Make the Relic and Empyrean WSs Questable

[Karbuncle]

I see you sounding like me in trying to take both sides, one hand you got relic weapons and keeping the relic ws on that weapon for relfection, then the other hand you have the ws is so bad without the relic weapon why care?

for an accomplishment means others knowing you did it right? What are you achieving if no one gives recognition? I did not say anything but the other night I saw someone say "hey xxx neat scythe" (it was the shinru scythe twlight scythe?) and yet no one points out the next person having an emp bow doing 2-3k damage ws or even pointing out mine.

In other words I feel it makes the weapon's reflection less of an accomplishment if everyone can use ws x from high end weapon y.

back in the day you see someone using one of those ws it was like omg he has a relic now people think those abyssea weapons could be relics......

I do understand you can rebuttal me and saying you, yourself know what you accomplish or don't expect people to comment on your gear/ weapons. I do not want to sound elitist or anything in saying I expect parse but at the same time I find it strange that people can mistake the relic ws abyssea weapons for being a relic just because it has the ws.

The only difference questing for relic ws to be used on any weapon like mythic are is the social value is my only point. Basically if anyone can use a relic ws, its not easy for the average person to release oh that’s a relic weapon ( point back to my GA abyssea weapon example)

I would look at it like this, what is gained for making relic ws appear for everyone? Really nothing unless you want a different sc starter. ( like for my GA if i get the opportunity of being lucky I would ranging rush> raging rush> relic ws for light. That holds little tatical vaule since you have other ways of making light ( can just KJ someone). the mythic ws did brige a lot of jobs in being more sc friendly as is, like drk getting a fusion on scythe. then you have emps on top of it. I still think it is a shame now that mythics got stuck on level 1/ level 2 ( some level 2/ level 2) when emps have level 2, level 3

So my basic question is this for people that really want this. Why should SE make such a quest vs worring about other matters that need more fixing? ( like mythic, relic weapons vs emp weapons, AH slots, fellow NPC issues, other bug fixes and so on)

Sorry I went to bed :|

Anyway, As for your question about why add Relic WS's if they'd be mostly useless? Thats one thing i attempted to address. There would be no point i could see. the WS would be useless outside of Aesthetic purposes. Which is why In the second or third paragraph i plainly state that its incredibly unlikley Relic/Empyrean WS will ever be added because they each already have 2 procurement methods. However, Mythic Weapons were added to quests for seemingly no reason but to add content. They could have easily been Mythic Exclusive just like Relic weapons.

Now, If your argument is "I don't want you to have it cause it makes me feel less special and i don't get enough people telling me "cool armor bro"" I just don't think that's a fair assessment.

You got a Relic Bow, Its a magnificent Achievement, Personally I'd of gotten the gun, but the Bow Is damn nice for SAM? I see someone with a Relic, I'll check them, probably say "Cool stuff" IRL, but i'm not going to pat them or send them a tell, they're probably afk or got better things to do. To be frank, Most Relic holders are Dicks. not all of them, but a lot of them. So i tend to just say "cool" and move on. Other decent one I've met so far is Shamaya :\

But, I DO understand your perspective, You worked all this time for something and you get no recognition, While the guy with Twilight Scythe probably spent 5 minutes leeching a Brewed run for his Weapon, and he gets Recognition for it. I'd be pretty tweaked too, but that's no reason to hold malice toward those people or use it as a Reason to hold relic WS.

I guess what I'm saying is a see your point, But at the same time, Rather we keep relic WS's exclusive, or give them to a quest, It won't change how people react to your relic. Some people will ignore it thinking you're probably an elitist, Some people will probably pat you on the back. I completely get the idea of wanting others to recognize your achievements in an MMO, hell when i got my maats cap back before Abyssea I wore that shit in town all the time. Now any idiot with enough Cruor can get one and Its also mostly useless, nearly completely useless. But i don't blame SE For it, And truthfully if they handed out maat's caps i'd be like "oh well, its useless, And i got mine the enjoyable way"

Then again, I'm a guy who looks more at the Journey, not the destination. You seem to be about Rewards and Recognition. nothing wrong with either.

but i digress. Really, I Don't care either way if they add Relic WSs' to quests or not, I strongly Strongly doubt they ever will, But if they did I probably wouldn't care too much. If anything I'd get them for fun, But they'd be useless. So, to answer again your final statement.

"Why should SE make such a quest vs worring about other matters that need more fixing?"

I don't think they should. But the "Content focusing" Argument Isn't a really good one. Them not doing this isn't going to guarantee they'll fix Relics/Mythics, or allow us to put more stuff on AH. in fact Doing this would probably take as much effort as copy > pasting Mythic Weaponskill Quest onto Trial of the Magians with a few tweaks.

but again, Either way i really do not mind. I, again as i said in my first post, Think theres just entirely too much anger coming from both sides of the argument when these weaponskills are not worth the trouble. (Relic ones, Empyreans I won't even bother discussing cause the idea of "Questing" them is dumb when Trial of the Magians is a quest, and theres already 2 methods)

[Rambus]

No, hardly nothing. Myself and others have felt that should it be possible to permanently have access to the Emp WS, having at least the WoE weapon should be a requirement to initiate the subsequent quest(s). As is, if we wish to keep access, that means forever having to use said weapon. That's basically saying your weapon progression stops unless some off-hands are a possibility and until maybe a trial or two comes with each update.

Perhaps you could call it the Zilart effect, but I don't want old equipment to be the best for years upon years again. The pinnacle variants of Relics, Mythics, and Empyreans stand as an exception to this, but their justification lies in a mix of difficulty to acquire and the unique perks they get on top that should ideally make them better than any weapon below. If this isn't the case, SE's dropped the ball on their design. So, in part, I'm calling for buffs to those. Then again, I've also felt the requirements for Relics and Mythics to be too harsh, so easing those conditions wouldn't be objected against by myself or others... save maybe those whose feelings will be hurt by more people getting access to content that's designed to be... accessed.

Comment to you building off some other stamtements:

most emp ws are not even great to begin with, if you put emp ws on any weapon then you will have everyone and thier mother doing GA str route.

It is a bad idea to try put emp, and relic we for everyone to have.

If you do not like old gear being useable why are you playing this game? relics are not the only thing being used at 90.

FFXI is not like other MNO, what other game has a quest that takes 2-5 years? There would be issue if ALL old gear was the best but that is not the case, what is the issue with allowing some old really good gear to be infused into new quests to make them good?

the magian trials for relics and mythics was not the first time SE made upgradeable gear, what about AF > af+1 and relic > relic +1? and the future plans with other old gear though syngery?

Sorry I went to bed :|

Anyway, As for your question about why add Relic WS's if they'd be mostly useless? Thats one thing i attempted to address. There would be no point i could see. the WS would be useless outside of Aesthetic purposes. Which is why In the second or third paragraph i plainly state that its incredibly unlikley Relic/Empyrean WS will ever be added because they each already have 2 procurement methods. However, Mythic Weapons were added to quests for seemingly no reason but to add content. They could have easily been Mythic Exclusive just like Relic weapons.

Now, If your argument is "I don't want you to have it cause it makes me feel less special and i don't get enough people telling me "cool armor bro"" I just don't think that's a fair assessment.

You got a Relic Bow, Its a magnificent Achievement, Personally I'd of gotten the gun, but the Bow Is damn nice for SAM? I see someone with a Relic, I'll check them, probably say "Cool stuff" IRL, but i'm not going to pat them or send them a tell, they're probably afk or got better things to do. To be frank, Most Relic holders are Dicks. not all of them, but a lot of them. So i tend to just say "cool" and move on. Other decent one I've met so far is Shamaya :\

But, I DO understand your perspective, You worked all this time for something and you get no recognition, While the guy with Twilight Scythe probably spent 5 minutes leeching a Brewed run for his Weapon, and he gets Recognition for it. I'd be pretty tweaked too, but that's no reason to hold malice toward those people or use it as a Reason to hold relic WS.

I guess what I'm saying is a see your point, But at the same time, Rather we keep relic WS's exclusive, or give them to a quest, It won't change how people react to your relic. Some people will ignore it thinking you're probably an elitist, Some people will probably pat you on the back. I completely get the idea of wanting others to recognize your achievements in an MMO, hell when i got my maats cap back before Abyssea I wore that shit in town all the time. Now any idiot with enough Cruor can get one and Its also mostly useless, nearly completely useless. But i don't blame SE For it, And truthfully if they handed out maat's caps i'd be like "oh well, its useless, And i got mine the enjoyable way"

Then again, I'm a guy who looks more at the Journey, not the destination. You seem to be about Rewards and Recognition. nothing wrong with either.

but i digress. Really, I Don't care either way if they add Relic WSs' to quests or not, I strongly Strongly doubt they ever will, But if they did I probably wouldn't care too much. If anything I'd get them for fun, But they'd be useless. So, to answer again your final statement.

"Why should SE make such a quest vs worring about other matters that need more fixing?"

I don't think they should. But the "Content focusing" Argument Isn't a really good one. Them not doing this isn't going to guarantee they'll fix Relics/Mythics, or allow us to put more stuff on AH. in fact Doing this would probably take as much effort as copy > pasting Mythic Weaponskill Quest onto Trial of the Magians with a few tweaks.

but again, Either way i really do not mind. I, again as i said in my first post, Think theres just entirely too much anger coming from both sides of the argument when these weaponskills are not worth the trouble. (Relic ones, Empyreans I won't even bother discussing cause the idea of "Questing" them is dumb when Trial of the Magians is a quest, and theres already 2 methods)

I get everything you are saying but i just want ot point out my other comment, some guy though I had a relic GA because I used the ws ( was abyssea drop)

I just find it funny I got recognition on some drop and not the real thing, I do not expect parse, just stating an overstation.

[Malamasala]

(Relic ones, Empyreans I won't even bother discussing cause the idea of "Questing" them is dumb when Trial of the Magians is a quest, and theres already 2 methods)

The staff is a good example of an empyrean hardly worth making, but a WS that would be good on your main weapon. While the mythics are good weapons, with terrible WSes. Guess which ones were made available. Sometimes I wonder if the SE developers do not play mage jobs at all.

[Karbuncle]

The staff is a good example of an empyrean hardly worth making, but a WS that would be good on your main weapon. While the mythics are good weapons, with terrible WSes. Guess which ones were made available. Sometimes I wonder if the SE developers do not play mage jobs at all.

They probably Don't, But uses and reason aside, Looking at the current track record, I simply do not believe we will ever seem Empyrean/Relic WS's added to a quest to be made permanently usable :|, While it would be really fun for me to get Mercy Stroke whenever, or be able to use ...... You know i can't think of another decent Relic WS and i have like 9 jobs at level 90...

But anyway, While i think it'd be fun, I simply don't see it happening is all ...

[Greatguardian]

The staff is a good example of an empyrean hardly worth making, but a WS that would be good on your main weapon. While the mythics are good weapons, with terrible WSes. Guess which ones were made available. Sometimes I wonder if the SE developers do not play mage jobs at all.

I'd be forced to wonder why any mage would be hitting the mob or using the same weapon long enough to get 100TP, really. WHM and the club WS? Maybe, but those dozen or so across all servers who would do it right already have a WoE/Emp club.

[Andylynn]

You know i can't think of another decent Relic WS

Metatron, Kaiten. They both do decent damage.

[Karbuncle]

Metatron, Kaiten. They both do decent damage.

I think (99% sure) Raging Rush Stomps Metatron in every way, It wouldn't be worth using ever outside of Shiny-ness. Which is why I didn't mention it :|

Kaiten perhaps, But SAM isn't one of my 90 jobs so i don't know how it preforms next to Gekko I've already read mixed reviews.

[Andylynn]

I think (99% sure) Raging Rush Stomps Metatron in every way, It wouldn't be worth using ever outside of Shiny-ness. Which is why I didn't mention it :|

Kaiten perhaps, But SAM isn't one of my 90 jobs so i don't know how it preforms next to Gekko I've already read mixed reviews.

90 Kaiten is comparable to Fudo.

[Karbuncle]

90 Kaiten is comparable to Fudo.

Interesting. I would like to see that actually, Sounds pretty good.

[Kazen]

Going by the modifiers it seems Tachi: Fudo will be the better of the two by a decent margin.