Job balancing?

[detlef]

It seems like BRD is getting the most attention is there any other jobs that could use some focus? I am pretty sure SE is aware of all the problems that BRD has since the introduction of GEO. But there are a handful of other jobs that need help like the ones that aren't BLM/GEO/BST/PLD/BLU - RDM on rare occasion and COR on rare occasion.

BRD is only getting attention in here this thread because a handful of people care enough to discuss it. Other jobs certainly have issues and people should speak up about it.

So you just sing a dummy song and overwrite all 4 songs again at Gjallarhorn power. Is it hard NO, does it take more time, Yes, but then you have a fresh set of full power songs. That is the negative of songs, much like the negative of geo is that 1 of its bubbles is around the caster. Name one job that has all positives with no negatives. Castings songs does not take time with fc/-song casting time gear which is easy to cap now. The ONLY time I would not overwrite is if it were SV songs. If 1 is dispelled I would put on another song that was not part of the 5 that were sung.

I understand that this is what has to be done, but I’d argue that the job’s mechanics should be improved to make it easier to get 4 songs up and maintain them. Yeah, it’s possible but could really be improved.

Just like how I think BST is currently playable but its mechanics could be vastly improved for a much more pleasant play experience. Just like how Aftermaths should be able to overwrite themselves. It just streamlines the game and makes it more fun to play.

Also, having Indi spells centering around the GEO is not universally negative and is very often beneficial.

Its not so much sacred as I would like it to be equally boosted. Like I said before I have no issues that NQ brd gets boosted, but those that worked on Gjallarhorn should be boosted more. Much like how a NQ geo can do alot but an idris geo can do even more. This type of tier is what I'm asking for. If NQ brd gets boosted and not Gjallarhorn brd how is this akin to how geo is setup? It's just giving Gjallarhorn power to everyone and forgetting about those that did do the work to get Gjallarhorn. Is this fair?

Right, a NQ GEO can do a lot but an Idris GEO can do more. But if they increase the potency of Malaise, that benefits both Dunna and Idris GEOs. I don’t see how increasing the strength of buffs is helping only NQ players.

But to be fair the buff should be put on the mythic, carnwenhan, since Gjallarhorn is relatively easy to get. This would be on par for difficulty as Idris since ergon wep was meant to be mythicish(not from nyzul so isn't really a mythic). The boost would be the combination of Gjallarhorn and Carnwenhan to be on par with Idris geo.

Carn already gives us a huge duration boost. Why should the buff be on the Mythic weapon? You want only RME BRDs to get invited to anything? What we need is a scenario where 3-song, non-relic BRDs can still get invited to things and that only happens if the job itself is addressed, not its legendary instruments. RME BRDs will still always be better than 3-song BRDs.

[VoiceMemo]

Right, a NQ GEO can do a lot but an Idris GEO can do more. But if they increase the potency of Malaise, that benefits both Dunna and Idris GEOs. I don’t see how increasing the strength of buffs is helping only NQ players.

It comes down to the difference between NQ and HQ brd. For instance look at GEO's Geo-Refresh, The difference between NQ bell and idris is 5mp/tic. When you compare NQ brd(+2 all songs and emp +1 legs) and HQ brd(+4 all songs and emp +1 legs) its only a +2 difference.

So as my previous post I said:

If it was only 1 type of song per person max ballad we could give is only 8mp/tic for ballad 3(Gjallarhorn +4, base 3, Emp legs +1). At the moment this is the ONLY spell that can exceed geo's buff ability, Ballad 1, 2, 3 with Gjallarhorn +4 and Emp legs +1, totals 21mp/tic, idris geo maxes out at I believe 16mp/tic. With bolster(1hr) goes to 32mp/tic, but brd can SV and go to 42mp/tic.

and

For instance Ballad 1+5+2+5+3+5=21 native now in your suggesting of combining all songs into 1 song with the power of the boosts added. Now Gjallar + legs adds 5 more for 26mp/tic. So who would go after Relic for only a 4mp/tic boost? What is the advantage then of a Relic brd?

Idris already grants a greater boost from a NQ geo to a HQ geo with the weapon compared to a NQ brd and a HQ brd(REM). This is also reflected with their buffing spells that are calculated by a percentage.

My point again is that if base songs get changed with the current STATIC nature of + all songs, that it just further just gives FREE Gjallarhorn power to all brds. To be fair Gjallarhorn power would have to increase, but to counter act GEO's from complaining that it's too easy to get it would need to be on mythic weapon, which is comparable in difficulty to attain as Idris.

A real world example would be NQ = person paid $9/hr without college degree, where HQ = person paid $20/hr who went to college. Now you just give raise to NQ to $18/hr just because that's what the other NQ(geos) are getting and HQ person gets only raised to $21/hr because they already made more than $18/hr . Is that fair to the HQ person? They put in all that work but yet because to equal other NQ(geos), NQ(brd) gets raise and HQ(brd) gets pittance.

Now IF brd +all songs was changed to be a PERCENTAGE boost rather than a STATIC boost then yes it would scale accordingly.

In this case real world, NQ would make $18/hr but then HQ would be boosted by percentage, not 200% like NQ but maybe 150% to $30/hr.

Carn already gives us a huge duration boost. Why should the buff be on the Mythic weapon? You want only RME BRDs to get invited to anything? What we need is a scenario where 3-song, non-relic BRDs can still get invited to things and that only happens if the job itself is addressed, not its legendary instruments. RME BRDs will still always be better than 3-song BRDs.

The boost would go on Mythic because if it was placed on Gjallarhorn, Geos or other jobs would complain that it is TOO easy to get vs how their Idris takes to get.

[OmnysValefor]

As a GEO, GEOs don't have room to be complaining about anything.

Except the awfully implemented off-targeting mechanism for bubbles.

[detlef]

It comes down to the difference between NQ and HQ brd. For instance look at GEO's Geo-Refresh, The difference between NQ bell and idris is 5mp/tic. When you compare NQ brd(+2 all songs and emp +1 legs) and HQ brd(+4 all songs and emp +1 legs) its only a +2 difference.

Okay, so let's get something straight. In your eyes, a HQ BRD has RME, Ghorn/Carnwenhan/Daurdabla. NQ BRD has regular instruments, Kali/Legato, and Terpander. Let’s assume that both are capped on song+ and song effect duration gear (Fili+1 body, Aoidos neck, no Marduk legs because Ballad, Brioso feet, don’t have my gear sets in front of me ATM). Using Ballad as an example like you did, HQ BRD is able to provide:

-obviously 33% more songs (4 versus 3);

-Due to Ghorn and Carn, the HQ BRD is able to provide songs that are 39% longer duration (233% versus 168%), 31% difference with Blurred Harp;

-And if you look at potency, HQ BRD’s buffs provide 36% more refresh (15 mp/tick versus 11) for double Ballads, 15% difference with Blurred Harp.

Correct my math if I'm missing something, but I have to ask you, why isn’t BRD being invited anymore? It probably isn’t because the boost provided by RME are too weak. It might be because the job as a whole needs improvement.

Edit: math was bad.

[VoiceMemo]

Okay, so let's get something straight. In your eyes, a HQ BRD has RME, Ghorn/Carnwenhan/Daurdabla. NQ BRD has regular instruments, Kali/Legato, and Terpander. Let’s assume that both are capped on song+ and song effect duration gear (Fili+1 body, Aoidos neck, no Marduk legs because Ballad, Brioso feet, don’t have my gear sets in front of me ATM). Using Ballad as an example like you did, HQ BRD is able to provide:

NQ brd = 3 song JSE harp and the all songs +2 Eminent flute or Forefront flute.
HQ brd = Carnwenhan, Gjallarhorn, Daurdabla

My example was comparison of NQ geo Dunna and Nepote Bell, geomancy +5, versus the idris geomancy +10. Compare this to Eminent flute +2 to Gjallarhorn +4. Because of the PERCENTAGE nature of geomancy spells idris geo sees much more boost than dunna geo, but the STATIC nature of brd the power isn't nearly as great.

their nq +5 on dunna is greater than the hq of gjallarhorn already. To be on a lvl field perhaps Eminent flute goes to +5 and Gjallarhorn to +10, but this is why I suggested that the buff be on Carnwenhan, else geo's would complain that brd's powerful instrument is so easy to get.

-obviously 33% more songs (4 versus 3);

4th song does not apply to this example as there are only 3 ballads, this is comparison of ballad power.

-Due to Ghorn and Carn, the HQ BRD is able to provide songs that are 39% longer duration (233% versus 168%), 31% difference with Blurred Harp;

Duration is long yes but this is about the power, and the power of songs comes from Gjallarhorn. Duration is a different story.

-And if you look at potency, HQ BRD’s buffs provide 36% more refresh (15 mp/tick versus 11) for double Ballads, 15% difference with Blurred Harp.

Yes duration will give more MP back for total time, but again this is about power of the buff not total MP recovered.

Correct my math if I'm missing something, but I have to ask you, why isn’t BRD being invited anymore? It probably isn’t because the boost provided by RME are too weak. It might be because the job as a whole needs improvement.

Edit: math was bad.

The main reason why brd isn't invited as much is because of the HP mechanics of alot of the fights. Because less people = less HP brd becomes a luxury to have. Also because of the time limits imposed by SE for these battles. Brd unless you SV is not about a sprint, by the nature of brd songs its about the marathon. Brd is helpful when a fight runs long as they are not bound by mp constraints and can provide the support needed for the longer battle, ie ballads.

The BEST reason for brd at the moment is Requiem 7. As a REM brd this is one of the longest dmging DOT spells at around 5 minutes unresisted. Very useful to keep mobs from regening in cases of wipe situation.