Former WoW player: Suggested changes to FFXIV Raiding end-game

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Originally Posted by Garnix

Again, I am not saying that it should become WoW and become all about raids.

I am a casual player myself and don't do any difficult content whatsoever.
I think that the team is doing a good job for players like me. The amount of non-endgame-raiding content is fine. And they are adding more and more and more over time.
Including that Island Sanctuary which is likely to become a big part of my time in game depending on what it actually ends up being.

However, what I am observing is that a lot of the criticisms the game is getting, especially with Shadowbringers, and even from people who have been playing the game for years, are about the lack of challenging content.
So, while I personally don't care, I think they should not cater to any specific audience. Which means there should be more casual content AND more difficult content.

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They already have Savage and Ultimate and sometimes Extremes. The challenging content is already there. But it's the typical problem of people who only focus on one aspect, chew through that, and then want more more more. They are never satisfied. This game doesn't cater to that mindset. It tries to have a balance for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Genbe197

Um.....

1. Tanks have an interrupt and a silence and is used all the time on trash, to interrupt AOEs to intterupt self buff spells, to stop from using tank busters or heavy aoe dmg attacks, One example that is pretty easy are the little dudes in Il Mheg dungeon who will buff the trees if you don't SILENCE them. Can you live? Yes probably, Did you just make it more annoying? Yes. We don't want too punishing effects in dungeons because then it leads to TOXIC behavior of getting mad at someone for not being 100% on al all times. Its all over WoW if you want that type of TOXIC gameplay where one little mistake in a DUNGEON will wipe you go play that.

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What part of "You have one at-most 5-second stun (at best stopping 2 auto-attacks) to which any significant enemy past Ifrit will be immune, and a single interrupt, per 30 seconds" says that you don't have an interrupt?

But no, you don't have both an interrupt and silence. I realize the different may be from before your time, though, so to be brief:

A Silence, like Pacify, prevents the completion AND START of any spell for a set duration, which is more handy for pulling casters into place, for instance. They've since been removed. An interrupt... interrupts an ongoing cast; it cannot be used with any effect prior to a cast's start.

Nor is the interrupt useful "all the time". Across the past 29 levels' worth of dungeons, it has one stand-out case on a mob who can also be killed off via normal AoE in a competent group before getting its cast off (Il Mheg - Water Wheel). The majority of self-buff casts are not spells, and therefore cannot be interrupted, only stunned.

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2. No...This is so boring trash fights are boring its a raid fight for raids you do bosses, you are basically describing a dungeon. Go play more dungeons if you want trash and bosses....

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I don't know what any of this has to do with "checkpoints", but okay? (You do realize, though, that until Stormblood, all raids had trash. Even now, all 24-man raids have trash. Raids are not defined by the absence of trash.)

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3. He is literally describing mythic plus with scaling ilvl which is another source of TOXIC gameplay in wow, Oh you havent done a +15 then no we don't want you in this content 50 ilvls below that. If you want cosmetics and challenge once again Ultimate and min ilvl are there for you, but it isnt about that you want higher Ilvl and better gear so you can not include people.

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If he did, you'd think the words "Mythic plus" or "scaling ilvl" would have appeared, rather than an explicit statement that it ought not drop higher ilvl gear (only additional tomestones). But hey, what's an explicit statement to the contrary got against your tangential assumptions? Let your "truth" ring.

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4. and [1] gearing is not toxic like that in FF since the BiS gears are not even customizable. [2] lol I have never had anyone ask about gear beyond Ilvl in FF so [3] this seems like some weird esoteric thing to who ever you play with.

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First, BiS gears are customizable. See materia, however trivial. See relic weapons. Nor does that change whether gearing is, of all things, somehow inherent "toxic". Second, you're describing the very same situation as WoW. Meanwhile, that "weird esoteric population" is literally just PuGs in either game.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

It tries to have a balance for everyone.

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So long as they only enjoy the fruit of multiple difficulties... in a single form of content, which is to say 8-man, ultra-scripted fights in a perfectly circular/rectangular room.

Step outside the circle/rectangle, and you're back to only one, incredibly basic difficulty level.

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Originally Posted by Yagrush

It feels like you're the only one that actually read my post and replies. Cheers, fam.

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Yeah, sorry about that. I'd offer that maybe we can be more explicit in what we're looking for to improve comprehension, but, explicit statements haven't exactly stopped people from misconstruing the OP or saying that she's said the opposite of what she has, so... /shrug.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

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You realize there is a gil fee for non-80-crafters to actually attach said materia?

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No there isnt and you can meld your own materia after talking to Mutamix. You need a crafter job but you can meld your own.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

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You realize there is a gil fee for non-80-crafters to actually attach said materia?

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Nope. The Materia Melder NPCs that attach materia charge a fee, but there is no requirement to go to that NPC. The NPC is for the convenience of players who choose not to pursue a crafting job in-game.

Every leveling crafter except Culinarian has to attach materia to something for the level 20 job quest, with no gil charge whatsoever.

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Again, for non-80-crafters. You literally both quoted that line.

To meld your own materia to a piece of level 80 gear, to quote the game, "You must be on a level 80 Disciple of the Hand to meld this materia."

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Again, for non-80-crafters. You literally both quoted that line.

To meld your own materia to a piece of level 80 gear, to quote the game, "You must be on a level 80 Disciple of the Hand to meld this materia."

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There's no fee to have a friend do it tho, and many will do so if you just ask in a city.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

There's no fee to have a friend do it tho, and many will do so if you just ask in a city.

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I'm not sure why the point here is so elusive. It is a brief but nonetheless convoluted series of menu-steps that neither has an engaging final result (the small additions to secondary stats at % per stat point so low one can at best barely feel the difference) nor engaging process (extracting materia, melding materia, retrieving materia -- none of which processes are fundamentally necessary, but simply exist, as it were, to exist).

Are we really so certain that such is the best and only way gearing customization can or should work in this game?

If not, then I don't see why materia existing should mute any and all conversation on gear customization.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I'm not sure why the point here is so elusive. It is a brief but nonetheless convoluted series of menu-steps that neither has an engaging final result (the small additions to secondary stats at % per stat point so low one can at best barely feel the difference) nor engaging process (extracting materia, melding materia, retrieving materia -- none of which processes are fundamentally necessary, but simply exist, as it were, to exist).

Are we really so certain that such is the best and only way gearing customization can or should work in this game?

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I won't say yes or no to that. But frankly, I prefer minimal stat changes over skill changes and the like.

I don't think it's that confusing to figure out or deal with. Materia is fairly straightforward.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

So long as they only enjoy the fruit of multiple difficulties... in a single form of content, which is to say 8-man, ultra-scripted fights in a perfectly circular/rectangular room.

Step outside the circle/rectangle, and you're back to only one, incredibly basic difficulty level.

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Crafting
Gathering
Gold Saucer Games
Sightseeing
Achievements
Glamour
Exploration
Hunts

There is a ton to do in this game but those people asking for more more more more often never touch any of these things.

Ultimate is made for the highest of the high in this game. They only have certain people who work on it and balance it. The majority of players in this game will never see it. But what do we hear? There aren't enough of them, now we want catered dungeons and trials, more more more. Sorry, but this game cares about more than end game. And if the end game people choose not to partake of that, then that's on them.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

No, the game has nothing like what was being requested.

The example was Mastery, a stat available to every spec and useful to every spec, but the effects of which varies by spec. That has nothing to do with Power-but-for-melee-other-than-Ninja, Power-but-for-Ninja-and-Ranged, Power-but-for-DPS-Casters, and Power-but-for-healers. Those aren't job-specific effects. They're the same effect. They're just convoluted to extend time spent grinding..

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Ah. It suddenly becomes clear.

Sure let's bring in Mastery as a stat. And also change the way your character works so that you can take only one class/job per character, with three different specs for that job and talent trees, with Mastery changing depending on your spec, since that's the way it works in that game. Let's also make it so players can ignore the story entirely, and add in dungeons with multiple levels of difficulty. And, finally, let's redo the graphics so that it looks as great as that other game ...

Oh, wait, you can already get a subscription to that other game, which is not this game.

If you want to play WoW, play WoW. If you want to play FFXIV, play FFXIV. Or play both. There will be absolutely nobody mixing peanut butter with broccoli in this game.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

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In case it wasn't clear, Mastery provides 'spice' for a single specialty (spec) in a class with multiple specs. The Hunter spec "Beast Master" has a mastery that increases pet damage. The Hunter spec "Marksmanship" doesn't really use a pet, and instead increases range and damage. A player can only have one of three specialties at any time. The Mastery on their gear changes effects when they change specs. There is a single set of effects for each of the three specialties for each class.

In a game with zero specialties for a job, it loses it's ability to bring flavor to the game, and can easily be subsumed into your main job stat without having to add yet another stat to gear.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

If you want to play WoW, play WoW. If you want to play FFXIV, play FFXIV. Or play both. There will be absolutely nobody mixing peanut butter with broccoli in this game.

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Imagine if Yoshida had this kind of mentality

Good ideas can be extracted from WoW. This shouldn't be novel nor surprising. So I don't get the allergy to the idea. Specially when you never brought an argument against the concept of a job altering stat other than "hurdur it came from WoW"