Do something about the AH and lower level gear????

[RAIST]

Hmm, considering SE introduced Reraise earrings with a type of tutorial NPC for new players, to me means they understand the need to "Help" beginners to this game get started... this thread is no exception, considering the current state of the game.
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I love this idea. It can ACTUALLY work! An NPC (one ALREADY in the game, no need to create a new one) located strategically, based on leveling areas--offering gear items consistent with the area that they are in... now, similar to how the starter cities offer "bare-bones" weapons and armor sets--these NPC's should offer the same choices.

This really should only be needed up to level 39 or so, since the AF weapon (item) becomes available to jobs around that time... from there AF gear kicks in for all jobs, which "CAN" be technically worn til 75... so what are we realistically looking at: gear selections starting at around level 15 (i believe current stores/shops offer weapons/armor up to level 12)... then additional gear/weapon selections from 15 - 39 scattered around.

This would have absolutely NO impact on the crafting system... if anything, this may ADD to equipment/weapons to the Auction House for circulation...as well as offering possible desynth materials to high-end crafters.

Like these, perhaps?

Selbina:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Herminia
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Torapiont
(NPC's selling scrolls here also)

Mhaura:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Runito-Monito
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Mololo

Kazham:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Khifo_Ryuhkowa
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Tahn_Posbei

Norg:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Jirokichi
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Achika
(NPC's selling scrolls and NIN tools here also)

If you actually read up on what they offer, the really expensive gears are pieces you wouldn't be able to equip if you are partying for xp out there. An example: in Kazham, the Battle Bow for 40k gil is a level 40 item from NPC, +1 sells for 20k in AH--and guess what, a Battle Bow +1 is up for sell in Jueno as I type this. The lower level stuff that you would be able to equip when xping in those areas is lower priced, and sells for less or on par to what you might spend to get similar gears in the AH. Level 24 Spear for 16-18k from NPC, The +1 version of that same spear sells for 20k in the AH.

So...all I see lacking here is that you can't get the +1/hhigh end pieces from the AH. Yeah, you may be spending the +1 price for the NQ version....but, you would be spending that gil in the AH and it really wouldn't be a gamebreaker to have the +1's at those levels--you're only talking a minor difference of DPS rating from 515 to 545 in the case of those two spears. It is basically going to take you the same number of hits to kill the same mob with each weapon, and you are only talking an 11 point difference in delay (1/6 a second per swing).

Once again....the option to buy adequate gear for reasonable prices from NPC's already exists out there.

[RAIST]

@Glamdring
I don't mean any disrespect, but using PUP as an example in a thread about new players is kinda out there. To unlock PUP, you had to hit level 30 and get to Aht Urghan, then quest the job. Also, by that time, you should have access to materials and crafters to make you some gears by then.

All that hardly qualifies as something a new player would have done. This whole "problem" is centered around new people entering the game who don't have the resources available like someone who has been playing a while.

Edit:: oh, and have you looked into getting some T.M. Hooks? Level 50 item you can get from CP(16k CP from Windy, Rank 5)--either your own or a friend? Might take some doing to get a 70+ Bonecrafter to +1 them for you, but even as NQ piece they are pretty solid. I forget the other CP pieces.. seems to me there were some level 30-ish ones from Bastok you couled get to use now.

Edit #2: eh.. my bad.. brain fart--those are level 10 that upgrade to level 15. About on par with damage per hit as lynx, but swing slower. Could try your luck at getting the Mythril from chests in altep--think you can spam FOV there at 42 for some decent xp too. Or just find someone to make them. easy mats to obtain, and it's only 48 smith/13 bone to make them. But considering you are only 8 levels from T.M. hooks......meh

[erevan]

Well thank you to the very few who tried to help come up with solid ideas for making an adjustment to the way the game has progressed. Its just too bad that most have to turn it into my way your way crap.

Why not have a way for the NPC's, that people sell items too, to let them put it up either the AH or a "NPC AH"? But this would work for the lower level gear/weapons, but I can't see it working for much above lvl 20-25.

[Kuvo]

So you're asking us to discuss a problem, but at the same time demanding that we don't discuss the essential mechanisms of the subject?

Cool story bro.


You seem full of angst, calm down. If you're going to present something so loudly, make sure it's something that you actually understand a little bit.



The problem isn't with the game's economy as much as it is with the game's direction. The AH is bare because no one is playing the game that the AH was built around. Calling the situation complicated is almost an understatement, and I don't know that there is an obvious solution. What needs to happen is a draw away from Abyssea and into vanilla areas of the game.


Some things to consider:

-Adjusting level sync to much more isolated applications. Maybe it should only work within five levels of the sync'd level. Maybe this could scale somehow with progression too, since level populations have never been equally distributed. This would help to bring back traditional parties.

-Raising the level cap in Abyssea to 76.

-Maybe include some kind of statistic bonus for gaining EXP in the game's 'native dimension' whereby players leveling in the traditional way may come out slightly stronger than players who don't. Like gaining .001 STR per Incredibly Tough monster in zones outside of Abyssea. These bonuses could be job dependent or even mob dependent. This shouldn't be too crazy, but something where a DRK who leveled in the traditional way might expect to have 5 more STR at level 99 than one who didn't.

-Some kind of 'rebirth' concept applied to 99 jobs where a player can choose to reset it to level 1 while granting a very significant boost to the job's potential. Abilities, stats, traits, w/e.

These are just as bad ideas as the "Jump to conclusions mat"...

The issue remains to be less of lower level equipment on the AH because players aren't doing low level things. The majority of players (according to the last SE poll) have characters lvl 75 what this tells me is not many people are either doing beginning content or there aren't enough new players to support the demand for low equipment or materials for that matter.

Level sync had a large hand in this because I know when I sync with another player and I'm the higher of the two I just keep my equipment on even though it has little to no effect on the lower level. I would never waste gil on buying the best low level stuff just to gain a little bit of exp now that i can sync down and keep the same gear i have on now. Sure it looks strange to see a dunes party with all AF and relic weapons doing 10-20 hits of damage but thats just how it is.

Combining all AH will help for sure cause now when I do pick up low level equipment instead of tossing it or NPCing it for a loss, i can now put it on a mule character or just put it up on AH and I know it has a better chance to sell.

[xiozen]

Like these, perhaps?

Selbina:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Herminia
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Torapiont
(NPC's selling scrolls here also)

Mhaura:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Runito-Monito
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Mololo

Kazham:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Khifo_Ryuhkowa
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Tahn_Posbei

Norg:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Jirokichi
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Achika
(NPC's selling scrolls and NIN tools here also)

If you actually read up on what they offer, the really expensive gears are pieces you wouldn't be able to equip if you are partying for xp out there. An example: in Kazham, the Battle Bow for 40k gil is a level 40 item from NPC, +1 sells for 20k in AH--and guess what, a Battle Bow +1 is up for sell in Jueno as I type this. The lower level stuff that you would be able to equip when xping in those areas is lower priced, and sells for less or on par to what you might spend to get similar gears in the AH. Level 24 Spear for 16-18k from NPC, The +1 version of that same spear sells for 20k in the AH.

So...all I see lacking here is that you can't get the +1/hhigh end pieces from the AH. Yeah, you may be spending the +1 price for the NQ version....but, you would be spending that gil in the AH and it really wouldn't be a gamebreaker to have the +1's at those levels--you're only talking a minor difference of DPS rating from 515 to 545 in the case of those two spears. It is basically going to take you the same number of hits to kill the same mob with each weapon, and you are only talking an 11 point difference in delay (1/6 a second per swing).

Once again....the option to buy adequate gear for reasonable prices from NPC's already exists out there.

Thanks for the info. I admit, I didn't look, guilty as charged. Well that sorta blows my idea outta the water. Hmm, perhaps then if SE increased the amount of gil world-wide that NPCs' bought stuff from players at... I believe the NPC buy-back prices in the original areas have not been really adjusted or modified since the game was brought on-line. I think perhaps at this later stage the buy-back prices should be consistent with the economy. For example: A pair of bronze leggings buy-backed for 50 gil... bump it up to 500 gil etc... then the Auction house for the same item can be bought for 1k...etc... I don't know... just brainstorming.

[Glamdring]

@Glamdring
I don't mean any disrespect, but using PUP as an example in a thread about new players is kinda out there. To unlock PUP, you had to hit level 30 and get to Aht Urghan, then quest the job. Also, by that time, you should have access to materials and crafters to make you some gears by then.

All that hardly qualifies as something a new player would have done. This whole "problem" is centered around new people entering the game who don't have the resources available like someone who has been playing a while.

Edit:: oh, and have you looked into getting some T.M. Hooks? Level 50 item you can get from CP(16k CP from Windy, Rank 5)--either your own or a friend? Might take some doing to get a 70+ Bonecrafter to +1 them for you, but even as NQ piece they are pretty solid. I forget the other CP pieces.. seems to me there were some level 30-ish ones from Bastok you couled get to use now.

Edit #2: eh.. my bad.. brain fart--those are level 10 that upgrade to level 15. About on par with damage per hit as lynx, but swing slower. Could try your luck at getting the Mythril from chests in altep--think you can spam FOV there at 42 for some decent xp too. Or just find someone to make them. easy mats to obtain, and it's only 48 smith/13 bone to make them. But considering you are only 8 levels from T.M. hooks......meh

Yeah, I have looked into all of that. Unfortunately, the Mythril Claws are a craft only (I don't care about HQ), and pup weapon choice is really fairly sparse. I didn't see any need to go into the level 30ish weaps as they weren't any better than lynx (lower delay on lynx compensates for slightly lower damage). If a smithing buddy is on tonight I'll try to have him synth the mythril (I have all the materials, just not the levels to make myself). The Adargas require a material that is never available, and not much luck on exocets (0/3 with 90 thf and TH5).

As to the new player comment, Pup is really screwed on gear choice with mage gear but no native casting skill. Currently using my full mercenary captain set, I'll get the lvl 50 JSE from Brygid and switch to my crow set for the rest, subbing in AF as I reach levels. But the fact remains, there was better gear than what I have coming up that pup could use, if it were ever available; the fact that I have 4 90s doesn't say anything about what I did have that was usable for pup. I think I'm going to switch to /rdm to capitalize on the gear choices I do have until my AF, although my elf MP stinks, especially from sub only.

Basically, this was just an example. If you 1st went up the ladder as a war but want to play blm or rng or whatever you generally can't use the gear that got you to 30 in the 1st place. Your only real option is the weaker NPC sold stuff with the occasional quested piece (friar's rope, rse, etc.) or to just camp the AH in hopes of grabbing whatever when it might show up (I did that for a repeating X-bow to make my sharpshot, took 9 days) and THAT is the part that is so frustrating. The same for consumables, but npcs are a bit more viable there.

[Olor]

Just curious....was this an issue in 2002 when the game was first released? Just how did players make it back then?

Food for thought....discuss amongst yourselves....

I can't speak for JP release but... just after NA release when I first played...

No, it wasn't because there was almost always 1-17 pieces of every NQ non-useless gear on the AH in Jueno. Now when I look for a knife for my DNC most of the time there is exactly 1 knife of any type I can buy from 20-30 on the AH. This is a real issue (as evidenced by even the developers acknowledging it).

Heck back then you could even buy relevant gear for your job into the 30s in your LOCAL AH.

I will say it again - my preferred solution is increasing the number of skill-ups from crafting to give more people an incentive to start doing it.

[Mirage]

There are lots of NPCs selling low-mid level gear, but many items (specially in the mid-level range) are unreasonably priced compared to their stats. Of course, it can be problematic to price NPCs well when you also have a free, player-controlled market on the side.

I think it would be a good idea to revise the prices of at least some of the items for sale, and perhaps also which items are sold.

[RAIST]

I can't speak for JP release but... just after NA release when I first played...

No, it wasn't because there was almost always 1-17 pieces of every NQ non-useless gear on the AH in Jueno. Now when I look for a knife for my DNC most of the time there is exactly 1 knife of any type I can buy from 20-30 on the AH. This is a real issue (as evidenced by even the developers acknowledging it).

Heck back then you could even buy relevant gear for your job into the 30s in your LOCAL AH.

I will say it again - my preferred solution is increasing the number of skill-ups from crafting to give more people an incentive to start doing it.

yeah.. DNC kinda got the short end of the stick on weapons like PUP. I stuck to H2H till like 35 I think it was--didnt' even touch daggers on it until I could use my Fed/Wind. Kukri and bone/bone +1.

If you can get access to the Windy CP gears, may be worth it to grab the Merc. Capt. Kukri. These upgrade easily to Wind./Fed. Kukri when you level up some more. They will hold you well until Bone/Bone +1. Those weapons are ~35-45 craftable items--should be able to find someone that can make them for you. The Bone Knives may be a bit tricky (bonecraft), but upgrading the CP knives are smithing.

[chubrocka]

Why not have a way for the NPC's, that people sell items too, to let them put it up either the AH or a "NPC AH"? But this would work for the lower level gear/weapons, but I can't see it working for much above lvl 20-25.

Great idea!!!