[Dev 1009] Force Pop HNM's FTW

[Flunklesnarkin]

Sky triggers repop every hour or two. 99 Kindred seals tend to take longer than that.

There are also more people who are obtaining KS at the same time...

hardly anybody farms sky... anybody and everybody killing random non abyssea stuff gets kindred seals...

I'm just guessing the price.. its hardly scientific... but i seriously doubt triggers will be rare/expensive

[Rambus]

Just to clarify some questions that have been popping up regarding these adjustments, KSNM99 BCs will continue to drop black belt-related quest items.

Also, another bit of important information you might like to know, the triggers needed to spawn Fafnir/Behemoth/Adamantoise will be tradeable.

is there any plans to change the update notes based on what has been talked about here?

the change this opens up is allowing more people acesss D ring so meny people will do that route for that. from what I seen KSNM drops for BB items beard and tounge are really high (1 out of 2 or 3 on average)

but what is going to be done to counter the low drop rate for eggs?

[Kindra]

After keeping up with the reading here are my thoughts.

I know most have said that Kindred's seals are easy to farm. That depends on luck though. After leveling 5 jobs the old school way and solo I (and this is just an example of some peoples luck with these) was lucky to even have 99 seals. While i camped my Adi/Aspi I also killed stuff for Kindred seals since I was going to do KS99 for my beard. 3 hours of camping got me about 5-9 seals. Some of us are just not as lucky as others with these seals.

Camping wise, and i mean the 3 hour camps of NQ/HQ, I will agree it's time consuming but at least you have the shot. Now this camping is also not from the days when kings were heavily camped. This is from recently. KB i got lucky he popped and I happened to be there and have friends online after only camping for 2 days. After KB I headed to Faf/Nid which I found to be heavily camped. So I moved onto Adi/Aspi. Spent about a month there, 1 week before the shutdowns and 2 week after that. It was frustrating to camp the Adi's and have Aspi pop and be claimed by someone else lol. But I stuck to it.

Now to say that these NM's are hard to get I do understand. But you still had the 2 shots at the BB item ether way. That is of course if you had the seals. Which is why I choose to do just the Faffy KSNM 99. I didn't have an abundance of seals. Then again I am pretty stubborn and focused when I am trying to get something done.

Here is how I see this update.

HNM Kings yes its only going to benefit 1 group per day. But the camps are far less flooded then they used to be. And you still had the 2 shots because of KSNM 99.

Seals wise some are luckier then others when getting these so yea you still get the 2 shots at it, but not everyone will be getting all these same shots as others. For some people the seals are just harder to get.

Ok soooo here it my break down for what I see from this update.

Farm 99 seals (depending on the persons luck with them this could take a few hours or a few weeks).
Do KSNM 99 (Get a shot at the BB item and also get a NQ pop item I'd say so far s good)
Use your NQ pop (No chance at BB item, and since we don't know what the drop rate of the HQ pop item is its hard to say if this is a good thing or not.)
Now let's say you didn't get the HQ pop item its back to step 1 and keep repeating the first 3 steps until you get HQ pop item. Let's say you go this route 3-4 times (just for examples sake) at this point you have used 297-396 seals (this is just for 1 person btw)
OK now you have your HQ pop item YAY!!! so we pop HQ. (The drop rate has been lowered and to what we don't know. But here is where I see issues. People have now spent those 297-396 seals and lets say that the NQ doesn't drop the BB item. Back to step 1 ; ;. Here is where I think that HQ's drop rate should stay 100% after all that work you should have something for all these efforts. But this also depends on what the drop rates will be lowered to.)

Ok now repeat process for all 3 Kings. To me this is far more time spent then just camping for a few hours a day. But I do have a friend that thinks this is a good thing because he wants Riddil (if this is not spelled right then sorry I can't spell most of the time anyway lol)

I am not saying that the Force pop isn't a good idea what I am saying is that spending all of these seals to get nothing for months on end is a bit much. Please keep in mind that this is based on just one person's seals and I think that maybe I have been on the short side as far as the saying just the 3-4 HQ pop items not dropping. It could be far more or less.

But if you take into account that this 1 person has say 6 friends this and you do this pop a few times assuming that the friends have lots of seals as well, 2-3/6 pops gives you HQ pop item and lets say that these Pops don't drop the item your after you would still be going through a lot of seals.

In short I think this is way more time consuming then just going and camping lol. and sorry for the wall of text .

[blowfin]

Just to clarify some questions that have been popping up regarding these adjustments, KSNM99 BCs will continue to drop black belt-related quest items.

Also, another bit of important information you might like to know, the triggers needed to spawn Fafnir/Behemoth/Adamantoise will be tradeable.

Well played SE, *golf clap*

[Flunklesnarkin]

I think your opinion is a bit misleading kindra.. on average it will be less time consuming for players with the new system..

Old system was completely based on luck for claiming ( or maybe not luck because lots of people used bots >_>)

It left a lot of people out and for those people it certainly wasn't less time consuming.

Either way black belt is suppose to be semi rare... This seems like a compromise between accessibility to the NM's that drop the items and keeping them semi-rare at the same time.

The only people this update negatively affects are people who were claiming the hnm's 90% of the time.

[blowfin]

Here's the thing, kings aren't busy at the moment. They are so relatively easy to claim compared to a year and a half ago it's ridiculous. So, what does that mean? The congestion is already gone from the camps. So why change things now at this very late stage of the game unless they are expecting more pressure on these camps again?

[Denabond]

Here's the thing, kings aren't busy at the moment. They are so relatively easy to claim compared to a year and a half ago it's ridiculous. So, what does that mean? The congestion is already gone from the camps. So why change things now at this very late stage of the game unless they are expecting more pressure on these camps again?

There is always the chance the abj gear will become really good though the synergy augment system. Of course, I have nothing to prove this point.

[Khajit]

That may be the case with adamantoise currently but Behemoth tended to have 17~ people all CCing me on off days and when late in a KB window I'd see a large section of those old endgame ls still clinging to kings as if they're relevant so I guess me vs 20~30 bots at minimum(assuming only 1 of the old ls is there) not counting the misc people whom aren't in those old ls.

[Flunklesnarkin]

Here's the thing, kings aren't busy at the moment. They are so relatively easy to claim compared to a year and a half ago it's ridiculous. So, what does that mean? The congestion is already gone from the camps. So why change things now at this very late stage of the game unless they are expecting more pressure on these camps again?

ehh maybe on your server.. on siren they are still camped heavily.. even with an average of 700 people online at any given time during NA time


I'll use my previous example i tried to camp adamantoise 4 days in a row a couple weeks back.. so thats about 12 wasted hours.. also during retarded times of the day.. in which i never managed to get claim.

a fifth day of not getting claim wouldn't be unreasonable.. ive been outclaimed many times

so lets say about 15 hours wasted or round it up to 16 hours for the time it would have taken to arrive at the camp each day


During that time you could have spent 16 hours doing magian trials and getting kindred seals at the same time

so a seal drops once every 5 mins .. 50% chance beastmen or kindred so we could say a kindred seal drops about once every 10 mins on average

10 mins * 99 = 990 mins or 16.5 hours... so for anybody camping an hnm and isn't getting a claim more often than once every 5 days this system is far better

Which would seem to be most people at least on my server... the same people always claim the hnm's.. there is always one group who claims behemoth because they are camping Dring

So if for whatever reason you dont want to spend all that retarded time camping hnm's

every 5 days or so of doing random magian trials or exp in non-abyssea are for 2~3 hours a day.. you'd get a 99 orb

doesn't seem overly challenging.....

If thats the hardest part of getting a blackbelt these days i wouldn't complain

[Kindra]

I think your opinion is a bit misleading kindra.. on average it will be less time consuming for players with the new system..

Old system was completely based on luck for claiming ( or maybe not luck because lots of people used bots >_>)

It left a lot of people out and for those people it certainly wasn't less time consuming.

Either way black belt is suppose to be semi rare... This seems like a compromise between accessibility to the NM's that drop the items and keeping them semi-rare at the same time.

The only people this update negatively affects are people who were claiming the hnm's 90% of the time.

While I understand what your saying here I also see that the Kings are not being camped as much as they they used to be. Had this system been put into place when the kings were so heavily camped I think it would have been more excepted then it is being now. I do agree BB should be rare. But I took the time to camp mine the old way and in all honesty I got lucky that it only took me abut a month lol. I didn't have to compete with other MNKs for the BB items and I have friends that helped .

I wasn't trying to be Misleading all I was doing is saying what I see. Basicly how I feel about it . Not everyone will agree that is what makes us all Unique