Do something about the AH and lower level gear????

[Karbuncle]

And honestly - which is more lazy - wanting to be able to spend the money you worked hard to earn on gear so you can work your character up in level and become part of the gaming community?

Or having a craft/multiple crafts leveled and REFUSING to supply the market for a small profit because it is easier to buy things with cruor and then npc them?

The hypocrisy is stunning.

Brofist

(/^_^)/\(^_^\)

[blowfin]

Or having a craft/multiple crafts leveled and REFUSING to supply the market for a small profit because it is easier to buy things with cruor and then npc them?

Well, no profit at all, or a loss is probably more accurate. However that does raise an interesting point. Why should new players be expected to level up through the crafting system when its clear theres no market demand for most low and mid level gear apart for a single use on yourself?

Either way, another nail in the coffin for crafting being a good solution.

[Karbuncle]

Well, no profit at all, or a loss is probably more accurate. However that does raise an interesting point. Why should new players be expected to level up through the crafting system when its clear theres no market demand for most low and mid level gear apart for a single use on yourself?

Either way, another nail in the coffin for crafting being a good solution.

Most people i know who took up crafting didn't do it until they had a good high-farming job. Because its incredibly expensive and slow.

So even in a perfect world, Crafting as a Solution for new players is flawed. The Gil/items required for such things would be near unobtainable for new players. Really I think when people bring up leveling the craft to make the armor as a solution its insulting to new players. When i bet 99% of the people suggesting that probably didn't even know what crafting was until they were ~30+ >___>

[blowfin]

Most people i know who took up crafting didn't do it until they had a good high-farming job. Because its incredibly expensive and slow.

So even in a perfect world, Crafting as a Solution for new players is flawed. The Gil/items required for such things would be near unobtainable for new players. Really I think when people bring up leveling the craft to make the armor as a solution its insulting to new players. When i bet 99% of the people suggesting that probably didn't even know what crafting was until they were ~30+.

Even another Nail~

Yup. From memory I looked at leveling crafts to make my own armor when I first started. Then I promptly decided that GS and Smithing (i started in Bastok) wouldnt reap any rewards until id invested a heap of gil, and that id rather kill things with my mate instead of farting about for weeks with synthing.

And that was in a healthy economy...

[RAIST]

Peopel with crafting mules probably started crafting at higher levels, but I know many that started it early like I did. I don't have a mule. I decided on day one that I wouldn't. I started crafting early--as I saw it's potential to save gil. I was determined to be as self sufficient as I could. I did it with items I got off mobs for the most part. It's not that hard if you do it right--there are even guides to walk you through doing it and earning gil. That was a choice I and many others made in the past, others apparently are not choosing too now. That makes it personal. Sorry if you think it's rude to say that... but it is factually true. So, as for the taking up crafting argument, new players starting new crafts and posting results in the starter AH's would be a good start to fixing the issue, just like it did in 2002. That is a viable player solution to a player generated issue--sorry if that again sounds rude, but it is true.

As for the veterans crafting--they no longer had an incentive to make the items, so they stopped. I stopped selling cermet chunks because they kept coming back. I made a few pots--they didnd't sell...and so and so and so forth. So, now I just npc the shards because I get more that way then I can in the AH. I've been trying to list drops for a profit above NPC prices in the AH--and they come back, so I just NPC them-=-those that can't be NPC'd, I bazaar for a while until I need th space and drop them. If people aren't wiling to buy for the price expected, than the item is eventually no longer produced/farmed and put on the AH. Pure and simple. If players need something--they need to let the players know so it can be provided by the players again. Plain and simple. Either they need to front the items, or be willing to pay a price for market sustainablility. Judging by the general tone of this thread...niether of those conditions exist. Again, that is a personal choice of the players--again, making it more a personal problem.

The lack of an AH in FFXIV was not what killed the enthusiasm for it. It was one of many things that disappointed would be players. Granted, it is an issue, but one that made it unplayable? If people were willing to adjust, they would have played it. As I have stated before--the wonkiness of the UI and various restrictions frustrated me...so close to FFXI, yet enough different to mess with my head, so I opted to go back to FFXI. My issue with that game was base playability moreso than the fact I'd have to make my own crap--that just adds an extra dimension to the play style. My issues were with the raw mechanics and functions in the game that I just wasn't ready to commit to learning at the time--maybe when I'm done with FFXI I'll take it up, but not going to do both at one time. I could do both just fine, and learn to like it. Them adding an AH, or streamlining the UI won't bring me back to it--I am just choosing not to right now. Personal choice.

And the merger of the AH wasn't done specifically for the new breed of players. This has been requested from the playerbase for YEARS. It is more to streamline the system requested by and being implemented more for the existing playerbase. They just recently realized there appears to be a decline in the markets to the point it is creating angst among new players. The decision to do this was under consideration long before this debate cropped up. A lot of things had to run through the process in the dev. circles before they got the go ahead on this.

Regardless if you are pro/con to tweaking things--consider this. If it is sooooo bad, and new players are leaving in droves over it.... why are we regularly picking up new players in our LS, and why do I routinely see people trying to form Dunes and Qufim parties (and not veteran players I might add--people in dunes without subjobs)? It would appear that in spite of the difficulty, people are managing to find gear and get along somehow...

[Karbuncle]

Admittedly I did not read the entire post and i apologize. But i just wanna comment on the last paragraph.

I think you're focusing entirely too much on "Its easy enough shut up noob" than thinking about how it would improve the quality of new players, and their experience in FFXI. If you check my jobs on FFXIAH, I have all of them ~30+, Most of them 90. I party at low levels often and you would not believe how often i hear players saying they enjoy the game, But its too hard to find good gear, Or its too hard to find a good item to farm, or simply asking the party wheres a good spot to farm/etc cause they can't find good ways to make gil, or the armor they want isn't in stock and they cannot find a crafter willing to do it without expecting a large tip.

Yes, Some people persevere, These are people who probably have friends/help. Not everyone plays this game immediately having friends/Linkshells/etc to guide them to the right shops, Show them how to farm, give them gil/items. There are probably just as many new players who end up quitting by ~lv20 because Stuff was too hard and no one would help them, as there are new people you find joining your LS.

I'm not saying its "SUPER HARD BRO", I'm only saying an Improvement to Low-level gear systems, how to obtain armor, Or even adding armor like the Suggestion in the other thread about low level gear, Can only serve to Improve the QUALITY of players that level range, and how much they Enjoy the game.

I don't feel its such a catastrophe if new players can get gear easier than us, Or have a simpler time getting armor without having to resort to bribbing a crafter, Praying they're high enough rank in Conquest or paying someone to spend their CP (which fat chance If you're a level15 Bastokan WHM in bastok, you're going to randomly find a Windurstian willing to pony up for Windy gear for your Mage job), or just plain being forced to NQ it up with Crappy NPC Gear, which btw, does not include Rings, Earrings, back, Belt, or Neck armor. (For the most part!)

It Is hard for new players who do not have friends, or Linkshells to help them a long, A system in place to aid those low level players should be considered. It won't harm, Why does it matter if its gets implemented or not.

Truthfully I wish that they had Implemented a System like the one suggest here:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l-gear-problem.

When i was Getting my Maat's Cap, i would not have had to camp the AH 3 days in advance just to get the item i wanted.

[Olor]

I'm not saying its "SUPER HARD BRO", I'm only saying an Improvement to Low-level gear systems, how to obtain armor, Or even adding armor like the Suggestion in the other thread about low level gear, Can only serve to Improve the QUALITY of players that level range, and how much they Enjoy the game.

I don't feel its such a catastrophe if new players can get gear easier than us, Or have a simpler time getting armor without having to resort to bribbing a crafter, Praying they're high enough rank in Conquest or paying someone to spend their CP (which fat chance If you're a level15 Bastokan WHM in bastok, you're going to randomly find a Windurstian willing to pony up for Windy gear for your Mage job), or just plain being forced to NQ it up with Crappy NPC Gear, which btw, does not include Rings, Earrings, back, Belt, or Neck armor. (For the most part!)

This is exactly it - I don't understand the resistance to making things a bit easier on new players. The hardest part of the game shouldn't be finding an appropriate weapon for your job at your level - the challenge should be in the gameplay not in trying to navigate a byzantine economy.

[RAIST]

again... all of that is a player issue, not a game design issue. We are dealing with limited resources for development, and there are likely much more important things to work on that the players have no control over. This IS something the PLAYERS can fix...the call should be more for veterans to assist. A large number of us are trying already, just not enough.

If these new players are the type to just quit when it gets hard, then a lot of them will drop off when they get to TAU levels if they aren't leeching in abyssea. So, you are just lobbying to delay the inevitable.

[Karbuncle]

again... all of that is a player issue, not a game design issue. We are dealing with limited resources for development, and there are likely much more important things to work on that the players have no control over. This IS something the PLAYERS can fix...the call should be more for veterans to assist. A large number of us are trying already, just not enough.

Your arguments up to now have been quite rational, but the idea that anything we do on here is going to someone convince thousands of crafters to start pumping the AH Full of low level gear is an absurdity. The reality is there will never be enough crafters making unprofitable slow selling low level armor to completely erase the "problem". I'm not saying we need a solution right now, but As i said in one of my previous posts in this thread or the other one."...Again",

"I Think we should wait until the Auction house Merging and see how it playes out. If there is still the problem/complaints about it from new players, We should consider an alternative solution away from "Crafting"."

To which i found the Solution offered in the other thread would be a decent idea. It involves a current hot-item in low leveling (Fields of Valor) and has realistic implementations.

But anyway, One of the Reps has been going around to a lot of the popular threads saying basically "We're working on a lot of stuff now, Theres no development time to implement a lot of suggestions right now.". or thats what i get. It seems like we can't expect anything we suggest here to be added until next year, or when the current Roadmap ends.

So i'm game with not continue this discussion any further. You in? We can continue it 12 months from now :P

[blowfin]

Your arguments up to now have been quite rational

We're 23 pages in, there's hardly anything rational about his arguments anymore when they've been taken apart by countless people, yet he keeps coming back saying the same thing.