Do something about the AH and lower level gear????

[Karbuncle]

We're 23 pages in, there's hardly anything rational about his arguments anymore when they've been taken apart by countless people, yet he keeps coming back saying the same thing.

I quite enjoy attempting to keep my conversations with a certain sense of Nice-ness :|

[RAIST]

We're 23 pages in, there's hardly anything rational about his arguments anymore when they've been taken apart by countless people, yet he keeps coming back saying the same thing.

IDK about being taken apart, but whatever...I just believe in taking a more proactive stance rather than sitting around waiting for someone else to do it for me. And I'm not the only one with this outlook--the very first reply in the thread was pretty much just defiant to the OP. Mine was trying to show what is out there, and what is coming. Since then I've been trying to show how people can make the existing system work--and I've been constantly attacked for it. Nevermind that it is a system that is known to work for those who pursue these option, as supported by others in the thread.

I'm just stating facts about the game--showing what is available, so people can see just exactly what options already exist to compare and contrast to what others are proposing, and make an informed decision. There is no denying that there are already options currently available to provide adequate gear.

This debate has come about simply because people stopped freely offering their wares on the AH, and there is a small group of people still expecting them to do it for free, a loss, or next to nothing--there is no reason to think that those items cannot still be made by SOMEONE in the game, just either no one is providing the incentive to make them or simply isn't asking nicely. When my perspective on the issue has been challenged with an example, I have gathered up the information and presented the facts. At least I am providing details and links for people to actually SEE what is out there already and not just saying:

Make it profitable for crafters to craft.

If you don't want to pay more money than what is obviously not attracting sales on AH, don't complain!

Again, this was the the very first reply in the thread. I put forth the effort to actually support the idea of using other options already in the game, and I get attacked for it--continually throughout the thread. It's almost as if they think it is someone else's responsibility to gear their toons and not themselves. If this is the general attitude of the in-game personalities of some of these players, that might explain why some may be having trouble getting assistance...but that is a whole other debate.

And speaking of some info, here is something I just looked up in the Jueno data on accounts that have been actively trading the last 30 days (for the most part, since the servers came back online). I searched each craft skill individually for people in Recruit Rank (11-20). This is the crafting skill range to make a ton of gear up to round level 15-17. It was just my server first, then out of curiosity, I looked it up against all servers:

69 smith (2000+ all servers)
16 cloth (560 all servers)
29 alch (1061 all servers)
48 wood (1455 all servers)
50 Gold (1309 all servers)
32 leather (868 all servers)
28 bone (901 all servers)
28 Cook (944 all servers)

That is a lot of people with a good foundation for crafting low level gears, with potential to easily move on to 20+ stuff for skillups if they want to take them further. Up to level 20, you are able to turn a lot of raw mats into items used to make higher tier stuff (cotton>thread>cloth>gear). It's possible the numbers are just as good or even better at higher levels as a lot of higher craft items require subcrafts in the 20+ range as well. So...I did another search for getting something more specific made:

Lvl 29 Seer's Tunic set: A single player must have 29 Bone, 25 Leather, 26 Cloth to be at or above the caps to make every one of these pieces.
57 (1778 all servers)

At the time of searching, I found 2 NA people listed as online at roughly 4:30 AM Eastern. On my server alone, there are up to 76 people getting close to being able to make at least 1 of these pieces for skillups, and over 2000 across all servers.

And here's another one I forgot about from earlier in the thread: the level 46 Bone Knife (41 Bonecraft). Level 38 onecraft can make reliably (38-40 can make easily with support and get skillups)
88 (2000+ all servers)

This begs the question: if you don't want or can't get vendor/cp items, is it really all that hard to find someone who can make stuff for lower level jobs?

[Karbuncle]

{DisclaimerII: Please not a lot of time i reference the word "You" or the like in this argument. This does not necessarily apply to "You" but "You as a general public" not you specifically}

Not all new players have the gil to fork over 50k for some +1 Armor because crafter don't feel its profitable enough.

I have a hard enough time spending that on the best leg armor for low levels (Republic Subligar). Which is still amazing and fast selling, Yet rarely is on the auction house... Its nearly 200% profit too...

I'm sorry but "Pay more of blow me" isn't a good argument when it comes to new players. Most will not have the gil to pay for all this, and there is where the problem is. Yes i know "GO FARM YOU'RE LAZY" again why do you care if new players can more easily access meaningful gear without hours of farming and hoping its on the AH?

I'll say this again so i don't get to far ahead of myself:

I think we should wait until the AH Merger, See if that solves the problem. If it doesn't and it still persists, we should look into solutions that move away from the AH and crafters.

Sometimes the solution isn't "Fill the crafters pockets with more gil". I'm not saying i want them to put this stuff up for little-to-no-profit, Thats insane. I'm only saying if this merger doesn't fix it. The solution needs to be found away from Crafting, Not toward it. Cause as you there yourself claim, the very first post is probably reflected on 90% of crafters. Until low-level players are willing to pay out-the-ass for low level gear, There won't be a market.

Edit: while you can /sea across 2500 people and find 2 people online with the craft you need. Did you happen to send either a tell and say "Hey, I"m a new player in bastok mines. Can you come here to bastok, Craft something, for little to no profit?"

I bet if you had, You would either be Ignored or gotten "I'm Busy". I don't deny you're the type of guy who would go out of their way to help others, So Am i. Go look at the "Fay Crozier" page on FFXIAH and come back. I crafted dozens of those, FOR FREE, back when they were more than 200% profit.

But as its plainly obvious by the man you yourself quoted, unless We're ready to be extorted, Low level armor is going to remain scarce. We need to look away from crafting. Cause I cannot blame crafters for wanting to make a profit, I can't, But some/all new players won't have the gil to pay out the-behind for These things, so we'd be back to square one.

Yes, I know its a "player" problem, but it doesn't mean it cannot warrant a Dev-Solution. Its no skin off my back if new players don't have to jump through hoops to gear up, Why is it to you?

[Ravenmore]

Low level crafted gear offers little over what you can buy off NPC/CPs. Only till you get to higher level does gear make a differance. Food makes up for alot more then gear will at low level, which once the merge happens will be easy to get at any level.

[Greatguardian]

If low level players want to decrease the cost of armor, they can increase the supply of the materials. Not only will they earn some gil, but their gil will go further if it becomes less of a headache to craft armor.

We're not working in a vacuum. The primary cause for increased shelf price and lower supply of Armor is the increased material price, which directly stems from a decrease in supply caused by RMT no longer flooding the market. Making crafting viable for a profit does not always mean paying increased prices for finished goods; it can also directly translate to decreasing the costs of materials.

Granted, there are more efficient ways to make gil even at low levels compared to harvesting/mining. However, the indirect benefit to gathering becomes the decreased cost of goods. Sure, everyone on a server can farm beehive chips and make gil quickly (this is an example, I don't know what the heck those sell for any more), but their increased income is going to be spent buying inflated goods. It's a conscious choice that the market makes.

With that said, I also agree that the AH merge may be vastly beneficial to this process. If for no other reason than the fact that players in starter cities will now be able to list materials bought from Guild NPCs instantly on the Jeuno AH.

[Bookong]

I really think SE should make an NPC in each of the dedicated areas to sell gear around that level.

For example:
Nations 1-30?
Selbina/Mhaura 10-20
Jeuno 20-50
Norg/Rabao etc 50-60.
and so on

Make them affordable, but reduce the sellable price so people cant exploit.

I find it very difficult to get gear as a new player.

*this*! just for the basics. there is plenty of rare/ex to help fill in gaps and give buffs, but a solid base of plain gear to help new players get powered up so they can be strong enough to earn the nicer stuff would be great. Gil may not matter when you get to endgame, but it's an uphill battle early in the game.

[Karbuncle]

Low level crafted gear offers little over what you can buy off NPC/CPs. Only till you get to higher level does gear make a differance. Food makes up for alot more then gear will at low level, which once the merge happens will be easy to get at any level.

This is flat out untrue, Its because this armor is so rare that makes it ALL the more precious. and its not only about craftable armors. Its just crafting happens to be the hot-topic. I'm also talking more about armor in general not being on the Auction house. Like the following.

Compound Eye Circlet.
Brass hairpins +1
Sage's Circlet
Kingdom bandana
Republic Circlet
Bone Armor+1 set
Beetle Armor+1 set
Republic Cap
Chache-nez
Traveler's Hat
Garrison armor set (Hey, a tie in to the "low-end content till high-end content" Thread)

Thats just up to level 20, and only looking through head armor. Each one of those has Stats that are important to low levels, HP, MP, INT, Etc. All may seem insignificant, but at those levels its because of their scarceness that they're so valuable, and in todays world, half of those armors are rarely ever on the Auction house.

Some legs off the top of my head.

Federation Slops
Baron's Armor set
Mage's Slacks.

Thats up to level ~20 as well

For Body... Items like:

Campaign Level 1 Armor .
Kenpogi +1 (offers DEX+1)
Power Gi
Republic Harness
Kingdom Vest
Kingdom Tunic
Priests Robe

This doesn't even account for Accessories. Black Neckerchief, Spike Necklace, Bone/Beetle Earrings+1, STR/DEX/ETC Rings, Belts like Priests Rope, Warriors Belt/+1, Brave Belt, Besieger's Mantle, etc. some of those offer amazing benefits to low level players. Food goes a long way, So does armor with meaningful stats. Look at items like "Mighty Ring" with Attack+5 Enchantment. or the Acc+2 Enchantment DEX ring. Amazing benefits.

Gear does make a difference at that level, Especially gear that offers DEX/STR/INT/MP/HP because at low levels that makes a lot of difference. The best level 20BLM in the best INT gear he can get will out-nuke a new player forced to buy NQ-NPC crap by 10's of Damage. while that seems laughable low, you have to consider the Average nuke at that level is ~20-50 Damage. The difference between 20~50 and 40~70 is significant that level, as much as at level 90 the difference between 200~500 and 400~700 is.

I know when i leveled BLM i made it my goal to deck myself out, Black Silk Neckerchief, HQ Armor with a little bit of INT+1 on it, I had to camp Ah days in advance to find this armor, and even then I had trouble getting a lot of it. But i could out-nuke a newb BLM who was forced into NQ Gear cause he didn't have the resources i had (Millions of gil, Friends, Etc) by 20~30 Damage a nuke or more. The difference is noticeable, especially because of how rare it is that level.

[Karbuncle]

With that said, I also agree that the AH merge may be vastly beneficial to this process. If for no other reason than the fact that players in starter cities will now be able to list materials bought from Guild NPCs instantly on the Jeuno AH.

I think this will be a monumental step, My only argument is that if this doesn't fix it completely, Our solution needs to be found away from crafting/relying on the AH for low level players. I think us Established players take friends, linkshells, Gil, Ability to farm, Knowledge of farming spots all for granted.

Even the best knowledgeable player right now who starts as a newb, will still need to be level ~20 and in Jeuno to make a meaningful profit on anything, enough to pay the prices Crafters want from low level armor.

I feel like the Merger will solve a lot however.

[Ravenmore]

Again all those stats can be made up for in food except lol eva for that lvl. cream puffs 7 int and you can't out level it same with sushi meat dishs what not. Really there not that many new players, most of the low level players are returning players that should know bout food farming and the like. There will be fewer and fewer new players so why waste the dev time for something that not a big concern with all the options that all ready in game.

[Karbuncle]

Again all those stats can be made up for in food except lol eva for that lvl. cream puffs 7 int and you can't out level it same with sushi meat dishs what not. Really there not that many new players, most of the low level players are returning players that should know bout food farming and the like. There will be fewer and fewer new players so why waste the dev time for something that not a big concern with all the options that all ready in game.

You seem to act as if those stats don't stack with food. They do, Actually. I can still eat Sushi if i'm wearing Mighty Rings. I can still eat Cream Puffs If i wear silk neckerchief. Just because food makes up for things at low levels doesn't mean those armors are any less important. For instance at low levels accuracy is still an issue. You could use Mighty Rings and Eat Sushi, or use the DEX+1(Acc2.Enhc) Rings and eat meat if you have some of the other HQ Armor.


Just because new players are in the minority doesn't mean they should be ignored. We've already through the last 23 pages discussed how the current systems in place are difficult or impossible to use for Low Level genuinely new players, then the only other option is NQ junk.

I'm not asking they divert all their resources to something like this, but they've fixed Low-level things in the past. Fields of Valor, Low-level Skill ups, the Double-Exp system (to a point), Signet-Bonuses, Etc. So it is possible to introduce a new means for low level players to find armor.

I want to once again reiterate, I Feel the Auction house Merger will solve 99% of Complaints, I'm only saying if it turns out it doesn't, resources (not a large amount) should be diverted to devising a way to make it easier for new players. Even if they're in the minority, They deserve attention just like High-level players do.