Your reaction if SE adds in a Passive Ability to Mobs...

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

So, you put in dungeons that are more challenging on a basis besides, 'but muh Aoes,' and suddenly you could very well see the general skill level of the player base start to rise. Keeping things braindead as is will only encourage people to stagnate...

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True, and that's the thing. Not just in 50 - 60 + dungeons but from level 15 and beyond. If they encourage the use of abilities as we go along by the time a new player is 50 they will be much better off.

The earlier dungeons from 15 - 21 could easily be adjusted to have less filler mobs, and could operate like what we have at 50/ 60 when they first came out. Hitting a bit harder forcing Rampart, aoe damage forcing medica. Enhancing or debuffing mobs..or getting he party to focus on one mob to quickly take it down.

Later make it so if you don't esuna, you're going to have a bad time. I understand that forcing them to do it isn't fun but if you make the battles fun to an extent, you're going to advance naturally without knowing it. Basically treat them like children, ticket them into eating some of their vegetables.

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Originally Posted by VirusChris

This... this is STILL going?! o_0
I honestly thought it would be over and done with back around page 3 or 4. I'm shocked to see people still discussing it. It was meant to be a simple question to response to with some interesting insight about such a feature.

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Of course! We're on a forum where if they release a pair of leather gloves that's for Males only someone is going to start setting fires. Brds raising hell "they took my job!" I'm sure there's still at least 2 or so threads in the healer section about someone who doesn't want to damage deal or someone who feels it should be 100% and no one is willing to budge to meet in a common middle ground. Or asking how to DPS...

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

This is exceedingly unlikely to happen. SE depends on people who grind dungeons in order to keep queue times low for people who want to do those dungeons. They want players to play a wide variety of dungeons - hence the existence of Roulettes. The last thing they want to do is to funnel players into one, specific dungeon.

This isn't to say that there aren't flaws in the current system, and there are absolutely some dungeons and roulettes that get sadly neglected. Making a specific "grinding" dungeon, however, would just make this problem so much worse. It's the opposite direction from SE's preferred goal, keeping all dungeons stocked with plenty of players at all times. Keeping dungeons populated is half the reason we have roulettes and tomestone rewards in the first place (the other half being that this is a MMO, and in pretty much any MMO you're gonna wind up grinding something simply because they want to keep you playing as much as possible to reduce unsubscription rates).

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That said, our only current-currency efficient roulette includes a mere 2 dungeons, while farming past currency has pretty much always been relegated to a single dungeon. (See Castrum -> WP -> Brayflox -> ACRF.)

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

You're misunderstanding me.

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This clearly goes both ways. I'm saying, quite specifically, that whether a dungeon can be "speedrun" (in the sense of having no added gating, etc., or allowing the maximal use of one's stats) has no direct correlation to whether "speedrunners" will run it, or even like it. As long as the dungeon design isn't so unbearably clunky that even those aiming for efficiency would refuse to run it for their peace of mind, it has only to do with rewards over time. Creating a "speedrun" dungeon for that group of players achieves nothing so long as another dungeon—be it the epitomy of gating, even—technically produces more rewards per minute when both are run optimally. Moreover, the more choices fit that range (are approximately equally optimal), the higher the QoL for those players.

The only crowd there'd be a reason to specifically create a dungeon with fewer complicators for are those who quite simply can't handle anything complicated, and would be outliers to the expected rewards/minute scaling on any other content every time.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

That said, our only current-currency efficient roulette includes a mere 2 dungeons, while farming past currency has pretty much always been relegated to a single dungeon. (See Castrum -> WP -> Brayflox -> ACRF.)

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While there is a single "most efficient" dungeon for farming the previous currency, the fact of the matter is that folks are more than willing to set aside optimal efficiency in order to not go out of their minds with the repetition. While a player COULD go ARCF -> ARCF -> ARCF and net themselves 450 Lore, they could instead go Expert Roulette -> Level 60 Roulette -> Level 50 Roulette -> Trial Roulette to get on average 430 to 470 Tomestones in roughly the same amount of time (substantially more Tomes, if they luck into ARCF for their Level 60, or if they run into first-timers and their accompanying bonuses). If they still feel the need to grind beyond this, there's nothing preventing them from heading back to ARCF - or, they could simply say, "That's enough tomestones for today! We'll get more when the Roulettes reset tomorrow."

Another incentive to this is Wandering Tails; a player in the habit of running Roulettes for their tomes in the above manner is going to fill in the Level 60 and Level 50 categories easily enough. Running Leveling Roulette as well will tack on an additional 100 Tomes, and likely check off the sub-50 and 51-59 stickers, as well (though, granted, even here the incentive for Leveling isn't the best, given the bad tomes-to-time ratio and the ease of filling out stickers with Primals and Coils).

ARCF may be mathematically the best way to grind out Tomestones, but humans aren't computers, and variety has appeal. The Roulettes provide almost as many Tomestones, while providing that variety. It's not perfect (as mentioned, Leveling Roulette really needs better incentive; that's most likely why it's a powerful component of the latest Relic step).

Additionally, it's a mistake to assume that speedrunners do their thing solely because they're striving for efficiency. Many, myself included, do it because it's more fun, engaging, and satisfying, than plodding group-by-group through a dungeon. Even when I play as DPS, I prefer it; I have plenty of opportunity to use my fancy single-target combos on bosses and raids. Even if my aoe options are much more limited, it's a welcome change of pace. And, less buttons to use or not, it's certainly the case that handling your aoes in certain ways can be more or less efficient, so there's still the opportunity to push your limits and figure out the best ways to aoe. The excitement is certainly there when I play healer, as well - with the overwhelming amount of damage the tank is taking, how much DPS will I be able to slip in while still keeping her alive?