The cycle of disbanding that keep casuals from doing content

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Originally Posted by BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY

a casual player wouldn't mind waiting until they make it so you can queue alone. a casual player wouldn't mind trying the instance once per week and maybe it taking 1 or more months to complete.

don't get me wrong, i am not trying to say anything bad. but 9/10 casual players are always behind the rest by like 1~6months.

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Or in my case, more than a year (still haven't cleared any Coil turns)... but that's because I couldn't care less.

You really shouldn't generalize the casual player base like that though. Just because they're casual, it doesn't mean they don't want to see content at around the same pace if they can. Like in the case of the OP, at least there's effort being made, instead of just crying for nerfs or instant DF gratification. The only thing that he's lacking is the understanding of how endgame raiding can be designed. That being the devs can make things exclusive in the sense that you need to commit to static groups and schedule around that... or they can make it as easily accessible as possible (such as DF). In this case, it's both but with a temporary gate to it.

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Originally Posted by BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY

yeah. i've seen these ideas around. and would LOVE for something like that. i myself am not in the least bit skilled. and will always wait for end-game content to be outclassed and nerfed. but that's what a casual player does... wait and take things nice n slow n easy.


can't get to the final coil because players only want experience for the second coil? then wait till you can queue it alone. sure it's going to take more time. and it will be hard to get in with a decent group. but at that point in time you are in the same boat with just about everyone else in the queue. and if you keep trying it, but can't clear it. eventually you will have the experience you need to put an ad in the Party Finder for other experienced players.

casual players shouldn't care about how much time something takes.

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Seems like you understand the latter part of what I said above already :)

See guys? This is why WoW don't "really" have issues like this, they pretty much a put a casual version of the raid for people to do and a hardcore version for the best gear. win win both casuals and hardcores are happy. With WoW they put gear in the casual one but it isn't as good as the one you would get from the ultra hard mode version of it. Doesn't leave anyone out and lets everyone enjoy said content in some form. SE needs to learn this, you shouldn't try cater to different groups of people but alter said content for different people.

They say coil is made for the hardcores, ok i get that now then you have the other content which people say is for casual, lets compare the 2. Who actually has more content to do? You have to remember even if you are hardcore you are still doing casual content+hardcore content meaning getting more than what others get. What this leads to is people finding it unfair they are unable to do the content due to it being too hardcore. I have said countless times SE really needs to make a casual version of coil and a hardcore version to cater to all audiences and not just one because it leads to this. Give the hardcores the better gear and the casual one not as great so for example, casual coil gives 130 and hardcore coil gives 135 for gear and 140 weapon. This will still be something what hardcore raiders can aim for and no one would really be left out. WoW learned from its previous mistakes (kinda), SE on the over hand are very stubborn. They think they are doing what's right but they are not.

Some people say "oh create your own static!" Makes sense but i have tried already didn't work out because no one wants to do coil around the time i and other people are available. Everyone pays the same subscription cost but in theory hardcores are the ones who actually get more content of the game than casuals.

When you are casual all it means is you can't dedicated as much time as someone who is hardcore and take the game more slowly and enjoy the game for what it is for, BUT this doesn't mean they won't want to do coil for example and SE needs to learn this. Also SE really need to figure out how to nerf properly, adding Echo on coil doesn't nerf it all it does is make you stronger thats it. Nerfing would make it easier for the person but from look of things its not working.

You rarely see SE say "We made these dungeons for the CASUAL players" but instead say "We make this new content to bring new stuff for the PLAYERS" You see this? It means they dont just make it for casuals but everyone.

Well, the real problem is that for many people that have already cleared that content and, as such, have no need to run it again, it's just more trouble than it's worth to join groups that likely won't make it ( or it's worth 10's of millions of gil; depends on who you ask). You can't really fault people for trying to enjoy what time they have playing the game. At the end of the day, these "no noobs wanted" farm parties and the OP are after the same thing: a sense of progress. There's just not much incentive to help random people struggling with old content.

Relating experience here:

Yesterday at 9 pm I found a learning party for T6. I entered, it had 4 people there. At 10h30 pm the group was complete. I sent on party chat "remember that this is a learning group guys. Don't rage quit after a couple of wipes because we'll probably wipe a dozen or so times.". 3 people left after I said that, the 2 tanks and the other healer.

After another half hour, one of the DPS said he could be tank, and that he was experienced in solo tanking Rafflesia, as he is used to doing it with 1 tank, 1 heal and 6 DPS... and maybe that was the only way, cuz the chances of us getting another tank were slim. I said I didn't think I was geared enough for that (I'm ilvl 96), but he said that, as we're going with 2 heals that MIGHT compensate. Another 20 mins or so (it was almost midnight now) and we're finally off, 3 hours after I joined party (and god knows how much time the party was there before I joined). The other healer started bitching about how solo tanking Rafflesia is impossible, and one of the DPS said "omg 100 sold...".

First try, we got Rafflesia to 50% before wiping. The tank says "OK, the healers know their stuff but are not geared enough for that maybe." Upon saying that, 2 DPS and the bitching healer left. The party lead decided to call it quits, and we disbanded.

And so the soap opera keeps going on...

So, what's your next move now? Be sure to befriend the DPS who was willing to tank. You've found at least 1 person willing to put in effort. Over the next few weeks, continue doing so. Keep inviting those you've gathered as friends back to play with you in learning runs. A month or 2 down the road, you'll practically have a static to go with after filtering out a select group of competent and willing players.

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Originally Posted by MrSigy

I still enjoy t5, I just do not enjoy wiping on the same thing without progression.

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This puts it plainly enough for me. If there is no progression in the group then they aren't learning. Could lead to why people leave after 3 or so wipes. Wiping is expected in learning/prog groups, but if said group keeps wiping at blighted because they haven't learned to stop everything at 69/68% to avoid a one shot, then time is being wasted. I am currently looking for a static as I would like to progress in SCoB. I am in europe so my times are a little off from the NA ones, so that makes it a bit more of a challenge for me. Hit me up anytime!

I'm one of those filthy casuals. Took me forever to get into Turn 1 - 5 because of how things were with being someone who can't dedicate hours each night to do one thing for hours. The lock outs really hurt, hinders the few people I now who would gladly help and teach me with a party to clear or farm but can't because they need the items. I know "this game isn't for you then" ..nope it's for me, just not that part of the game. Rest..I'm fine with.

But, I understand that this is for hardcore or more dedicated people who have lots of time and enjoy playing one or two jobs. There's so much casual content out there..I don't mind stepping back a bit and let the hardcore guys get their fill in.

Though it does make it difficult to progress when the mechanics are one shots mixed with a learning party or a party with someone who has ilv110 gear but still can't..dodge...dive bombs. The only thing a casual can hope for is that the progression of the rest of the casuals meets your standards. That over time majority of people learn how to do the fights properly so it can be taken on a few times with a duty finder or party finder.

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Originally Posted by Kyri

Made worse by the fact no ones going to help you beat it because they would rather sell you the win for a ridiculous price. I do wish SE would find a way to help fix that or make win selling a suspendable offense

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This is a silly argument. People who sell wins, even if they stopped selling wins, do you think they'd suddenly start carrying random strangers for free? Of course not, they'd either stop doing the fights at all, or do them with their group alone.

People that sell wins are still fine with helping friends pass content - but why should they help YOU, a complete stranger? Out of the goodness of their hearts? Even folks that don't sell wins generally aren't so cheritable. Everyone has things they want to get done in the game, and a limited amount of time to do those things. Occasionally, you'll luck into someone who, on a whim, decides to help someone out, but that's not something you can or should count on.

If SE were to bring the banhammer down on folks selling wins tomorrow, it wouldn't bring you your win one second faster.

do you not have a FC? mine has about 7 groups at various stages in coil. the best way to get stuff done in an mmo is to get out and meet people. it's a fundamental aspect of the genre, you can't do things alone.

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Originally Posted by Remus

See guys? This is why WoW don't "really" have issues like this, they pretty much a put a casual version of the raid for people to do and a hardcore version for the best gear. win win both casuals and hardcores are happy.

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Wouldn't be that a nice solution?

A casual version of coil for the casuals

AND, on the other side

A coil like difficult version of CT for the others.

More content for everybody.