The Decline of FFXI: Forums, Gameplay and Nostalgia

[Anewie]

What did I just read...?

I think that accusing Square Enix of having evil intentions for creating the forums is wrong. The odds are high that they took notice of all the fan made forums (BG, Wiki, Killing Ifrit, Alla, etc) and realized that such a strong community base for FFXI is strongly desired by the fans.

We should also take note that several suggestions are stupid. And to be fair, Square Enix representatives have come into a handful of topics and explained that while yes, the development team thought it was a fascinating idea, they don't have the man power/time/money/resources to pull it off. Or, if they did like it and did have all the resources they needed, the idea would be considered and possibly added at a later date.

I found it amusing that you talked so sweetly of FFXI in its younger years as if it had been perfectly constructed. As if there was no competition and everything was the perfect flare of challenge. Do some more digging around here and other forums and you'll discover how silly it is to think that the game had been perfect then and pointless now.

Do you think that pop NMs are a pain? Consider the Kings then. And it wasn't as if Kirin -- one of the few popped NMs of the old era -- could have more than one pop up at once. (Not to mention that Kirin took hours to kill while popped NMs in Abyssea take a few minutes.) The difference between then and now is that now we control when our Notorious Monsters are up and have much more incentive to group up and help each other out. Odds are nobody wanted to group up to kill Fafnir, but people don't mind helping a group kill their popped Wherwetrice faster so that they can pop their own.

The difference is that today the game is a game and no longer a second job.

Reading comprehention isn't your strong point I'm guessing.

The post was less about how better ffxi then was than now, and more about how the then, there was much more choice and variety. When theres more choice and variety, it makes the flaws much LESS apparent.

Karbuncle made an excellent point however, the game is in a transition period. The problem I have with this is, ever since abyssea came out. The only new content they have added is things that are in relation to abyssea. Now it's been 7 months and again voidwatch, is nothing more than abyssea v2. You can argue the abyssites and various changes will make a signifcant difference, but the fact is, its abyssea related-ish.

Most people want something new. Waiting a year and a half for something NEW is totally unreasonable. From the roadmap, it appear the soonest we will get something totally new is The last stand. FFXIV is a new game so it's a bad example but they are getting new stuff. We are just getting scaled up (or down) abyssea related content. Also, from the description, its just a single NM per battle. So, in all, its less content than an abyssea zone but it could be.. harder.. Right?

I'm not one of those people who is complaining about mob difficulty. Game mechanics are too recognizeable now. What I think people want, is something new of something old. Dont want bot wars and drama, but something that resembles some form and scale of the original endgame event would be nice. Even if that is not the case, which I think it is...

What people don't want? More abyssea and more abyssea TYPE content. People are less upset by the fact that they didnt add new content, as the fact that it SOUNDS like they are planning.. New abyssea type stuff. Weakness procs.. Stones.. abyssites...That npc that issues stones... And the mobs looks exactly the same minus a few. It really reeks of Abyssea-related content, and there is ENOUGH stuff like that. Save the update till you come up with something more interesting..


People are sick sick sick sick sick, of VNMs, Abyssea, magian trials. Is that saying it sucks and isn't fun? Absolutley not. And adding trials for dumb sh*t like king gears is insulting.

OH HAY, WE WONT GIVE U NEW CONTENT BUT... WE'LL MAKE IT WORTH YOUR WHILE TO DO THE OLD STUFF AGAIN! TEE HEE.

Because that makes sense. That specifically the reason why people wanted an abyssea type event so bad, because of the old stuff. Keep in mind, they didn't make the old stuff any easier to do. They just increased our level, instanced some of the content and threw in trials. The only issue is, most of us already been there done that, and now that we're freakin 15 levels higher, now its even easier. More mindless and almost as pointless, because i doubt augments on zenith slacks will be so amazing, ill just have to use them over goetie or adoios legs+2. And the people who didn't get their black belts and kill any nq/hq kings, let alone get into a ls that does ks99... well, they are just as incapable as they ever were. Theyre not gonna do it anymore than they did before. Know what theyre gonna do? Complain.

And if you veiwed the game as a job, that only highlights your flaws, not the games. The game was designed a certain way for a reason. The game wasn't flawed, the player bases assumptions about how it should be played were. It was never a second job. It was simply a game that required more time and focus to see the the best rewards than most mmos. Just because you weren't having fun reaching for your goals, doesn't mean others werent. It's not the companys fault you didn't have the time to accomplish things as fast as you wanted too. Neither did i or anyone else. You play when you can, if you want too, and if you can't finish something, log in when you can. Most all content had this option available to you.

What you wanted was to complete an ultimate weapon in a week, with just yourself and another person. FFXI, imo, thats not how it should work. There are plenty of mmos for people who like finishing things quick and like having the best stuff handed to them. FFIX is not a solo player game and the best should always come from time, focus, dedication. Considering its a video game, it's hardley work.

[Akujima]

What you wanted was to complete an ultimate weapon in a week, with just yourself and another person. FFXI, imo, thats not how it should work. There are plenty of mmos for people who like finishing things quick and like having the best stuff handed to them. FFIX is not a solo player game and the best should always come from time, focus, dedication. Considering its a video game, it's hardley work.

Agree. I mean isn't that the whole idea of the weapon being ultimate? Because it took a crap load of questing/battling to get it, that's why. (But personally I think they overdid it a little with it taking nearly a year to get relics. Something like 3~ months seems better... But a week? Jeez...)

I vote for less of the spoon fed attitude, get in some difficulty and challenge. And I'm not talking about gear and cool items, all the treasure whoring is great and all, but I'm talking about difficult and strategic battles. Battles that make you think on your feet, and make you attempt the boss fight 2~3 times even with the best gear. I love how in depth FFXI's battle system was when it first came out... Trick Attack... Skillchains... Magic Bursts... It was just so cool... I loved lower levels so much simply because of that.

More dynamic game play please!

[Anewie]

Agree. I mean isn't that the whole idea of the weapon being ultimate? Because it took a crap load of questing/battling to get it, that's why. (But personally I think they overdid it a little with it taking nearly a year to get relics. Something like 3~ months seems better... But a week? Jeez...)

I vote for less of the spoon fed attitude, get in some difficulty and challenge. And I'm not talking about gear and cool items, all the treasure whoring is great and all, but I'm talking about difficult and strategic battles. Battles that make you think on your feet, and make you attempt the boss fight 2~3 times even with the best gear. I love how in depth FFXI's battle system was when it first came out... Trick Attack... Skillchains... Magic Bursts... It was just so cool... I loved lower levels so much simply because of that.

More dynamic game play please!

I agree. I felt bad for my friend. He spent years getting aegis and I freakin shot through ochain like nobodies business and it is so gamebreaking o.o. I mean it rly is an AMAZING shield. It makes aegis laughable.

It's is by far, imo, the best ultimate weapon in ffxi. It's more useful than yagrush, ghorn and aegis. It makes pld, literally unkillable. The problem is, game atm makes pld useless. If pld was the main tank again, It would be stunning for a group or linkshell.

[Akujima]

I agree. I felt bad for my friend. He spent years getting aegis and I freakin shot through ochain like nobodies business and it is so gamebreaking o.o. I mean it rly is an AMAZING shield. It makes aegis laughable. And not sarah palin laughable. I'm talkin someone lonely enough to stalk freakin debbie gibson laughable.

It's is by far, imo, the best ultimate weapon in ffxi. It's more useful than yagrush, ghorn and aegis. It makes pld, literally unkillable. The problem is, game atm makes pld useless. If pld was the main tank again, It would be stunning for a group or linkshell.

Ochain sounds pretty broken. But making PLD unkillable... Hmm~ Sounds like another decrease in the difficulty level. But who knows, maybe they'll get the picture with FFXIV and realize that dynamic creative content is the only way to go. We need more heart in our games... For serious.

PS. Need a 2nd husband? We can reminisce about the good ole days, when Square's were Soft, play Secret of Mana together and drop our controllers in awe when Aeris died in... wait. It just hit me. After all these years, she died... NoooooooOOOOooOOO!!!!...

[Anewie]

Ochain sounds pretty broken. But making PLD unkillable... Hmm~ Sounds like another decrease in the difficulty level. But who knows, maybe they'll get the picture with FFXIV and realize that dynamic creative content is the only way to go. We need more heart in our games... For serious.

PS. Need a 2nd husband? We can reminisce about the good ole days, when Square's were Soft, play Secret of Mana together and drop our controllers in awe when Aeris died in... wait. It just hit me. After all these years, she died... NoooooooOOOOooOOO!!!!...

I cried when that happened! So shocking. I was pissed too cause was a main party member too>< I had to lvl someone else up in her place >.>.

[Meyi]

Reading comprehention isn't your strong point I'm guessing.

The post was less about how better ffxi then was than now, and more about how the then, there was much more choice and variety. When theres more choice and variety, it makes the flaws much LESS apparent.

I've been told that a lot, unfortunately.

The first post (which was the only post I was responding to), first talked about Dragoons and different colored wyverns, then about the forums and SE not listening to its players, to Abyssea is easy, to wanting the game to be fun again. I've yet to find "choice and variety" in the first post.

And if you veiwed the game as a job, that only highlights your flaws, not the games. The game was designed a certain way for a reason. The game wasn't flawed, the player bases assumptions about how it should be played were. It was never a second job. It was simply a game that required more time and focus to see the the best rewards than most mmos. Just because you weren't having fun reaching for your goals, doesn't mean others werent. It's not the companys fault you didn't have the time to accomplish things as fast as you wanted too. Neither did i or anyone else. You play when you can, if you want too, and if you can't finish something, log in when you can. Most all content had this option available to you.

What you wanted was to complete an ultimate weapon in a week, with just yourself and another person. FFXI, imo, thats not how it should work. There are plenty of mmos for people who like finishing things quick and like having the best stuff handed to them. FFIX is not a solo player game and the best should always come from time, focus, dedication. Considering its a video game, it's hardley work.

First I would like to point out that you are making a lot of poor assumptions about me. Never once did I expect things to ever be handed to me. Never once did I expect end game at 75 to be completed with a duo.

Because I highly disagreed with End game shells and their rules, and because I found the events rather depressing and boring rather than enjoyable, I did not do the events. I never complained how people who did these events got the items because they put forth the effort, and therefore, they deserved the gear. That's great for them. But such an event was not an event for me. Instead I did other things in the game that I found enjoyable because it's that, a game.

I'm going to break down the previous quote and respond to it.

And if you veiwed the game as a job, that only highlights your flaws, not the games. (...) It was simply a game that required more time and focus to see the the best rewards than most mmos.

The reason the game felt like a job was because it required players to log in at odd hours for a desired item because the monster popped at those hours. I remember setting my alarm to wake up at 3 in the morning to help a friend get her YinYang Robe. After that I realized no video game is worth losing sleep over. Unfortunately Shikigami popped every 21 hours and in order to not lose the Time of Death, someone would at least have to go watch for it. Eventually yes, it would come back into North American time, but, when it did, the Time of Death would again be unknown.

The same applied to Land Kings.

So yes, while the game itself did not require anyone to play at odd hours -- because nothing in the game is a necessity -- the monsters did have terrible hours. That was a problem with the game itself, not the players. And while I appreciate the attempt to make the world alive and interlinking the timezones together by making monsters pop throughout the day, I feel it caused more harm than good. From a roleplaying perspective, it was awesome. From a player wanting to complete a character, it was terrible.

Just because you weren't having fun reaching for your goals, doesn't mean others werent. It's not the companys fault you didn't have the time to accomplish things as fast as you wanted too.

I can't name many people who enjoyed having a long respawn notorious monster be outclaimed from under them. Nor do I know of anyone who enjoyed having to kill a monster over a hundred times to see a drop.

And in a way, yes, the company could have stepped up and helped relieve these monsters in some way. I am a big fan of the pop system. But even then, a shorter respawn timer would have sufficed as well. Or a higher drop rate.

What you wanted was to complete an ultimate weapon in a week, with just yourself and another person.

Couldn't be any farther from the truth.

What I wanted was an ability to continuously put effort into a goal and eventually reach it. I despise luck and prefer hard work. This is why I am such a fan of Magians. I can log on whenever, work on it some, and then log out when I need to. Every monster I kill for the trial will count towards the trial, guaranteed. Each monster is one step closer to completing and I enjoy slaying monsters for a better weapon. Whether this process takes a day, a week, or a month, I'm satisfied because I know I'm progressing.

FFXI, imo, thats not how it should work.

You are entitled to your opinion.

There are plenty of mmos for people who like finishing things quick and like having the best stuff handed to them. FFIX is not a solo player game and the best should always come from time, focus, dedication. Considering its a video game, it's hardley work.

I like FFXI because of its world and its storylines. I like FFXI because I can use a controller to play it. I like FFXI because I can communicate with people all over the world and learn new languages.

While I realize it is a MMO and we therefore cannot divorce the multiplayer aspect, I think it's fair to realize that not everyone will have synced time schedules, dedication, or interest.

I know that I personally prefer to solo because I hate asking other people to give up their fun time to help me out. I don't like bothering people. Thankfully Abyssea has been very reward friendly which means I can ask for one item and give the rest to my friends who help me out.

Just because someone wants to solo, or just because someone completes something relatively quick does not mean that person lacks time, focus, or dedication. There is nothing wrong with enjoying a video game. For some of us this means completing things quick. For others, this means spending a copious amount of energy and time. Some people wish to challenge themselves with solo while others wish to not burden their friends. And some people want to do everything in small or large groups. There are players who want access to all content of the game and others who want to prove themselves as more dedicated.

I will end on this note. FFXI use to be like a job because of the hours of the monsters and the duration of the events. Add insult to injury by adding low drop rates to the events which required more repetitions. To add icing on the cake we sprinkle in some competition. Long hours and timed hours were the problem. I think Abyssea has addressed these issues quite nicely.

[Carth]

Just because someone wants to solo, or just because someone completes something relatively quick does not mean that person lacks time, focus, or dedication. There is nothing wrong with enjoying a video game. For some of us this means completing things quick. For others, this means spending a copious amount of energy and time. Some people wish to challenge themselves with solo while others wish to not burden their friends. And some people want to do everything in small or large groups. There are players who want access to all content of the game and others who want to prove themselves as more dedicated.

Finally, someone with some sense in this thread.

[Akujima]

...From a roleplaying perspective, it was awesome. From a player wanting to complete a character, it was terrible.

You do realize this is a role-playing game right?

And in a way, yes, the company could have stepped up and helped relieve these monsters in some way. I am a big fan of the pop system. But even then, a shorter respawn timer would have sufficed as well. Or a higher drop rate.

Yes they could have added multiple items per NM and increased the drop rates a little as well as the respawn timer. But instead they created Abyssea and gave themselves more work because all that old content has now become obsolete to players wanting to "complete a character"

Now they created these forums for us to come up with idea's (apparently) on how to fix all that old content, so we can do the work for them.

Instead of what they should have done, which is create a new expansion altogether and fix current issues with the game, as opposed to just sweeping them under the rug.

What I wanted was an ability to continuously put effort into a goal and eventually reach it. I despise luck and prefer hard work. This is why I am such a fan of Magians. I can log on whenever, work on it some, and then log out when I need to. Every monster I kill for the trial will count towards the trial, guaranteed. Each monster is one step closer to completing and I enjoy slaying monsters for a better weapon. Whether this process takes a day, a week, or a month, I'm satisfied because I know I'm progressing.

So what I see here, is that you're not OK with waking up at 3 AM to go to work, but you are OK with doing repetitive simple tasks all day long at work.

The whole idea of past NM's and the items they dropped was to /check someone and say "Oh wow that guy/girl got lucky with that drop". And that's why some of those items were pretty awesome in stats and/or looks. What started happening, is that people complained that they couldn't get their hands on such and such an item, and wanted uber items for themselves, without the "luck" factor.

The problem is, people like this opt for absolutely EVERYTHING being changed and having ZERO "luck" in the game, when in reality these things CAN coexist. You CAN have NM's that are based on luck, that give equally good and different gear, than the ones based on pure progression.

Actually that was already there. The CoP rings were the best in the game, and all you had to do was finish CoP to get one. The ZM earrings were pretty good actually, all you had to do was finish ZM. There's a laundry list of items that were on par with luck NM drops, that came from progression based scenarios. The problem is, they simply didn't add more of the progression based items.

I will end on this note. FFXI use to be like a job because of the hours of the monsters and the duration of the events. Add insult to injury by adding low drop rates to the events which required more repetitions. To add icing on the cake we sprinkle in some competition. Long hours and timed hours were the problem. I think Abyssea has addressed these issues quite nicely.

Like I said above. Instead of sweeping stuff under the rug (like the old content), fix current issues and add more depth and dynamics.

But now we have Abyssea, which actually is just a scaled down model of the past system that you disliked. Now instead you have HOARDS of competition, AND for certain Empyrean weapon, you still have to compete for timed spawns to get Key Items. Not to mention you are in an area with a time LIMIT to boot!

So waiting to claim Gukumatz AS A SOLO/DUO for a Sobek pop, and then not being able to claim because of massive amounts of LS competition, having to be booted out of Abyssea or go use up more stones, more time, run back and forth re-get buffs, atma, etc, etc... How is that LESS annoying?

Anyways... I used to like Abyssea myself, but then once I got to Shinryu in less than 2 weeks after Hero's came out, I saw the real truth behind it.

[Meyi]

You do realize this is a role-playing game right?

Yes I do, but it's not a single player role-playing game. It's a game that has no pause button. People generally play to accomplish some goal. When the environment inhibits these goals from being attempted, that's when players feel frustration.

Yes they could have added multiple items per NM and increased the drop rates a little as well as the respawn timer. But instead they created Abyssea and gave themselves more work because all that old content has now become obsolete to players wanting to "complete a character"

Now they created these forums for us to come up with idea's (apparently) on how to fix all that old content, so we can do the work for them.

Instead of what they should have done, which is create a new expansion altogether and fix current issues with the game, as opposed to just sweeping them under the rug.

Allow me to suggest reading through these forums some more. There are many suggestions posted by fellow players that have been addressed by Square Enix. It seems the most common issue is lack of resources on the developers' behalf. Not that they don't want to, just that they don't have the funds or manpower.

So what I see here, is that you're not ok with waking up at 3 AM to go to work, but you are ok with doing repetitive simple tasks all day long at work.

... What...? I never said anything about work. I was talking about waking myself up, out of a sound sleep, to get on a video game to help kill a monster and then go back to bed for school. Work = money, and money is necessary to live. Video games aren't. If I had to wake up at 3 AM for a job I would.

That sentence is utterly baffling.

The whole idea of past NM's and the items they dropped was to /check someone and say "Oh wow that guy/girl got lucky with that drop". And that's why some of those items were pretty awesome in stats and/or looks. What started happening, is that people complained that they couldn't get their hands on such and such an item, and wanted uber items for themselves, without the "luck" factor.

The problem is, people like this opt for absolutely EVERYTHING being changed and having ZERO "luck" in the game, when in reality these things CAN coexist. You CAN have NM's that are based on luck, that give equally good and different gear, than the ones based on pure progression.

Sounds like Abyssea monsters to me. You can proc yellow !! for higher seal/gem drop, but then again, you may only end up with one seal/gem. Or, even without yellow !!, you can luck out and get decent seal/gem drop without yellow proc.

If there were armors with equal stats that were luck based and progression based (perhaps different .dats), then I wouldn't mind one bit. I don't care if people want to play with luck; it's their game too and they're free to play how they want. However, I also enjoy progression and would be disappointed if the hard work progression item was inferior to the luck item.

But now we have Abyssea, which actually is just a scaled down model of the past system that you disliked. Now instead you have HOARDS of competition, AND for certain Empyrean weapon, you still have to compete for timed spawns to get Key Items. Not to mention you are in an area with a time LIMIT to boot!

So waiting to claim Gukumatz AS A SOLO/DUO for a Sobek pop, and then not being able to claim because of massive amounts of LS competition, having to be booted out of Abyssea or go use up more stones, more time, run back and forth re-get buffs, atma, etc, etc... How is that LESS annoying?

Anyways... I used to like Abyssea myself, but then once I got to Shinryu in less than 2 weeks after Hero's came out, I saw the real truth behind it.

I think competition now is the best it's ever been. The numbers are on par with the past, but, people are more willing to cooperate now. We take turns popping monsters or we team up to help each other out. And this happens at Sobek, too. While my linkshell was farming Sobek for all of our +2 pants, we would invite people there for the emp. weapon skins and let them take them.

I admit that it's not any less annoying. I'm frustrated by the hordes of players at +2 NMs. Luckily for me I have a new linkshell that's very supportive. When I'm frustrated they'll help me take my mind off of my monster by asking me to come help them with seals. And when we're finished with their seals, we'll go back to my monster and try again. And I must add that I don't enjoy having to leave the zone/get more stones/rebuff either. But, it's more enjoyable to have a respawn timer of 15 minutes than 21~24 hours.

Abyssea is not perfect. It's just an event were previous issues have been somewhat corrected.

[Akujima]

Abyssea is not perfect. It's just an event were previous issues have been somewhat corrected.

I read your whole post (saying this because I've been accused before of just skimming over others posts), the whole waking up for work analogy just means this: We do simple repetitive tasks at work all day, and Magian trials as well as Abyssea farming just seems like work for some people, but I guess you're not one of them.

Anyways, I'm not trying to ridicule anyone for liking Abyssea. All I'm asking for is a difficulty increase and dynamic depth to battle tactics and strategies. But IMO they are making the game a little TOO easy, and a little TOO simple. "Farming" seals was not my idea of endgame content.

If the battles were actually difficult and made me use my brain in order to defeat the enemy, then yea I'd still be playing. Pre-Endgame 75, even doing an EXP PT you had to think of tactics and strategies depending on where your PT camped at, and what jobs you had.

You know what pissed me off? The counter for Utsusemi. And it all happened because whiney players who subbed /NIN (It wasn't even their MAIN job for crying out loud) complained that "Boohoo, counting shadows is so annoying!"

NIN pre-endgame 75 was a very, very FUN job. You had to focus and time your nukes and enfeeble ninjutsu correctly. You had to WATCH your enemy carefully to determine when you would cast your next Utsusemi. Timing was key. It was FREAKEN fun to count those shadows, and "Pro Ninja's" were the ones who could do that, and at the same time keep hate, WS, SC and MB.

But overnight, as soon as the shadow counter was added, NIN went from being a cool IN DEPTH DYNAMIC JOB, to being a cakewalk @$$ wipe job, and stole all the fun out it.

The example given of a NIN pre-endgame 75, is EXACTLY what I'm talking about in regards to "IN DEPTH, DYNAMIC, STRATEGIC, GAMEPLAY"

God Dang!!! my posts are so good.

(yea yea, lots of caps because I really feel strongly about this topic)