Monk should it be "Nerfed" ?

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Originally Posted by Rakeesh

The only thing that nerfing things would do is disrupt people going through Savage now with their current setups.

Also as I said earlier in this thread, what's the point of nerfing jobs when the enrage timers are so tight this time around?

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I definitely agree with this. Nerfs should be reserved for *unintended* power levels and things that just completely throw stuff out of whack for no valid reason. BLM is fine where it's at, MNK was probably unintentional to a certain degree and may get a small nerf at some point, SAM needs buffs to be near BLM, and MCH/BRD/DNC/SMN/RDM need to be brought up to a viable level.

This is the most reasonable course of action because as was stated, when you already have enough "overtuned" jobs to form a full party composition and the game is balanced with them in mind, it means they are not overtuned but that other jobs are undertuned. Buffing the low performance jobs wouldn't create power creep as the level of power has been there since the start and merely extends the number of viable party compositions instead of just revenge-nerfing jobs because they stuffed your job of choice in the shed.

According to SSS MNK is meant to be above SAM. As it always had a higher dps requirement, evem DRG did iirc. So it being unintentionally high doesn't fit with what was already established. Even before MNK buffs. Nonetheless that's not to say that SAM should be below MNK in pDPS.

I fully agree with what Rakeesh said; at this point nerfing jobs does nothing except hinder groups that are using said jobs.

Furthermore the raid has been cleared in min ilvl so it's not like a power creep would have any impact on this raiding tier as it's been done and cleared day 1. Any future content should be balanced around buffs. What we don't want to see though is 2 similar jobs being buffed back and forth until they are so OP and destroy the competition (mch, brd in HW). I think the devs will have learned their lesson on that one though.

I'm confused. At the start of the Expansion I saw a lot of complaining from MNKs and now their supposed to be one of the top DPS but I sometimes still see MNK's complain about the job.

WTH has happened with this class while I wasn't looking and why do people still complain about it considering it was the kicked dog for 2 expansions(One of them being their 'own poster' expansion)?

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Originally Posted by MaelleRiou

Buffing the jobs that are behind wouldn't really do that since there's enough jobs already doing that level of DPS. If it was like, just monk and black mage up at the top and everyone else was around the same then nerfing would make more sense.

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So you both buff the bad jobs and nerf the good jobs, that will bring the balance in line without reducing the overall rDPS of all jobs collectively. Ultimately that is what needs to happen, the overall rDPS across all jobs should not change, but how that rDPS is distributed should be.

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Originally Posted by Sora_Oathkeeper

According to SSS MNK is meant to be above SAM. As it always had a higher dps requirement, evem DRG did iirc. So it being unintentionally high doesn't fit with what was already established. Even before MNK buffs. Nonetheless that's not to say that SAM should be below MNK in pDPS.

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The problem right now is that monk has a much lower dps requirement than it used to.It's quite easy to keep up gl and with pb,low true north cd and the new riddle of earth you dont even need to hit positionals most of the time.If anything its probably now the lowest skill ceiling of all the melee dps.
SE didnt listen to the long time monk players and instead interpreted it as *doing positionals is too hard* so they gave monk extra ways to avoid useing postionals on top of boosting the damage to make up for having to do positionals.doing both things contradicts itself.It should have been one or the other and not both.

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Originally Posted by MerlinCross

I'm confused. At the start of the Expansion I saw a lot of complaining from MNKs and now their supposed to be one of the top DPS but I sometimes still see MNK's complain about the job.

WTH has happened with this class while I wasn't looking and why do people still complain about it considering it was the kicked dog for 2 expansions(One of them being their 'own poster' expansion)?

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As I understand it.

Before QOL buffs: MNK still didn't have the QOL the community had been asking for. Numbers were still really good, no one noticed because no one played the class.

After QOL Buffs: With Form Shift and Riddle Changes, all the Greased lightning maintenance skills feel really out of place in their kit. All the monk's big payoff moves are not practical so you're using the exact same rotation from forever ago. The numbers are great, but the job hasn't evolved at all from ARR.

MNK is like super sayian level with utility, my biggest issue with MNK is its out dpsing BLM while offering more, while other jobs offering just as much or even less are taxed to hell and doing tons less.

SAM should definitely be neck and neck with BLM and MNK needs to be brought down or what’s the point of arguing about balance while MNK sticks out like a soar thumb....I won’t talk about job mechanics or difficulty because both are subjective.

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Originally Posted by ownagepuffs

As I understand it.

Before QOL buffs: MNK still didn't have the QOL the community had been asking for. Numbers were still really good, no one noticed because no one played the class.

After QOL Buffs: With Form Shift and Riddle Changes, all the Greased lightning maintenance skills feel really out of place in their kit. All the monk's big payoff moves are not practical so you're using the exact same rotation from forever ago. The numbers are great, but the job hasn't evolved at all from ARR.

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I'd argue that by the end of Stormblood the job had evolved but then it was regressed in Shadowbringers.At end of stormblood we had tornado kick in our opener because of the riddle of wind changes.We could also use it in our rotations due to the lower cd on pb.
Stormblood monk was quite strong but some of the damage buffs were given to ducktape the overlaying issues of the job which they had promised to deal with in Shadowbringers.WHat we got instead in Shadowbringers was a dumbed down version of monk on steroids.Weaving isnt really a thing we have to do anymore and you're there now just doing a static rotation while waiting to be able to hit an extra button every now and again.
Stormblood monk was erally busy.Shadowbringer monk is nearly an autopilot.

Should MNK be nerfed?
No.
MNK has been fairly dead all during SB and right now its honestly in a good spot to the point many other jobs need buffs to catch up to them instead of nerfing. The DPS requirements of the current savage tier are still fairly tight on underperforming jobs, MNK doesn't single handidly blow any fight out of the water.

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Originally Posted by BarretOblivion

Should MNK be nerfed?
No.
MNK has been fairly dead all during SB and right now its honestly in a good spot to the point many other jobs need buffs to catch up to them instead of nerfing. The DPS requirements of the current savage tier are still fairly tight on underperforming jobs, MNK doesn't single handidly blow any fight out of the water.

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Fairly dead? A good MNK could replace NIN in the DRG-MCH-BRD meta comps since Deltascape, and has typically outperformed NIN rDPS since early Alphascape.

Again, unless the Savage dps checks are just coincidentally undertuned even with off-meta compositions and were actually supposed to be tuned to the ease that 4 MNKs would currently experience without LB penalty, BLM, MNK, and DRG are presently overpowered. (Even now the dps checks are not tight due to underperforming jobs, only due to underperforming players. Short of multiple deaths, they're not at all an issue.) When you bring all jobs up to an overpowered level, i.e. make every job overpowered, the only difference from actually sticking to one's guns and tuning all jobs to the appropriate rDPS benchmark (even if that means some nerfs) is that you further trivialize content. Sure, Nerfs won't feel great for previously overpowered classes, but there is nothing wrong with nerfs in themselves; they are both helpful and necessary when they're the only option short of power creep.