Are you fricking serious? Are you 12? Man up, bud. There's nothing more cowardly than not being able to represent your own words.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fouluryu
You just destroyed any possible credibility you could have ever had. Nice try, though.
Power-leveling is absolutely BROKEN
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10-08-2011, 05:38 PMIssac
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10-08-2011, 05:40 PMFouluryuOh no... Not my game resume. Oh eh God's I hope I don't lose my chances to getting a job at SE...Quote:
Originally Posted by Issac
/rolls eyes. -
10-08-2011, 05:40 PMTravestyWell, based on the quality of his arguments maybe he is 12. Maybe we should take it easy on the little guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Issac
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10-08-2011, 05:41 PMIssacYou seem to enjoy going back and forth with the rest of us. Some people tend to put thought into their argument. But no, I can't take anything you say with an ounce of respect. Or do you not understand what it means to be sincere?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fouluryu
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10-08-2011, 05:48 PMFouluryuHaving your friends or using alt accounts to agree with your own argument doesn't accumulate your actual age or intelligence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Travesty
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10-08-2011, 05:50 PMIssacSo bold to assume.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fouluryu
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10-08-2011, 05:51 PMTravestyMy god I think he's serious haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fouluryu
If I was gonna make alt accounts to make my posts look well-liked, I'd make more than 1. -
10-08-2011, 05:52 PMMindx3
i think this topic has been officialy hi-jacked by the trolls
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10-08-2011, 05:52 PMTeknoman
I guess the actual rate isnt a bad thing, but the rate given to parties with larger differences in player level should be toned down. I dont think exp rates should be anywhere near XI levels...but not everyone should be able to blitz through 10-15 levels in a flash (exaggeration).
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10-08-2011, 05:53 PMTravestyYeah, I'm not gonna reply to this guy anymore. Let's get it back on topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindx3
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10-08-2011, 05:54 PMNanaya
At this point, the post count speaks for itself, we just need to keep it in most popular until the devs get back from their weekend of making it hail from the tens of dollars they've made off of this game.
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10-08-2011, 05:57 PMIssac
We've been sitting at 79 "thumbs-up" in the OP for a while now. I want to see it breach 100 by Monday. This really is a serious issue and it stands a better chance at being fixed if we all stand firm and work together. If you agree and haven't pressed that little button yet, please do so now, and voice your opinions loud and clear.
Quick edit:
Holy crap, it worked! Whoever pushed it to 80, thank you. =] -
10-08-2011, 05:59 PMMindx3Its not that broken dude...Quote:
Originally Posted by Issac
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10-08-2011, 05:59 PMTeknoman:D lol took a double take.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanaya
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10-08-2011, 06:02 PMZenakuA level 1 can sit there while a 50 kill everything let's say a conj the person can get 1-30 within 1-2hours. then get 38 go to the stronghold do noting and get 38-45 then at 45+ fight and then get 50 this could easy take less then 3days or even 1days for a hardcore player. Btw the person could go to sleep and /sleep while the 50 kill for him all day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindx3
Don't say no one going to do it when i seeing over 10+ people every day now powerlevel ppl from 1-50. It's broken it must be taken care off.
you should never get 1-50 mad quick even yoshi-p said that people should at least take 3half months to get there first high level. -
10-08-2011, 06:05 PMFouluryuIt's not broken. They just want to push us uncapped 50 people down to make it harder to get to 50 while they're sitting at the top. All I'm saying is, it's just a method of power leveling and at the same time the lowbie players can still fight. 15 level difference is not that big a of a deal. If that was taken out, then there wouldn't be power leveling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindx3
I already see where this is going. This thread is going to eventually convince the devs, but I hope they're mindful who are the actual real players posting on here. It might be my assumption, but this sort of crap happens with pretty much any subject willing to nerf something just because something is likable. I say this because of the strong experience of nerf attacks that were made in the past of XI to make the jobs "ballanced" just so no one get's jealous.
If it does happen, all that I ask is just put an appropriate gap level for exp chains. Can we at least agree to that? -
10-08-2011, 06:08 PMTravesty....what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fouluryu
I'm one of the most vocal people about this and my highest class is 38. And I've stopped leveling as of this patch because if it stays this way I'm not coming back. So again, wtf are you talking about? -
10-08-2011, 06:09 PMIssac
I have been playing this game since release. I have trudged through it all with a smile on my face. I have led a LS, though I sucked at it, through grinding, NMs, and leve-linking. And now I begin on another server, enjoying everything for the most part, but this powerleveling issue is simply unacceptable. Sure, this is a forum, and anyone can say what they like.
But I'm not lying about how long I've been playing this game. I made our (now dead) linkshell's website from scratch after Open beta.
http://ffxiv.withfrosted.com
So if you want to knock at my credibility as a genuinely concerned long-time player and fan of Final Fantasy in general, have at it, because I know otherwise. -
10-08-2011, 06:14 PMMindx3Have you tested this do you know for a fact that 1-50 is possible in a day? Have you been to the stronghold i havent...but i have faught around higher level aggressive mobs and i heard spawn rates are crazy in there.... you bring a low lvl into there and prepare to agro and prepare to die that is all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenaku
1-50 in 24 hours lets break it down ...
I work 9-5 mon-fri i get home do my stuff eat dinner shower etc, get on around 6-7 play untill 11-12 5 hours avg. Now i know out of this 5 hours of play time i will only be really playing for 3hours in between afk, breaks, doing nothing,hanging out in uldah, chatting etc, so lets say i spend 3 hours lvling each day If 1-50 was possible in 24 hours that would litteraly take me 8 days to get a max lvl....i really dont mind this as i know i wont be just leveling 1 class for 8 days straight...and i could not play this game and kill mobs for 24 hours straight...i would shoot myself....weekends may increase lvling time but not by much. -
10-08-2011, 06:18 PMTravestyWe're talking about the number of actual hours it takes, not how long it will take you based on how many hours of free time you have in a day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindx3
And besides, if the kind numbers multiple people have reported are true, it could take as little as 8 hours. -
10-08-2011, 06:22 PMZenakuyou could get someone 1-20 within 1hour or less then you fight higher level mobs get them 20-30 within a few hours maybe 2-3 at best. Seeing how i'm seeing people doing that as i go making party for my conj i think you can get 1-35 within a small amount of time if you really stay with it and not go afk a lot and by that i mean the PL and if the pl is a conj this is how quick it would be just AOE everything to death get fast chain wait for repop which is very short and do that over and over again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindx3
I be happy to test it by why should i? RMT are doing it as i speak also many other players in many spot in the game.
Also remember you could be AFK just be on /follow and get 1-38 while you at work just get some 1-38 with someone who have more time then you. -
10-08-2011, 06:25 PMMindx3have you seen the numbers i reported? its really not that bad at lvl39, killing level 46+ with a 50 gave me about 4.3k/5min,Quote:
Originally Posted by Travesty
leves take 5-10 min depending on how bad your failing and reward 4.5k-5k plus 350 for each mob -
10-08-2011, 06:28 PMMindx3Then this is a issue with CNJ/THM and not really the leveling system?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenaku
Edit-- I would also like to note that in 1.18 me and about 5 of my LS mates literally got all our level 1classes, we each had about 5-6 each, to about lvl 15 in 2-3 hours so id believe 1-20 in an hour or so -
10-08-2011, 06:32 PMZenakuConj/thm can powerlevel you by AOE nuking or you can get a DD that can AOE also same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindx3
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10-08-2011, 06:33 PMIssacThe new core experience point system is not the issue. The lack of limiters is the issue. Powerleveling this extreme should not be possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindx3
It needs to be tweaked. -
10-08-2011, 06:38 PMNanaya
The difference is leves are a perishable source, rather than the unlimited, perpetual experience points device a party is.
And to put it simply, there is no reason anyone should be getting the 1k-1.5k exp off of a single mob, chain or otherwise. This isn't like classic PSO, where the gap from level 150-200 is quite the chasm, the highest exp amount you need to worry about is a rather lackluster 100k points.
Not to mention the fact that low levels can leech exp with no reprisal, and relatively insignificant diminishing returns. PLing is fine with someone outside of the party, healing and buffing you. I am completely fine with that, because you still have to kill it yourself. Where I draw the line is when a high level does all the work for you, and you reap incredible rewards for it. It breeds the contemptuous kind of gamer that thinks everything should be given to them, and can't handle it when they face any kind of adversity. And this is to say nothing of the potential boon RMT likely see. If this game actually does take off and become successful, this is the perfect opportunity for them to plan ahead and stockpile level 50s with very little work or effort involved, SE might as well have given them a machine that prints money. -
10-08-2011, 06:41 PMIssacQFT. I saw a pack of RMTs doing it already. Multiple packs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanaya
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10-08-2011, 06:43 PMMindx3RMT is the only downside i see to this...Quote:
Originally Posted by Issac
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10-08-2011, 06:46 PMZenakuThe downside is someone getting 1-38+ without doing work that should not be in a game. A game is about hard work even casual players enjoy leveling up just add more stuff to do around 10-15-20-30 like garrsion bcnm that casual can enjoy and it should be fine. issue the 15 dungeon they added is not even fun oh look a 50 killing everything there goes my exp can't solo here /tell hey can i join "sure why not" /follow brb going to eat come back oh nice 5level within 30mins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindx3
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10-08-2011, 06:51 PMBetelgeuzah
Here's my issue with Yoshida's mindset:
What this essentially accomplishes, is that new players can skip the low-mid game's content so that they can play with their friends (who PL them). This is wrong on two levels: first, well, being able to skip most of the game sure does not sit well with me. Secondly, you create high level newbs that were essentially carried to the top like babies.
And with the second point, the biggest flaw becomes clear: Leveling is no longer an accomplishment of any kind. It takes practically no effort, and requires no dedication from the player's end. That said, important question arises: what is the point of having levels in this game in the first place? No dedication required. No skill required (which is a given). Leveling becomes as much of an accomplishment as getting Steam "accomplishments". You managed to create a character, ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED! That said, leveling becomes a waste of time. There is no point in even that tiny effort the game requires from you to get to level 50. It could be taken away and no one would care- whats the difference between 2 days of PLing and just, you know, starting at level 50? Former is just annoying and leaves you with no satisfaction (you just want to be done with it), the latter gets to the point directly and accomplishes what Yoshida seemingly wants to accomplish- to allow for newbs to jump right in and play with their friends.
All that said, do not assume that I am in favor of neither option. I like the leveling process. Once upon a time it required actual dedication, it felt like a real accomplishment once you were done and really, now, I always liked the fact that there was something new waiting for me around the corner, whether it be trip to Kazham or hunting for genkai items in Eldieme. Seeing a level 65 character was so BAD-ASS, being a lowly level 42 at the time. It may have been too rough of a process, but that roughness made it an accomplishment because it took dedication (and patience) to overcome it. Not Skill, but that is not a requirement and has never been.
It may not be what the game needs, but what I will argue is that making leveling into a mere annoyance you want to be done with ASAP is not what the game needs.
Alternatives: Level Sync. Instead of making the low level players skip the whole rest of the game in favor of doing the endgame stuff with a higher level friend, make the high level friend come down from his throne to help the low level player as an equal (strength wise) instead. You can still help him level, but it's not a matter of sucking on a thumb while you decimate the monsters but fighting equally where both members get to actually participate.
What I see as a downside to this is that the high level friend has to put in more effort to help the low level fellow, and has to re-do content he has done before and can't just keep doing his awesome endgame epic raiddungeonifrithypermodes. But let's face it: he has already dedicated himself to the game, and playing with a friend is ultimately pretty enjoyable regardless of your level. It's not a huge effort to ask. Not to mention the fact that he can also accomplish things for himself in the process. He can level new classes/jobs or accummulate spiritbond for his equipment.
Since (as far as I know) the EXP you gain from monsters is determined by the TNL of your current level (or in this case, synced level) the issue of XI where people could level to 75 in a level sync party in Qufim would be less likely to occur. Since there is a benefit in fighting mobs of your current level. I may be wrong in my assumption however.
All in all, I hope that Yoshida reconsiders his stance and thinks up some alternatives instead. I have made my opinion clear, and I think there is some weight to it. -
10-08-2011, 06:55 PMZenakuLevel Sync,EXP band,link account"not as crazy as wow version" you still have to level and still grow as you play but you get there little faster not a mad way of doing it. Vs get someone to pl you go watch tv and come back and gain 15-20 level of watching a movie.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
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10-08-2011, 07:08 PMIssac
Alright, I went through the first 20 pages picking up random points of interest in the issue at hand. I'm not doing this to show how many people agree. Heck, the list started getting too long and I was growing tired of rereading everything so I skipped to the end for the last point. Anyway, here they are:
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Originally Posted by KamikazeMan
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Originally Posted by Jericho
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Originally Posted by Blarp
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Originally Posted by Rinsui
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Originally Posted by Travesty
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Originally Posted by Travesty
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Originally Posted by Senprum
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Originally Posted by Senprum
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Originally Posted by Nanaya
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10-08-2011, 08:24 PMzaviermhigo
I love how everyone who is brand new is rushing to 50 now, so they can do the ifrit fight, and the dungeons, and maybe kill the nm in the stronghold. But these aren't really that many things, to think people are rushing to 50 for like 5 things of content at max is ridiculous. I can almost understand Yoshi-P saying "hey you spent that time pling your friend, that's time and effort spent" but its the mentality of the players who are brand new, to be in a total rush to get to 50 for limited content. Content that seems for jobs most likely, and rushed out due to wah wah-ers, and now we struggle with classes, and beef ourselves up with materia. Once jobs come out those effing places will be a joke. But those people will just be spamming every class to 50 then in hopes they are the most useful person ever before jobs come out. What they should be doing is effing crafting so their high level buddies don't have to completely twink them.
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10-08-2011, 08:42 PMPence
The above post by Issac made me realise how bad this is.
Why do we even have levels? (Re: Travestys post).
From what I gather Yoishi wants friends to play endgame together instantly; but if you don't know anyone that plays you have to work for the right to participate in endgame.
Why bother working on content under 50 if you're treating it as junk? Awesome, you added a Lv.15 dugeon that become obsolete the moment you added it. Hello XIV Cataclysm. (Not getting the reference? WoWs latest expansion seems like they spent the majority of the time re-developing low level'd zones than endgame content where they should have been focused. In the end they delivered 30% in the expansion you purchased, and 70% in updates of old outdated areas)
As far as I'm concerned this is just a dirty 'We're too lazy and underfunded to add level sync'. (Not a complete XI fanboy, I played WoW longer, and other games even longer). Level sync in all its forms, both the anoying 'buy outdated Lv.30 gear to participate in Promies' and 'Gear syncs with you', was one of the defining features of XI to me. It allowed content to remain current and challenging while giving low-leveled players access.
When I first got to 30 in XI I seen all these cool looking players at 75. I wanted to earn the right to be one of them, I wanted to slave away so people could look up at me. I knew who was the shiz in the job, and who was just shiz. I had mentors and I waved at other main-healing non-summoning summoners and eventually became the one who mentored them in soloing bombs (Because sadly it was better EXP).
It may seem like I'm going on a tangent but it's all relevant. The partying, the grind, the communication of it all gives a sense of community. It gave you an identity...you stuck it out for months leveling a healing job...that says something about you...the Samurais named Sephirothxxx will deny it, but it gave identity.
TL;DR, nerf the exp already. -
10-08-2011, 09:17 PMBlarpI generally agree with what you've said, but people need to stop thinking it's 2003 and realize that the paradigm for MMO's has shifted dramatically since that time. The core demographic of MMO players has changed from the guys playing games like EQ1, and it's spiritual successor FFXI, to people playing games which more closely represent the Blizzard model. I'm not saying it's better, but that's just the market environment right now. Niche games exist, and for good reason, but I don't think SE was or is trying to capture that market. They essentially proved that they want a piece of the "casual gamer pie" when they stated they were going after World of Warcraft (an arrogant if not hilarious comment.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pence
If SE still wants to turn this game into more than a niche game, which I think they do, then they need to have design goals and philosophies to satisfy both crowds. The farther along we get, the more I think that's exactly what they're doing. For example, two versions of Ifrit; two versions of Darkhold, and now we come to the new XP system. It should be slowed down, but if you're expecting a game like FFXI or EQ1 where it takes you a year to hit level cap, I think you will be disappointed in the final outcome. Leveling needs to remain relevant, but I think people advocating for XI style leveling need to take off the rose tinted glasses. I don't want people getting to 50 in a week, but I also don't think it should take months to hit level cap. Why must we have an extreme one way or the other? -
10-08-2011, 09:58 PMPreypacerHere's the thing about those "extremes" though... you can't place XI in the same category as other MMORPGs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blarp
Why?
Well, for one, character development in XI is/was much more multi-dimensional than it is in many other MMOs - especially those from the WoW mold.
For one example, in XI players were not working on one single job to level cap. They were typically working on several. They'd have a few main jobs, some sub-jobs etc. Getting a job to 75 was only part of a larger goal of developing you character.. not the goal, as many see it in other, more recent MMOs. Arguably, if players did stick to one job - never unlock an advanced job, never work on support jobs, etc.. and could actually pull it off... they'd have gotten to 75 a lot faster.
Of course you also had the Genkai quests which required players to complete quests to unlock the level cap for their first job. That took time.
Second, there were myriad goals along the way that players were working on, and each of those goals took time. In many newer MMOs (those from the WoW mold in particular) side activities, up to end game anyway, are typically after-thoughts, minor "filler". They're very much "jump in and jump out" affairs.
In XI? Not so. Every single side-activity they implemented was an entire system unto itself, and many of them were very important milestones to be accomplished. Storyline missions brought about some awesome experiences and some really nice loot to go with it.
Anyone here who played FFXI for some time and leveled at least one job to 75, but likely more than that... How many things did you do on your way up there? Was all your time spent in an xp party, or soloing on whatever? I will bet real money it wasn't. Because there were myriad other things you could do to develop and improve your character in that game besides xp'ing and getting better gear. Some of the things were required... some were optional, but very beneficial.
Point is, the average player in FFXI typically had a quite long "to-do" list of goals they'd set, activities they wanted to do, things they wanted/needed to do. On that list, "getting to level 75" was only one of them, and not even the most "meaningful", because level 75 was not "the end of the road" in XI. There were up to 19 other jobs left to work on before you could truly say you'd "capped your character". 'course you could choose not to level some of them, but that was a personal choice, not a game limitation.
Everything that was meaningful or beneficial to your character in FFXI had to be earned, and earning them was often not a trivial task.
Other than getting better gear, there really isn't a whole lot else for players to focus on in newer MMOs. It's grinding out quests, doing only the instances/dungeons that yield the best gear for the PvE minded; it's grinding PvP arenas for the points to get better gear for the PvP folks. And at the end of the road.. it's "end game raiding". And that's really it. Any other side-activities are so inconsequential as to be considered "pointless" by a lot of players. Newer MMORPGs can be very wide in terms of quantity of content, but they're rather shallow in terms of variety.
So.. the point is.. Though it could be said that XI has/had a very slow leveling curve... That time was very full with a large variety of content.It wasn't the hollow/pointless "grind" many people complain of in other MMOs. Of course, there are those who did nothing but grind in XI and would say it was... but they limited themselves, no one did it to them.
People were always working on something, working toward some goal, striving toward some milestone that either the game presented, or they'd set for them self. -
10-08-2011, 10:01 PMPence
I know I came off as some hardcore 2003 lover, I loved it then. I was 15? 14? God knows. But now I have a full time job, UNI, volunteer positions that I'm forced into by my partner, and Dead Island...I'm as casual as they get.
Somewhere around Aht Urghan is a good leveling pace. It wasn't as slow as COP, but not as fast as Abyssea. Dedicated you could easily do it in a couple of weeks. I think a reasonable time frame for hitting 50 should be 2-3 months.
If anything I would love it to be a World of XI. Both have features I miss when playing the other. From what I've read Yoishi wouldn't it being such.
Edit in reply to Preypacer: I still don't understand why job switching on 1 char. hasn't caught on? Do any other games even do it? I've yet to find one... -
10-08-2011, 10:07 PMIssacQuote:
Originally Posted by Preypacer
I think I just cried from nostalgia. :(
God I miss that... Someone, please bring that kind of gameplay back. XI is a wreck now. :( -
10-08-2011, 10:30 PMVaer
This type of "power leveling" is silly if you compare it with the progression you get if you actually play the game legitly. That's my only problem with it. All you people rat on all the people that want soloing and how they want it to give more exp yet many support this. Might as well up the exp across the board if you are going to allow this type of speed to the top. You say "How does power leveling affect you?" Well, "How does soloing affect you?"
Easiest way to fix this is to put a cap on the exp you get, something like 200-300, which I thought they were going to do. You could still power level, it would just take.. a lot longer.
XI was awesome from a masochistic point of view. The low drop rates were disheartening, but made it just that more satisfying when you got it. Plus, not everyone was wearing the same thing, those who put the effort into it got to wear it, while the people who put less effort/no effort didn't. (Until all the changes and watering down) There would be times you would just be completely pissed off, but you just couldn't look away and began playing again the next day. Early on in the game, the curve pretty much weeded out the lazy people. XI soloing was a lot, a lot harder than this game.
But the masochistic formula for MMOs has passed, we are now stuck with instant gratification and spoon fed rewards. R.I.P FFXI 3/22~23/2010 -
10-08-2011, 10:40 PMBlarpThe simple fact is that character progression, regardless of depth, is the most fundamental part of an MMO. Everything in FFXI was tied to leveling just as everything in a game like World of Warcraft is tied to it. Your goals in FFXI may have been much broader and varied, but they still revolved around your level. The goals and progression are only different in scope.Quote:
Originally Posted by Preypacer