[dev1010] Spirits

[Krisan]

why not, instead, ask for something in the lines of "Sic" and "Ready" that BST have?

Ask for the ability to choose the spells.

This would be the obvious solution, but at the same time there would also be little point to being able to choose what they cast. The Avatars already can cast a few tiers of magic that the Spirits are capable of.. The Spirits have access to more magic overall, yes, but then that makes the spells the Avatars cast rather pointless. (Why bother with the Avatar which takes longer to summon, if you can cast the same magic and more with the Spirit?)

The fact they're autonomous isn't entirely the problem, it's that they're stupid most of the time, and that they have a ridiculously high perp cost to maintain. (Higher than that of the Avatar's, up to a certain level, which doesn't even make sense.) I'm not honestly sure what would be the ideal solution to them, but I do think lowering the perp cost (or even eliminating it) would be a step in the right direction.. Beyond that I don't know, an attack command so that you can at least choose the target they go after would be a decent improvement if coupled with a lower cost though.

[Korpg]

This would be the obvious solution, but at the same time there would also be little point to being able to choose what they cast. The Avatars already can cast a few tiers of magic that the Spirits are capable of.. The Spirits have access to more magic overall, yes, but then that makes the spells the Avatars cast rather pointless. (Why bother with the Avatar which takes longer to summon, if you can cast the same magic and more with the Spirit?)

You misunderstand. Having an ability to choose the spells would make SMN a least a little more useful in procing yellow. Why you ask? Because Spirits have all spells a BLM (exception, Teir 3 -ga) and WHM (exception, Banishga II) would have. With the ability to find the element weakness of a NM, you can have a SMN help proc yellow along with the BLM, WHM, BRD, and BLU/NIN.

The fact they're autonomous isn't entirely the problem, it's that they're stupid most of the time, and that they have a ridiculously high perp cost to maintain. (Higher than that of the Avatar's, up to a certain level, which doesn't even make sense.) I'm not honestly sure what would be the ideal solution to them, but I do think lowering the perp cost (or even eliminating it) would be a step in the right direction.. Beyond that I don't know, an attack command so that you can at least choose the target they go after would be a decent improvement if coupled with a lower cost though.

You also forget that spirits also have the same defense structure as elementals. You know how hard it is to whack on an elemental with physical damage only? Technically the same (I say technically because mob damage is different than ours). Also, as spellcasters go, they don't get interrupted (as much) as a BLM when they are getting whacked off.

Reducing the perp cost is a right direction, but reducing it below current avatar levels is just silly. I mean, it is so easy to get free avatars now without doing any of the TotM starves, there is no point in having spirits cost less than the avatars now.

[Krisan]

You misunderstand. Having an ability to choose the spells would make SMN a least a little more useful in procing yellow. Why you ask? Because Spirits have all spells a BLM (exception, Teir 3 -ga) and WHM (exception, Banishga II) would have. With the ability to find the element weakness of a NM, you can have a SMN help proc yellow along with the BLM, WHM, BRD, and BLU/NIN.

I simply don't think inside of Abyssea for balance adjustments. Frankly, I don't know why anyone does. Abyssea isn't balanced at all, and hardly any job needs any real adjustment to be viable inside Abyssea (you could throw practically anyone in there and they can half-ass their way to success with the right atma and temp items). I feel it's everything before Abyssea that matters in terms of balance, and of course.. eventually what comes after Abyssea, assuming much of anything ever does come after Abyssea.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice to do this, it would. It'd be handy and it would give SMN something to actually do for a change in the endgame. But I'd rather have something that was more globally useful than something I can only make real use of in Abyssea.

You also forget that spirits also have the same defense structure as elementals. You know how hard it is to whack on an elemental with physical damage only? Technically the same (I say technically because mob damage is different than ours). Also, as spellcasters go, they don't get interrupted (as much) as a BLM when they are getting whacked off.

Reducing the perp cost is a right direction, but reducing it below current avatar levels is just silly. I mean, it is so easy to get free avatars now without doing any of the TotM starves, there is no point in having spirits cost less than the avatars now.

I've honestly never noticed the spirits having defense relative to Elementals. Admittedly I've never used them in a serious encounter before (for obvious reasons) but at the very least.. NPC spirits certainly die a hell of a lot faster than elementals. So unless this is just a player exclusive thing and I just never noticed because they're too unreliable to pull out into a serious encounter.. I don't know. Even with high defense though, I don't think they have considerably high health. From what little I have used them, I seem to recall them dying pretty quickly actually.. but it has probably been years now, so who knows.

And they don't necessarily have to remove perp or make it significantly lower, that was just a thought given how meh they are right now. I do not think they should cost more than the avatars though, and I'm iffy on them costing the same as avatars too.. Maybe a couple of MP less? Something around there anyway, it's silly for them to be so expensive.

[Korpg]

I simply don't think inside of Abyssea for balance adjustments. Frankly, I don't know why anyone does. Abyssea isn't balanced at all, and hardly any job needs any real adjustment to be viable inside Abyssea (you could throw practically anyone in there and they can half-ass their way to success with the right atma and temp items). I feel it's everything before Abyssea that matters in terms of balance, and of course.. eventually what comes after Abyssea, assuming much of anything ever does come after Abyssea.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice to do this, it would. It'd be handy and it would give SMN something to actually do for a change in the endgame. But I'd rather have something that was more globally useful than something I can only make real use of in Abyssea.

Endgame nowadays is Abyssea. It will probably be like this for a while, until we get new or better content. But I still see for at least 3 years that Abyssea will be the new "sky" or "sea."

As for global use, good luck finding a reason to have a spirit out in the first place. Even if we are given the option of selecting spells, BP:Merit will always win out on damage. Elemental Siphon is the only reason why spirits have a use at the moment, and given our choice in spells, the only use outside of Abyssea.

I've honestly never noticed the spirits having defense relative to Elementals. Admittedly I've never used them in a serious encounter before (for obvious reasons) but at the very least.. NPC spirits certainly die a hell of a lot faster than elementals. So unless this is just a player exclusive thing and I just never noticed because they're too unreliable to pull out into a serious encounter.. I don't know. Even with high defense though, I don't think they have considerably high health. From what little I have used them, I seem to recall them dying pretty quickly actually.. but it has probably been years now, so who knows.

And they don't necessarily have to remove perp or make it significantly lower, that was just a thought given how meh they are right now. I do not think they should cost more than the avatars though, and I'm iffy on them costing the same as avatars too.. Maybe a couple of MP less? Something around there anyway, it's silly for them to be so expensive.

The reason why they die a whole hell of a lot faster than elementals is because mobs generally have more HP than players at the levels we fight them, which increase as we increase in levels. Since most pets (outside of BST jugs and Charmed pets) have roughly the same HP as players, don't be looking at staying alive against a NM solo. But the nice thing is, we can do a lot more damage to a mob (usually) than what they can do to us, so it evens out...somewhat.