I am not with him or try to defense him since he is the one violate the forum rules and cry about his post get delete. But 1 thing I have to say is the lag still remain in-game for EU/NA, I dont know where you live or how good is your route with upload and download, but from my side I have around 300 ping, normally, for a mmo I will consider this as lag since common ping for a mmorpg at eu is 50-100 (correct words is slow transfer data). And yes I know that my net suck, I got only 20/1, so if you dont have lag, you much got 20/5 or something but standard home user I dont think any will got that muchQuote:
Originally Posted by Zeroeffect
Who is jumping ship once they start charging in November?
Printable View
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10-29-2011, 08:28 PMShneibel
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10-29-2011, 08:39 PMKafeenI find it quite interesting how Final Fantasy can have such an emotional grip on someone that it provokes this kind of behavior. So many people have bought the game, don't enjoy it but spend the next year continuing to play it, demanding that it it changed to meet their expectations, to become the game they want it to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by irongripz
This doesn't seem to happen else where. If you buy a drink but it doesn't taste as good as you expected, how many people would continue to drink it for the next year, contacting the manufacturers demanding that the flavour be improved to something more suiting their taste!? I'm sure most rational people would simply put it down to a bad choice of purchase then not buy it any more. -
10-29-2011, 08:43 PMBetelgeuzahIf you demand reasoning, sooner or later they'll become incredibly hostile and defensive.Quote:
I find it quite interesting how Final Fantasy can have such an emotional grip on someone that it provokes this kind of behavior. So many people have bought the game, don't enjoy it but spend the next year continuing to play it, demanding that it it changed to meet their expectations, to become the game they want it to be.
Makes one think that they aren't being completely honest to themselves. -
10-29-2011, 08:45 PMAmyRaeI suppose you'd like rant on how you don't like brussels sprouts, also. Well, go right ahead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
But if we're going to get to the point, it's that you can't run a fan site without the backing of the community. Leadership alone isn't enough. -
10-29-2011, 08:49 PMBetelgeuzahThe fan sites are competing for the support of the community as we speak. It's not that the community doesn't exist- it's that there are many more sites competing against each other than there were in XI. Sooner or later, especially once development stabilizes and you can actually build a foundation that doesn't get changed few months later, one fan site is going to pull ahead of others- and that's the fan site the community will back up.Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyRae
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10-29-2011, 08:57 PMKafeenWho's trolling? Those who enjoy the game and come to the forums to talk about the game they enjoy playing or those who come despite not liking the game with the sole intention of starting arguments with the people here?Quote:
Originally Posted by irongripz
Of course those of us supporting the subs still care if people play the game. We just don't care if those people who don't like it don't play the game. Frankly, this would be a happier place without them. -
10-29-2011, 10:06 PMweeblewell if Brussels sprouts are in ...then lets hope there's room on the shelf for strawberries and corn.Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyRae
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10-29-2011, 10:47 PMZanfireExcept this is SE and they not only fired people, but flat out apologized for how bad it was and said they would fix it. Other MMOs dont do this because they can just go F2P and let it die out, SE doesnt want all that effort to go to waste by letting have almost noone play or shut it down, so they made it their mission to fix the game so people would actually play it. To most people that "fixed" state will be when 2.0 hits, it relieves so many problems with the game, especially the server and coding issues and the other huge complaints like the lackluster UI and dll copy paste world. It also lets them do so much more and has the game work on many more PCs, which means more customers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kafeen
You seem to be on the same mind-set as a few posters on these forums who defend SE's choices blindly and only see black and white. You say if you dont love it, GTFO. In reality there are a ton of people who like the game a little bit and see its potential, but don't think its worth paying for in its current state (pretty much pre-2.0 and with how little content there really is right now)
Of course there is no changing your few minds, so you will argue that same "love it or leave it" statement until the end of time. -
10-29-2011, 10:51 PMPreypacerHeheh, very well played.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
+1 -
10-29-2011, 11:10 PMirongripzso how many time you been banned for telling these trolls what they NEED to hear but cant because the moderators on this site wont let you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanfire
game is still half done people that pay for half of what they should get are just... Inflammatory comments'
guess i am a glass is half empty kind of person they are all glass half full. but when it comes down to it least i see we only have half -
10-29-2011, 11:12 PMVawnActually, a bunch of us DIDN'T love the game at release. You know what we did? We quit playing. We didn't keep playing it and posting every single day over the year about how we hate it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanfire
We came back after a few updates and gave it another shot. When the game was at a point where we enjoyed it, then we kept playing. If the game becomes no longer enjoyable to us again, we'll leave and find something else to fill our free time. We wouldn't keep playing a game we dislike and constantly bitch about how we dislike it.
This is how rational people behave. -
10-29-2011, 11:17 PMPreypacerAnd people have a right to disagree with the assertions you make along with your complaints. You don't have to like it.Quote:
Originally Posted by irongripz
See, that's the problem with you, gripz. Every time people speak out to refute or disagree with something you say, you immediately start painting yourself as some kind of "victim of censorship" in a number of your posts. "Oh, poor me. I'm just trying to vent my frustrations with the game and people won't let me!! Poor unfairly censored me!!"
People disagreeing or debating with you isn't "censorship". If you're going to play the "victim of censorship", at least make sure you're actually being censored. Seems a bit disingenuous otherwise.
Anyway... your posts aren't anywhere near as "innocent" as you keep trying to spin them. You're doing your fair share of throwing around assertions that you could not support with verifiable numbers any more than those you're challenging to do the same.
For just one example, you posted things like the following only a few pages back:
"argue this all you want but the majority is outside this Little box here in these forums. and if they truly thought this game was worth paying a sub for they would post, but sense most people don't care, waiting for 2.0, or just wont ever buy a SE product again, post on forums where they can say what they please. "
So where are your "numerical stats" to back up your claim that it's the majority? Have you approached every single person who's opined on the game or casted their vote on a poll outside this site to verify that they were actually "a majority" or that all of them even owned the game at all? I'm gonna guess that you didn't.
Thus, you can't back up your claim of "a majority" with actual stats either.
So you are doing exactly the same thing you are accusing others to do. There's a word for people who do things like that, you know.
As much as people like to dismiss the results of OPs like this one becuase "oh it's the official site so of course people are going to be mostly supportive".. That's a hollow argument in this case. Because in order to access these forums at all you have to have bought the game and have an active character.
So right there it can be verified that every single account posting here actually *does* own the game and actually *does* have at least one character. That's something that can not be claimed with any certainty for those posting on ZAM, etc.
And as has been explained before.. It seems much more valid to take the opinions - positive, negative or otherwise - from people who actually are affected by the game's future because they verifiably have invested money and/or time into it, than to take the opinions of people on non-official sites where anyone can cast a vote or voice an opinion, without even having invested a single dime, nor even 5 minutes into looking into the game.
And to be sure, people on forums love to opine on things they have no first-hand knowledge or experience with. That kind of thing just goes with the territory. It would be naive to assume that every person casting a vote on a site like ZAM or elsewhere has a game account simply because they voted.
My opinion on that would be the same regardless. Even if the numbers were reversed and 2 out of 3 here stated that they were not willing to pay a sub at this time, I'd stand by it just as much, for the same reasons.
I'll go one step further to perhaps knock your self-pity trip down a peg... I think your opinion of the state of the game and subs being reinstated as being every bit as valid here as those who are fine with it. I don't know about others and I won't speak for them, but you saying "I don't think it's ready for subs" is every bit as valid as someone else on these forums saying "I think it is ready for subs".
Why? Because both of you have invested money and/or time into buying and at least trying the game. You are invested in it, and stand to be affected by SE's decision. So, to me, your opinions count equally at the individual level.
However... It just so happens that there are substantially more here who are willing to stick around than there are those who aren't.
That there are more who are fine with subs doesn't devalue your individual opinion.. It just means your individual opinion is not that of the majority.
You seem to be taking people disagreeing with you wayyyyyyy too personally. -
10-29-2011, 11:21 PMirongripzi will you don't have to like my bitching...better than being SE little.... Inflammatory commentsQuote:
Originally Posted by Vawn
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10-29-2011, 11:36 PMirongripzand yet this again. same crap same people. your the minority the majority is on un moderated sites telling you why this game is not ready.. i could link sites but you know.Quote:
That there are more who are fine with subs doesn't devalue your individual opinion.. It just means your individual opinion is not that of the majority.
they just get deleted because they are all bad and its indisputable harm to SE. you are the minority. I am only the minority to the same 15 trolls on this forum group
funny how you dismiss those who check out the patches and quit as their opinion don't matter. only those who plays and enjoys matter. that basically all of your arguments and its reason other sites are the majority.
so may people want to use majority.... the majority disagree that this game is even worth buying so what is the point in using that statement? -
10-29-2011, 11:40 PMJennestiaWho was fired again? Aside people who've left the company over the years, I've yet to see them actually fire someone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanfire
You keep saying it "harms SE" "harms SE" "harms SE"..what harm is being done? The only opinions that get deleted are trolling and inflammatory comments, aka attacking other players for being positive.Quote:
Originally Posted by irongripz
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10-29-2011, 11:50 PMKafeenNoone was fired, they were just moved around to either a different job position or a different project.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanfire
So we're supposed to listen to the same complaints for the next year? Thank god most of these will be leaving then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanfire
I certainly don't see only black and white, but with some of the language people use on here is certainly seems that they do. There's a big difference between loving a game and thinking its a pile of $#!£ like some people are claiming (despite still being here a year after launch). I haven't seen many post saying "I like this, I like that but this still needs more work so I'll come back when 2.0 is released". But in reality doesn't that make more sense to do? If you aren't happy with the game now and willing to pay, then don't. Want to see if the game is in a state you're willing to pay for when 2.0 is released, come back then. It doesn't mean the rest of us want to see the same repeated topics for the next 12 months whining about the same old thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanfire
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10-30-2011, 12:06 AMirongripzi don't have a numerical stat but i have apology letters. i have bad reviews after bad reviews to back my opinions. only good reviews you will find on this game are probably on this forum or straight from a fanboysite.Quote:
So where are your "numerical stats" to back up your claim that it's the majority? Have you approached every single person who's opined on the game or casted their vote on a poll outside this site to verify that they were actually "a majority" or that all of them even owned the game at all? I'm gonna guess that you didn't.
i never put the word FACT behind my statments. only those who disagree argur that there is any facts..
lets go over the fact tho..
wow has 9500 quests ffxiv has 300 ok this is not fair wow is older lets compare recently launched games.
rift has over 2500. ffxiv has 300
hmmm seems as if my opinion that its unfinished has facts to back it up.... -
10-30-2011, 12:07 AMTheVedissupposedely its a comspiracy and the front page is supposed to be filled with quitting threadsQuote:
Originally Posted by Jennestia
and if it isnt, then SE is censoring everyone and hiding the truth
even though we can see every deleted thread cuz it has a nice big red - next to it when they close and lock and delete it so we can see what they stopped -
10-30-2011, 12:08 AMClydey
The game is on the right path. I can only see it getting better, so sacrificing a few pounds per month is well worth it.
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10-30-2011, 12:11 AMPreypacerOkay... So you ignore the rest of my post, and respond with more of your typical spin-doctoring BS.Quote:
Originally Posted by irongripz
As I've already stated, on those unmoderated sites you can not verify that every person speaking out or "voting" even owns the game in the first place.
So are you prepared to back up your claim by showing that the majority of people posting on other sites do in fact own the game and do in fact stand to be directly affected by it?
Or are you just going to continue repeating the same baseless nonsense and spin over and over again in response to anyone who challenges or disagrees with what you say?
"15 trolls" on this site, eh? So, you feel the "same 15 trolls" Liked the post approving of subs in this thread 444 times as of my typing this? So, not only do you disregard the opinions of most of the over 400 people on this site who disagree with you, they're automatically trolls for doing so. If that's not a textbook perfect example of willful ignorance, I don't know what is.
You're also putting words in my mouth and arguing a strawman. Either that or you simply have horrendous reading comprehension. I don't dismiss anyone who has verifiably bought and/or has a character in the game. What I said, very clearly includes anyone who has verifiably purchased and/or has an active character in game. That includes people who haven't played the game for a year. It includes people who only check out the patches. It includes people actively playing. It includes - one more time - anyone who has actually bought the game, because they verifiably stand to be affected by SE's decisions.
I'll spell it out for you very simply. I'll even type more slowly so you can follow along...
Here is my stance summed up in 4 simple bullet points.
1. Someone who has bought the game stands to be affected by SE's decisions because they have invested time/money into the game. Their opinion has real value in the matter because the outcome could determine whether they continue to play or not.
2. Someone who has not bought the game, has invested no more money or time into it and, for all we know, has no intention of playing regardless does not stand to be affected by SE's decisions at all. Their opinion has little to no value in the matter because, either way, they're not playing.
3. On a site like ZAM or other non-official sites, the only requirement to vote or post on any topic is that you be a member of that site, including those dealing with FFXIV. On those sites, there is no way to verify that someone posting on a topic, or voting in a poll related to FFXIV even owns the game in the first place. There's no control for it. You could be someone who hates SE and wouldn't play anything they release, and you could still post in those threads or vote on those polls. There's no barrier for participation.
4. On this site, the official forums, in order to participate, post, vote, etc... You have to have bought the game and have an active character in-game. That's a requirement for participation. No game account = no forum account = you can't post/vote on anything here. Because the people voting here have verifiably invested in the game by virtue of the fact that they're posting here at all, it can be safely concluded that everyone here stands to be affected by SE's decisions going forward, be it on the subject of subscriptions or anything else affecting the game.
To be clear, in terms of whose vote is most influential, most immediate and most impactful to FFXIV's players...
Votes of Actual Game Owners > Votes of Non Game Owners
Thus... I put far more weight and value in the votes here than I do on a non-official site.
Now, I realize by now that you defer and cling desperately to the results of non fan sites because those numbers just happen to be in line with your personal views/agenda. I get it. I'm sure everyone else here does, too.
That doesn't eliminate the fact that the results of polls or votes on non-fan sites are dubious at best, due to the fact that they can be participated in by anyone, whether they own or play FFXIV or not. They can be tainted or influenced by people who have no investment in the game, nothing to lose or gain by the outcome.
I really can't explain it any more plain than that. Somehow I don't think it'll make a difference and you'll come back with your same BS as usual.
It's what you always do, after all. -
10-30-2011, 12:13 AMyukikaze_yanagiYou should better believe in chemtrailsQuote:
Originally Posted by TheVedis
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10-30-2011, 12:16 AMirongripz
because this debate turns into a who supports SE debate. we can not debate that with out indisputable harm to SE, because it seems as if we are trying to convince people to do otherwise. when in fact we are not again, I am just stating my disappointment and dissatisfaction at the game in the state it is in. then you trolls debate my opinions until the point i am not allowed to debate it on these forums. so again
one sided debate this thread should have been closed 20 pages ago. -
10-30-2011, 12:18 AMPreypacerBecause a picture is worth a thousand words, and because words and attempts at actually reasoning are lost on him...Quote:
Originally Posted by irongripz
Here's gripz previous post in a picture:
http://www.thenutritionpost.com/wp-c...aby-crying.jpg -
10-30-2011, 12:21 AMTheVedisnow lets take some other hard factsQuote:
Originally Posted by irongripz
1) what other games are doing has NO EFFECT on ones enjoyment of this game
2) what other games have in them have NO EFFECT on ones enjoyment of this game
3) playing another game on the side has NO EFFECT on ones enjoyment of this game
so lets think of it this way
you have a few choices
1) you enjoy the game and will pay for it
2) you enjoy the game, but player others more and dont have the time to make it worth playing this one
3) you dont enjoy the game, and have no reason to pay for something you dont enjoy
4) your a sheep who believes your only allowed to play 1 game at a time and you must plkay the most popular one out or your a nobody, thus you refuse to pay for this one -
10-30-2011, 12:27 AMirongripzyour whole debate is just stupid. those who bought the game at release have been able to play just like YOU.Quote:
Votes of Actual Game Owners > Votes of Non Game Owners
they paid just as much as YOU..
the game has been free for them TOO.
they was asked to wait just like YOU.
they can complain on any site they want.
Show you fact they deactivated accounts since you keep calling me out..
More people don't play this game than actually do play it.
But you right everyone deactivated their account when SE promised to fix the game.
but i see you come back wit same old BS as usual. -
10-30-2011, 12:40 AMSnugglebutt
I want to try SWTOR so I will vanish for little while when that comes out, but if that one isn't that good then I would come back to this one. The slower pace is fine with me and I have no desire to ever play WoW again but I also will have noted that I have no intention of paying for two MMOs subscriptions. I do think this game needs vast increase in quests however and I do miss my Mog House from FFXI. I have only just started playing this one so I do not know the details of second classes aka advanced classes yet as in if they in or won't be in till 2.0 but I like the idea behind them
I also like having the retainer do selling for me and other things but it is still my preference for more of simple search function for items and just easier to use trading as I currently have to go to market wards items search which is not even a search more like vast list in random order, scroll through write down current prices for dozens and dozens of items I have then go off call retainer put stuff in plus prices allocated I had to manually search each one through vast list to the items... Then go back yet again put retainer in ward. It's simply bit too much work imho.
The repeated copy paste enviroments which are being fixed for 2.0 never bothered me that much right now but then maybe that will change over time and get more annoying. Oh one last thing that irritates me is ALT-TAB causing crashing so once in if want to go find something out I end up having to log out and back in again after. Playing in windowed mode cause serious lag on my system unfortuantly. If all those things are fixed I will be very happy person come version 2.0. They are the only downside I have with game right now which is shame but I still enjoy playing it. If SWTOR wasn't coming out soon I wouldn't even take break in first place but I do want to try that other one at least for few months see if like it I admit.
So it will go like this ~
Play FFXIV until SWTOR comes out.
Quit playing FFXIV for period of time to give SWTOR a try which will probably last few months.
(If SWTOR I like alot I'll be playing that until version 2.0 comes out for FFXIV which I am really thinking will be very good.)
I will then come back at 2.0 and play FFXIV again.
(If SWTOR is not my thing and I don't enjoy it much.)
Then I will come back and play FFXIV again until version 2.0 of which time will assess the changes and decide if stay.
Thats my plan in pure for me logical simple form. -
10-30-2011, 12:41 AMVawn
I find it funny his name is Iron Gripz, yet he actually has no grip at all.
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10-30-2011, 12:53 AMirongripzaww hes so cute. thats about what most people look like after playing this game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Preypacer
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10-30-2011, 12:55 AMVawnSomehow I can respect that plan more than:Quote:
Originally Posted by Snugglebutt
If I like FFXIV:
- continue playing FFXIV.
If I don't like FFXIV:
- continue playing FFXIV, but make it my mission to convince everyone it sucks. Post 50x daily about how the game sucks and how SE is behind some conspiracy theories to keep me from telling the TRUTH. Ultimate goal: everyone quits, servers shut down and I can finally leave the game behind. -
10-30-2011, 01:01 AMirongripzsee you miss the point im not playing ffxiv atm, im tabbed out in between my queque, to complain about a crappy game. get it straight. i might play ffxiv again after next patch till then game has nothing fun to offer besides grind a char in dreadfull playing conditionsQuote:
Originally Posted by Vawn
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10-30-2011, 01:21 AMkensredemption
This thread's still alive? Sheesh.
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10-30-2011, 02:25 AMZanfireagain your options are too black and white. Im in the middle of those, im enjoy it to an extent, but i see its flaws, but i also see the potential. Im not going to pay because its not worth a monthly sub...yet. There is a lack of content, especially end game and still plenty of issues, some of which cannot be fixed until 2.0Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVedis
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10-30-2011, 02:31 AMZanfirefired from this project...yep. They were not kicked from the company, but kicked off the game because what they provided was not good enough so they were replaced. It was not some merry go round they keep swapping people for fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kafeen
Yes you will hear those complaints, they need to be fixed and as long as the are left unchanged, its hard not see them. If you think the forums will suddenly turn into sunshine and rainbows when the payments starts...well your dead wrong.
and thats exactly how some of us have been, just not satisfied with how it is now, but we dont hate the game. -
10-30-2011, 03:09 AMJennestiaLast I heard Tanaka for example was still a consultant for this project and the other who changed positions weren't 'fired' in any sense of the term, they were switched around -- Being fired is being let go from a company.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanfire
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10-30-2011, 03:21 AMKafeenLooking at http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...icuid=12155791 you played every day between the 9th and the 25th. Everyday for over 2 weeks straight. You can't think the game is that bad. You must be enjoying it to play it every day. Are you seriously saying you played ever day for over 2 weeks without being satisfied with the game?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanfire
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10-30-2011, 03:36 AMTheVedisyou probly fall into wanting to play something else then, so it is pretty black and whiteQuote:
Originally Posted by Zanfire
"not enough content" usualy means your comparing it to something else which you are probly also playing or have played -
10-30-2011, 05:48 AMAmyRaeUm. Who cares whose vote is worth more?Quote:
Originally Posted by Preypacer
If you want FFXIV to be affordable, last for years, with frequent updates, with plenty of art (comics, youtubes, stories, etc.), with vibrant, up-to-date services, fansites, and wikis, you need a large community to support it. The larger the better.
If there are indications that this community is about to drastically shrink, and I think there are, it's in your own interest to support measures to get people back, not fight over whose vote is worth more.
If you're in this for selfish glory, you'll see the wisdom in what I'm saying. You'll get so much more for yourself for so little.
If you're in this to make friends, you'll see the wisdom in what I'm saying. Larger community. More people. More friends.
If you're in this to immerse yourself, you'll see the wisdom in what I'm saying. More artistry, creativity, and contributions from people helps to make the world seem more alive.
There's absolutely no way, in my opinion, that you should fighting this idea. There's nothing to lose and everything to gain. The richness of your experience in FFXIV hinges on this. -
10-30-2011, 11:33 AMthedevilsjester
FFXIV in its current state is better than any other MMO out there and offers me features that not many can compete with. FFXIV is destined for the PS3, has full controller support and allows one character to be every class. All three of those features, to me, are not negotiable. As such FFXIV has no competition.
I will gladly pay for FFXIV and I am happy to see that they are charging again, it will be a much needed house cleaning. -
10-30-2011, 11:50 AMCoglinQuote:
Originally Posted by irongripz
That is correct. If you want to have a grip and complain session, then feel free to do so, IN A THREAD DESIGNATED FOR IT.
Make a thread "If you are a disgruntles, dissatisfied costumer, post your complaints here."
This thread is simply an "are you staying or going" thread.
BUT, thats not what I was generally getting at. My issue was with the posters literally trying to tell those who like the game that there reasons for liking it are invalide, and why......which is just wrong. -
10-30-2011, 12:28 PMShippServer lag bruh. It is impossible to not have any lag in XIV since it's not a client-side issue, it is an SE server-side issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeroeffect
I laugh every time someone tries the, "lolur PC sucks, I have no lag," response, because it makes them look like imbeciles. This is part of the reason WHY we are getting 2.0, because the current servers cannot handle an MMO.