enXj-XEAEnrbd.jpg:large
#SorryNotSorry

I'm doing my third anima for MCH and still trying to clear the last 30% from A12S, and I don't care at all about the /doze fest that is Diadem. If someone gets a decent ilvl 280 weapon, good for them.

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

Maybe I would team up with them because it's a challenge and fun to do harder content on large scale?

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No, you wouldn't...and especially not multiple times after the first few runs without any reward.

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

Like you expect that for savage, too, don't you?

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Savage is cleared by static, or through excessively restricted party finders where people bail at the first mistake, and it's only 8 people.

The good thing is that Diadem does not negate Savage or Scripture farm, because you still need everything besides the weapon. So, yeah, you have three things to do now, instead of two. Enjoy.

What could be better for me, and I've created a topic for that, is for Savage to not drop a weapon in the first place, and also not drop accessories. Raid should drop armor, trials should drop accessories, and additionnal content should drop weapons. And since the content with the less skill required would drop the most important item, it could give enough confidence for players who fear doing raids. And raiders would still be the better equipped players.

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Originally Posted by Lunafreya

I'm sorry to say but this reason is off the charts stupid. A final busywork? What on Earth? We finished the best weapon 2 weeks ago and those were best, even better than raid weapons. Where was the final "Busywork" as you claim during coils then? It was the relic and we didn't need another weapon to invalidate the long grind of the relic. Please use proper reasoning.

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Simply put, it wasn't there after coils and as I understand and remember correctly it led to a large drop off of players that were, ya know...bored? Sounds like proper reasoning to me, give players something to do and work for even after everything is said and done. Then to just let them sit and risk another drop off.

The anima should be 280 too... its after all something one had been working on the whole expansion. Meh...

What were they thinking making rng gear ilvl280.
If it would've been 275 as well, people wouldn't be nearly as upset. It'd be equivalent to winning the lottery.
It WOULD'NT BE BETTER than something you've worked hard for tho, that's why people, me included are salty over this.

Terrible attempt to make Diadem relevant. I went in once and was bored to death. Obnoxious FATE's with monsters that are damage sponges. No mechanics, tank and spank and collect rewards. Fun. With RNG. What is this? Some korean MMO?
I give this 2 weeks and it's dead.

I'm also aware that the anima will become obsolete once you meet the 3rd-4th NPC in Stormblood.
But that's the expansion, people expect that to happen.
But randomly throwing in gear that's potentially better, only 2 weeks after you finally complete your anima? FULLY complete it?

*create an artificial lifeform and make it self aware to obtain ilvl275.*
*or play lottery and get ilvl280.*

Should've just made a raid roulette instead.

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

Maybe I would team up with them because it's a challenge and fun to do harder content on large scale? Like you expect that for savage, too, don't you?

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I remember that talk from Savage Coil, it's all a ruse. "For the challenge" didn't work only 8 players, imagine dozens.

I'd be totally fine with i280 if last relic step hadn't been only a week ago....

I mean I just finished it on release day 9 days ago and its already been over shadowed.

So I got to use it for a week before something better came out.....I just don't understand the mentality.

If they had released i280 weapons say at the end of this month I would be fine with it...least I got to use my relic for a month till something better came out, but 9 days?? :/

I thought players urged different ways to obtain gear. Nope! All players must suffer and walk through hell for gear. LOL! The salt is awesome.

http://static.celebuzz.com/uploads/2...emma-stone.gif

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Originally Posted by Miste

I'd be totally fine with i280 if last relic step hadn't been only a week ago....

I mean I just finished it on release day 9 days ago and its already been over shadowed.

So I got to use it for a week before something better came out.....I just don't understand the mentality.

If they had released i280 weapons say at the end of this month I would be fine with it...least I got to use my relic for a month till something better came out, but 9 days?? :/

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The 280 weapons were suppose to be released at the same time as relic 275. Remember they delayed diadem because of a bug.

Funny thing to me is that they delayed Diadem because of a bug right? So in saying that if Diadem had been bugless, they would have released it at the same time as they added the final anima step.

"Grats on completing an anima weapon after such a long grind over the past few months. At the same time as your victory lap, here's this random weapon that trumps it in damage that drops randomly from braindead easy content. So you can now use your shiny new anima weapon to farm for a better one."

I can see this is great for alt classes where players don't want to bother farming through the anima line to get. But it is kinda kick in the gut for players who have done the anima line many times over.

I feel sorry for all these people wasted there time on those so "strong" relic weapon(s) :U
Isnt that like a falcon punch x1000 to there faces?

Im glad I never completed any relic questline (Stopped at Anime lv100 + Other Relic lv260 <- way to much grind/effort/time waste)

They get worthless at new expansions anyways o-o ..then you totaly feel like unrewarded.

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

I feel sorry for all these people wasted there time on those so "strong" relic weapon(s) :U
Isnt that like a falcon punch x1000 to there faces?

Im glad I never completed any relic questline (Stopped at Anime lv100 + Other Relic lv260 <- way to much grind/effort/time waste)

They get worthless at new expansions anyways o-o ..then you totaly feel like unrewarded.

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I don't feel like I was punched in the face, after completing 4 of them in 2.0, I never made another relic to be anything other than what it ultimately becomes. A glamour piece.

Since I view it as a glamour piece first and foremost, I never feel cheated. Unless it's ugly like the BRD bow, then a little bit.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

The 280 weapons were suppose to be released at the same time as relic 275. Remember they delayed diadem because of a bug.

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Starting to think there was no bug and they just delayed it to drip feed content. They know if they had of been released it at the same time not everyone would of continued with it.

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

Starting to think there was no bug and they just delayed it to drip feed content. They know if they had of been released it at the same time not everyone would of continued with it.

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oh.

If they had dropped this weapon at the same time as the 275 anima step, the rage would have been OH SO REAL.

ugh. This game, man. I just need stormblood here. these next few months are going to be brutal.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Seriously, if you ask a question, at least read the answers...

Let me phrase it another way: "Considering you already have a finished Anima, and have cleared A12s, would you really be ready to team-up with up to 71 pick-up players for only a slight chance of obtaining a weapon equivalent to what you already have ?"

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This assumes raiders will still bother farming a weapon with an astronomically low drop rate. Plenty have flatout unsubbed because these weapons ruined speed runs. Since FFlogs is their source of fun, they no longer have a reason to play.

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

Starting to think there was no bug and they just delayed it to drip feed content. They know if they had of been released it at the same time not everyone would of continued with it.

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You don't say......
This is what they do. Yoshi is not so honest lately. Except if translators are not translating very well what he says.
That "first 24 man trial" came out as a trash mob in Dun Scaith.
Diadem "reworked" came out as Diadem re-skinned a bit with no additional rewards. They didn't even bother put a recolored Pegasus mount at least.
He also promised he will "work" the issue where players were abandoning the party to go gather/fish and he didn't. You can still change to DoL abandon everyone and gather fish/flowers/rocks.
He only put a silly weapon with an even sillier way to obtain it only to mess up with people who grind their backsides out to get their relic and this only few days after the last step appeared in game.
This content is once again DOA.

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Originally Posted by Riardon

You don't say......
This is what they do. Yoshi is not so honest lately. Except if translators are not translating very well what he says.

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There's a pegasus minion for 50 spoils which I don't think was there before but that's about it other than the new gear and weapons. Stuff like this doesn't really bother me anymore. I'm already desensitized to it since they do this a lot. Still 3 months left until the expansion and they are trying to stretch what little they have so people don't leave.

Good way to get some RDM and SAM leveling gear I guess.

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

Starting to think there was no bug and they just delayed it to drip feed content. They know if they had of been released it at the same time not everyone would of continued with it.

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Wasn't the last step only a few minutes? Would it really have mattered?

When you want to make relic worthless shortly after releasing the final step...

I have the i275 weapon from savage Alex, but I recently (finally) put time into my relic again then they released this. lol Bye motivation.... nice knowing you.

I'm not too upset, but yeah, this is kind of a slap in the face who worked our butts off.

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Originally Posted by Elim

When you want to make relic worthless shortly after releasing the final step...

I have the i275 weapon from savage Alex, but I recently (finally) put time into my relic again then they released this. lol Bye motivation.... nice knowing you.

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I don't really understand why your motivation would be gone now. Just because you feel like this is easier now for other people to get and be "better" than you? I think the chance of getting the weapon you want in there is much "harder" (as in you just really need a bunchload of luck) than just doing your relic. Nobody is gonna look at one of those weapons and be like "WOAH this guy... he went through all this to get this weapon, he must be really good"

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Originally Posted by yexie

I don't really understand why your motivation would be gone now. Just because you feel like this is easier now for other people to get and be "better" than you? I think the chance of getting the weapon you want in there is much "harder" (as in you just really need a bunchload of luck) than just doing your relic. Nobody is gonna look at one of those weapons and be like "WOAH this guy... he went through all this to get this weapon, he must be really good"

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cause what's the point? just do diadem instead.

It literally is not a slap in the face. Those of us who did our relics - me included! - or savage, still have our weapons. It's not like they are useless now that a higher weapon is out, because you're not even guaranteed to get the 280 weapon, let alone an actual useful one.

Is it really this easy to make all these people fly off the handles and shout that their time and commitment is now worthless? You still did the damn quest, you still beat savage, which is more than what most "casuals" can say. Jesus, is your accomplishment really diminished that much because some people can maybe, MAYBE, get a slightly better weapon than you? I'm just so confused. It literally doesn't affect you.

Giving out a piece of equipment, that is purely RNG in obtaining, that is objectively better than anything players can obtain through hard work and dedication, is kind of punishing to the people who have spent hours on Alexander Savage or Anima Lux weapons.
I am a Monk main, and on my second foray into the new Diadem, I saw someone get a set of better fists than I can ever obtain any other way (until Stormblood). Kind of a slap in the face honestly, especially since they went to someone who, judging by gear, would not be using them until Stormblood leveling.
This would not be nearly as much of a problem if the Diadem weapons were of an item level equal to the aforementioned items. Sure, some people would still be miffed (that's just unavoidable), but it would not be NEARLY as big of a deal.
I find it unlikely that they will change it now, but I REALLY hope this is not repeated in Stormblood.

2-3hrs for i270- i275. But IF you're a tank and are at the i260 - i270 you'll need at least 10bonus round ( 20hrs) to get your upgrade. I would know because I've done it on all 3 tanks, each time a bonus window comes up I take about an hour to organise a party because the standard for JP servers is 1 Tank 1 healer, 6 DPS. Queue takes about 5-10minutes to pop on peak hours.

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Originally Posted by TaurielKyudo

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Given statweights, a 280 weapon is by default better than a 275. The substats are icing on the cake. And maybe for some people it does, maybe they felt that the reward for their efforts was to have one of (if not the) best weapons in the game. Maybe they're here thinking, "Why is the diadem weapon 280? Why not 275, so it would at least be an equivalent option instead of a blatantly better one?"

I do think its a bad choice to make the weapons 280 instead of 270. For 2 years, I have not capped tomes or actually grinded gear because of how quickly gear gets invalidated in this game and how the req ilvl to enter new content is fairly low to what is available..the real culprit in my opinion. I sub every now and again to run the content I want to run but do not grind. I actually play WoW just to get my gear fix and to grind heavily even though FFXIV was my first mmo. I wish i could play FFXIV and get the same feeling but I don't. I love this game and wish i could spend every moment of free time playing it if it had better itemization. However, the devs have clearly stated that their target audience is the gamer who subs & unsubs to play other games and who wishes to get catched up quickly. Which is a very unique strategy for a mmorpg to take considering if you unsub from WoW, Blizzard asks in a survey why you are unsubbing and to which mmo you possibly are moving to because its goal is to keep players playing the game. I believe that the 280 was added with its low drop chance to extend the life of the diadem but honestly knowing this community, people will be done with it once they get the two new minions or finish the mount grind. Speaking of how the community loves minions/mounts/glamour, never understood why something like diadem has so few of these rewards when the community loves this kind of stuff.

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Originally Posted by yexie

I don't really understand why your motivation would be gone now.

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Yeah, you really don't understand. I'm not angry and it's not a big deal to me, just disappointed to see something this lame from a dev team I respect. This reminds me of something SWTOR's dev team would do.

I don't care what other people get. I lost my motivation to put time into relic since it's already worthless to me again. I can already get a better weapon.

I'll say what I said in the other thread. I dont play the game for ilvl upgrades or special raider gear status. I play for fun. Them adding a weapon better than the multiple anima weapons I have doesn't bother me at all. People acting like this is a slap in the face are severely overreacting over nothing. I raid for fun, if the raid isn't fun, I dont do it. Alex has been not fun 80% of the time. Coil was fun 95% of the time.

Hopefully Omega will be fun. If its not, I won't do it. Other than that, who cares.

If THIS is the last straw for you, then there wasn't much holding you here to begin with.

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Originally Posted by RaijinSupreme

cause what's the point? just do diadem instead.

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Like I said, by the time you get the weapon you want from diadem you'll be done with the relic.

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Originally Posted by TaurielKyudo

It literally is not a slap in the face. Those of us who did our relics - me included! - or savage, still have our weapons. It's not like they are useless now that a higher weapon is out, because you're not even guaranteed to get the 280 weapon, let alone an actual useful one.

Is it really this easy to make all these people fly off the handles and shout that their time and commitment is now worthless? You still did the damn quest, you still beat savage, which is more than what most "casuals" can say. Jesus, is your accomplishment really diminished that much because some people can maybe, MAYBE, get a slightly better weapon than you? I'm just so confused. It literally doesn't affect you.

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Exactly...

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Originally Posted by yexie

Like I said, by the time you get the weapon you want from diadem you'll be done with the relic.

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exactly. so if I would be done with the 275 wep by the time i get the 280 wep, why do the 275 wep?

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

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IF you get a weapon, yes, technically, it's better (BRD damage is only +1, so in all honesty, compared to the other jobs, that's not that big an increase). The thing is, they still got a powerful weapon out of the anima quest line or doing savage. That hasn't changed. I agree that 275 would have been more logical, but they did what they did to get people playing the content. But I'm not going to waste my energy and get all angry about someone else getting a better weapon. I enjoyed doing the anima, I had a great time doing that with my friends, and someone else getting a 280 isn't taking that away from me.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

So, do some effort, go clear Diadem, and you'll get the best weapon eventually.

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I'd just like to point out that getting the weapon is behind at least 4 layers of RNG.
First, getting an emergency mission to show up. (I only had one all day).
Secondly, getting a weapon drop from it at all.
Thirdly, getting the weapon drop for the correct class.
Fourthly, getting reasonable stats on it.

That's too much RNG to say you'll get it eventually.
And with all this, the one time the mission showed up for me, someone else got my main class' weapon, and it was better than anything I can get otherwise. I don't know whether to laugh or cry (I decided to just sit there in stunned silence).

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Originally Posted by Aosha

I'd just like to point out that getting the weapon is behind at least 4 layers of RNG.
First, getting an emergency mission to show up. (I only had one all day).
Secondly, getting a weapon drop from it at all.
Thirdly, getting the weapon drop for the correct class.
Fourthly, getting reasonable stats on it.

That's too much RNG to say you'll get it eventually.
And with all this, the one time the mission showed up for me, someone else got my main class' weapon, and it was better than anything I can get otherwise. I don't know whether to laugh or cry (I decided to just sit there in stunned silence).

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I think everyone and their mum is missing out on this important fact in favor of that cane picture and hyperbole. :/