Please Rework "FULL BREAK'S" effectiveness + other GA ws's like it DEV TEAM /wave

[noodles355]

In terms of DD, warrior got Blood Rage, Critical Attack Bonus II, Ukko's Fury and Fell Cleave. Blood Rage and Critical Attack Bonus traits provide a significant increase to your damage. As do the two weapon skills.

In comparison, Samurai got Sengikori, Skillchain Bonus and Tachi: Fudo. Out of which only the latter increases it's damage significantly (due to the lack of skillchains performed).

[Zyeriis]

Rambus, I know it's irrelevant, but he asked. I wasn't the one who brought it up but I agree that WAR hardly needs a buff.

Well stuff that we actually get use out of ><

Warrior got...
78 Critical Attack Bonus
80 Shield Mastery
80 Shield Defense Bonus
81 Resist Virus V
84 Fencer IV
86 Defense Bonus II
90 Critical Attack Bonus II
77 Restraint
87 Blood Rage

I'd say we got 5 "useful" things from that list. The stuff in orange is donkey fodder.

Now go do that with what the other jobs got. Don't forget to calculate in that Samurai got bsed even more when they gave sekka to sub job levels.

Samurai gets 2, very weak boosts (skillchain dmg+).
Warrior gets 5 boosts, most of which are excellent.
Dragoon gets 3-4 boosts (depending on whether you view crit. def. + as good), most of which are excellent (it's a close second).
Dark Knight gets 2 boosts.
Ranger got 5 decent boosts but it's RNG and ranged attacks take way too much time.

[kingfury]

What we got was overall stronger than what most other DDs got. We got blood rage for example, which is much better than anything drk got, even though drk needed buffs way more than war did.

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I'd say we were stronger all along, but that'd be my bias opinion ^^

I think the next update will usher in even more power to WARs regardless of if we get any new abilities or not since we'll have more gear to choose from, new Merit points to plug in, and new Weapons and such. I'm not sure how other Jobs that are feeling this power distinction in reference to WAR will fair in the coming updates leading up to 99, but strength and powerful JA's will continue to set us apart.

[kingfury]

Rambus, I know it's irrelevant, but he asked. I wasn't the one who brought it up but I agree that WAR hardly needs a buff.
Now go do that with what the other jobs got. Don't forget to calculate in that Samurai got bsed even more when they gave sekka to sub job levels.
Samurai gets 2, very weak boosts (skillchain dmg+).
Warrior gets 5 boosts, most of which are excellent.
Dragoon gets 3-4 boosts (depending on whether you view crit. def. + as good), most of which are excellent (it's a close second).
Dark Knight gets 2 boosts.
Ranger got 5 decent boosts but it's RNG and ranged attacks take way too much time.

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Okay, Fair enough. I agree with you guys then that the other DD jobs could use a few more JA's and JT's to further enhance their duties as DD's.

Now in terms of WS's, would it really insult other jobs if these Break ws's were adjusted? Especially since it's a WS that has shared effects for party members. Actually, shouldn't we be saying Blood Rage should be considered a "Shared" JA since other DD's in the party gain the same benefits?

[Fiarlia]

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Okay, Fair enough. I agree with you guys then that the other DD jobs could use a few more JA's and JT's to further enhance their duties as DD's.

Now in terms of WS's, would it really insult other jobs if these Break ws's were adjusted?

It's not a matter of insulting other jobs. It's a matter of it being incredibly unlikely that they could be buffed without causing an imbalance of some kind.

For a few quick examples, I'll reiterate what others have said, though in a different manner.

1) Boost the damage done by the Weaponskills without touching the "break" effects. This isn't a good idea, there's already good WS's that a WAR has access to, and I'm not even talking about Ukko's. There's plenty of options, rendering this a fairly poor choice. If they did this, they'd have to revamp all the older WS's that other jobs get, or it'll fall back to the "WAR or GTFO" mentality in the lower levels until the various jobs start gaining access to the better WS's you get nearer end-level. If they do buff all the other WS's to be able to compete, then what's the point? You're supposed to get more powerful as you level up, not get end-game-calibur WS's right off the bat. Not to mention it'd render (offensive) magic even more useless unless it too got a boost. Regardless of how it's handled, it would create imbalance, either between jobs or in the games workings themselves.

2) Enhance the "Break" effect only. As has been said before, it's generally a better idea to get a monster dead as soon as possible (at least on current mobs - and likely future ones too) rather than waste the 100(+) TP to do a debuff that will (likely) result in marginal gains. Why do I say the gains will be marginal? Because while allowing each DD to do a bit more damage per hit or hit more often or get hit for less (etc) will likely not result in a mob being dead any faster. If it does, it wouldn't by by any extreme amount, and if something does hit the fan, it's probably better to have it being closer to dead than having it debuffed with less people able to hit it (addressing your one-shot scenario). Besides, with the amount of damage that the (good) weaponskills do, the buff would have to be astronomical to make it worth it and even try to come out even with the current tactics. This brings me to a subpoint.

2a) If they buff the "Break" effects without adjusting the mobs, and it's buffed enough to actually be worth using over Ukko's, then every group will have a WAR with it (including outside Abyssea) simply to make things easier and faster. This then results in a return to the point I made in -1- about game/job balance.

2b) If they buff the "Break" effects AND adjust the mobs or add new ones to compensate, these new mobs would likely be impossible to do without a WAR because anybody else will get hit too hard, not hit hard enough, have horrible accuracy and so on and so forth. This would basically be required in order to make the WS's "worthwhile" without making them overpowered. This, again falls back to the point in -1- as it would create an imbalance, though this time it would be worse, not only is a WAR more desirable and better, but every other DD would be completely useless if you did not have one. This also encroaches on the territory of triggering weaknesses in Abyssea, though without the randomness (unless a mob is programmed to have one random buff and only the appropriate Break WS will dispel it or bring it to a reasonable level). While that idea might sound cool, it's been done and would still create an imbalance.

And if you don't understand (part of) the imbalance I'm talking about, it already exists in another form. The current kings of the game are BLM, BLU, MNK, NIN, WAR and WHM because that's all you need to get every proc. Nobody else is "desired." And while I acknowledge it's possible to succeed with other jobs or missing some of the kings I mentioned, you have to acknowledge that I'm right about jobs being discriminated against. If you need convincing, go read the forums, people bitch and complain like crazy about it.

And besides everything else I stated above, I and many others (judging by this thread), would much rather SE spend their time working on new content or fixing things that are more important than trying to figure out how to possibly balance all the changes that would come from any of the suggested fixes, as well as any of the ones that have not been proposed that they could conjure up.

It's nice that you want to change things for the better. But all in all, some things aren't worth it, or aren't realistically possible, or as easy as one would initially imagine. It'd be best to try and "pick your battles," so to speak. That's not to say that every thread needs to be a battle, but try focusing your energies on stuff that's actually important and relevant, or at the very least fairly easy to fix. And if you make a mistake (I assume you didn't think of all the ramifications the changes to the Break WS's would have [other jobs, other WS's, mobs, dependence on WAR and further job segregation to name a few]) and have it pointed out to you, accept it and move on. And just because someone may say something in a way that you find slightly (or vastly) offensive, it doesn't always mean they're trolling or wrong. Especially wrong.

[Tamarsamar]

Actually, shouldn't we be saying Blood Rage should be considered a "Shared" JA since other DD's in the party gain the same benefits?

Sure, why not! Though, I have no idea why any idea why anybody invites Bards, since all they have are "shared spells" anyway . . .

[Fiarlia]

Also, again, let me reiterate that it was great of you to change your sig. Comes across in a much better light and it's no longer irritating and annoying to see after every post. I'm sure a lot of other people appreciate it as well.

Also, on top of that it just looks more cool now.

[Rambus]

2a) If they buff the "Break" effects without adjusting the mobs, and it's buffed enough to actually be worth using over Ukko's, then every group will have a WAR with it (including outside Abyssea) simply to make things easier and faster. This then results in a return to the point I made in -1- about game/job balance.

I have an issue with this, why you think people take thf for zerg in old days? it was more then TH and it allowed you not to relay on Madrigal. same with bringing a drg with for just in case you are not caped your attack vs def.

war was respectable for a long time ( I do not remember what war was like when it was loled at, i was mage back then so i was not aware of everything).

now one might say "oh it hurts DRG use", but what if you do not have a drg?

I do not see the "balance issue" with buffing war enough where it can really make use of stat down ws time to time. if not why make them useless? why have them exist?

I really have to tell you, those brake ws back in the 10's and 20s made HUGE difference, loldrk that was scythe that level, etc.

and for "i wish there was pm so i did not have to make off topic comment, comment"

why do you care about his sig and what is the difference? just because his name looks like a signature over print? i don’t get it

[kingfury]

Also, again, let me reiterate that it was great of you to change your sig. Comes across in a much better light and it's no longer irritating and annoying to see after every post. I'm sure a lot of other people appreciate it as well.
Also, on top of that it just looks more cool now.

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/kneel Thanks to you again for taking a mature approach to explaining the problem from your point of view. ^^ /salute

[Fiarlia]

It's not a point of view. I simply explained it without using the math and tone that some others did, but it makes their statements no less correct or accurate.

And Rambus, well, there's no polite way to explain why I'm not going to bother arguing with you, you're a lost cause and can't grasp how the game works. So I'mma just leave it at "You're wrong."