Can Accuracy and Parry be removed already?

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

replace acc with double attack :3 , is like Duality skill of nin but passive % chance to proc ....and let it crit FFS

imagine if jump crit and proc double attack , doble jump crit , or double fell cleave crit ....what about deathflare double crit? :o

i loved double attack (Triple attack) on FFXI , haste too sadly S.Speed is a poor replacement.

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issue with this is threat.. OT gets a double FC crit proc on first FC or god forbid on both of there FCs in opener and MT will not be tanking

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

I was kinda curious about this, as was the case before level cap increase, the difference between "best" in slot and "worst" in slot was only around 5% difference.

But I'm not quite sure removing all secondaries only amounts to 14% damage. I'll have to do some actual math in a bit to see what I come up with.

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My current stats:

• Physical Weapon Damage: 77
• Strength: 934
• Vitality: 1194
• Critical Hit Rate: 600
• Determination: 654
• Skill Speed: 662

Using Dervy's stat weights for warrior in Deliverance:

77*22.030 + 934*1.0 + 1194*1.0 + 654*0.303 + 600*0.378 + 662*0.277 = 4432.6

Removing secondaries:

77*22.030 + 934*1.0 + 1194*1.0 = 3824.3

3824.3 / 4432.6 = 0.862, or 86.2%

Though I will admit that in practice it would end up being more than that, because that calculation ignores the contribution from accuracy, since it's assuming you'd cap that before doing anything else.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

No, hold on, you say this and someone else above called accuracy a 'binary stat'. If your accuracy is below cap, you will still hit, just a bit less often. Of course if your accuracy is well below the accuracy cap, you'll hit much less often and many more combos will be lost. Accuracy is exactly like every other stat in the game that either acts as a modifier on an RNG value, or directly affects a particular aspect of your character.

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It's considered a binary stat because, for every class, it's the highest weight stat if you're below the cap and worth absolutely nothing when you're above the cap.

No other stat has that kind of divide. They may change weights, and some do have breakpoints (usually skill/spell speed when they allow you to fit an extra ability/spell within a cooldown), but nothing else goes from being your best stat to your worst stat when you reach a certain value.

I think what needs to happen with Parry is upgrading what Parry actually does.

What Parry does right now: "Affects the rate at which you parry attacks with your weapon. The higher the value, the higher the frequency with which you will parry an attack."

What needs to happen to Parry: "Affects the rate and the magnitude in which you parry attacks with your weapon. The higher the value, the higher the frequency with which you will parry an attack and the greater the amount of damage you will parry."

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Originally Posted by Ibi

No other stat has that kind of divide. They may change weights, and some do have breakpoints (usually skill/spell speed when they allow you to fit an extra ability/spell within a cooldown), but nothing else goes from being your best stat to your worst stat when you reach a certain value.

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So, instead of offering to remove the stat, why don't we do something about Accuracy after you cap on a target? Not really responding to this comment directly but more like using it as a spring board to spark discussion in a different way.

IE - "you see a hole in your opponent's armour that you try to exploit" and since you have more accuracy, you're more proficient with your weapon and can exploit said weakness. I just used a long winded example to say "The player gains a crit % increase based on how much more accuracy they have over the necessary cap on the target".

Might not necessarily be Crit that increases, but something that gives a bonus to Accuracy once you each that hit threshold required would probably stem a lot of complaints about accuracy. (This has probably been suggested in the past but figured I'd bring it up again anyway)

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

So, instead of offering to remove the stat, why don't we do something about Accuracy after you cap on a target? Not really responding to this comment directly but more like using it as a spring board to spark discussion in a different way.

IE - "you see a hole in your opponent's armour that you try to exploit" and since you have more accuracy, you're more proficient with your weapon and can exploit said weakness. I just used a long winded example to say "The player gains a crit % increase based on how much more accuracy they have over the necessary cap on the target".

Might not necessarily be Crit that increases, but something that gives a bonus to Accuracy once you each that hit threshold required would probably stem a lot of complaints about accuracy. (This has probably been suggested in the past but figured I'd bring it up again anyway)

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Nice idea, applying the excess accuray to somethi8ng else. In your example it was Crit, so bonus accuracy allows you to do more damage. The problem there is that someone will math it out and say either crit is still better, or Accuracy is the bees knees, stack it to the sky.

What if, instead the increased accuracy applied to Parry? You're so accurate with your weapon that not only can you strike unerringly, but you have the ability to parry more effectively. Or alternately, that extra accuracy makes you more efficient with your strike, and reduces the TP or MP cost of the skill you're using.

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Originally Posted by Ibi

It's considered a binary stat because, for every class, it's the highest weight stat if you're below the cap and worth absolutely nothing when you're above the cap.

No other stat has that kind of divide. They may change weights, and some do have breakpoints (usually skill/spell speed when they allow you to fit an extra ability/spell within a cooldown), but nothing else goes from being your best stat to your worst stat when you reach a certain value.

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TY for the explanation of the term. The OP makes statements saying that in effect you can't hit unless you cap accuracy, which is clearly wrong, and then I see the word binary and I immediately think that someone might be suggesting that Accuracy is an on/oof all or nothing stat. Obviously it's not, and I appreciate your explanation, I don't know that I personally would have called them binary stats, but I understand why that term is used because unlike, say, STR, there is no benefit to exceeding the cap limit.

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Originally Posted by Ibi

77*22.030 + 934*1.0 + 1194*1.0 + 654*0.303 + 600*0.378 + 662*0.277 = 4432.6

Removing secondaries:

77*22.030 + 934*1.0 + 1194*1.0 = 3824.3

3824.3 / 4432.6 = 0.862, or 86.2%

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Well, my math for drg comes up to a little over 10%. I guess weapon damage overshadowing everything throws the "30%" idea out the window.

One thing I did different is subtract the base lv60 stats and just removed weight of secondaries from gear. If I do that with your numbers it's only 8.5% instead of 14%

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

I think what needs to happen with Parry is upgrading what Parry actually does.

What Parry does right now: "Affects the rate at which you parry attacks with your weapon. The higher the value, the higher the frequency with which you will parry an attack."

What needs to happen to Parry: "Affects the rate and the magnitude in which you parry attacks with your weapon. The higher the value, the higher the frequency with which you will parry an attack and the greater the amount of damage you will parry."

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thats what it used to do and SE thought it was overpowered.

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Originally Posted by Ragology

DC universe online went with % based stat increases at the beginning. They ended up having to give enemie attacks an "armor piercing" effect since the defense stats trivialized content. People then complained what's the point of raising stats if the mobs are just gonna armor pierce proportionally anyway.

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Straight up! whats the point of having 23k hp or doing 10k point of damage if it only still take off the same % of a bossed health... the numbers are getting ridiculous, time to re-adjust them, this is gonna end up like wow with 100k dmg hits coming from starting skill...lol lol lol lol

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Well, my math for drg comes up to a little over 10%. I guess weapon damage overshadowing everything throws the "30%" idea out the window.

One thing I did different is subtract the base lv60 stats and just removed weight of secondaries from gear. If I do that with your numbers it's only 8.5% instead of 14%

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That's certainly a better way of looking at it, since you do still have a base amount of the secondaries. In fact, at our current item levels, your base stats still provide more of your secondaries than your equipment does.

Including the base stats, we're looking at:

77*22.030 + 934*1.0 + 1194*1.0 + 218*0.303 + 354*0.378 + 354*0.277 = 4122.2

4122.2 / 4432.6 = 0.930, or 93%

So a 7% drop off if we completely ignore the contribution of secondary stats from equipment.

The general conclusion is pretty clear regardless of the methodology: secondary stats have such a minimal impact that the effect of choosing any one piece of equipment over another is almost negligible.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Nice idea, applying the excess accuray to somethi8ng else. In your example it was Crit, so bonus accuracy allows you to do more damage. The problem there is that someone will math it out and say either crit is still better, or Accuracy is the bees knees, stack it to the sky.

What if, instead the increased accuracy applied to Parry? You're so accurate with your weapon that not only can you strike unerringly, but you have the ability to parry more effectively. Or alternately, that extra accuracy makes you more efficient with your strike, and reduces the TP or MP cost of the skill you're using.

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Yep, I'm not sure which idea would be implemented but having Accuracy do something post cap would most likely reduce the amount of complaints about it.

It's the biggest DPS increase for you until you cap then it... sits there. Make it do something more and it'll shift the opinion of it more positively. Doesn't matter if it adds Crit but stacking Crit stat is better, any additional accuracy will at least be beneficial now which is the important part.