Make the Relic and Empyrean WSs Questable

[Seriha]

The fact these guys want the player to have the weapon to begin with first totally removes the point in questing them, as usually the weapon they come on is superior to others out there.

I think you're underestimating utility values that could be brought in by various weapons. DA paths could mean more frequent WS and higher average WS damage. The TP Bonus/WS DMG% do their obvious thing. Same with STP. Maybe you need more ATK, ACC, or even -PDT. And that's just looking at magian trials and ignoring things like Isador for BLUs or other crafted/dropped weapons that have and have yet to be released.

I'm still looking at this from the mindset that Abyssea isn't forever, either. Some of these WS lose their luster when you're suddenly minus gigantic crit rate boosts or triple attack on jobs who'd otherwise not get it thanks to atma. Do you still want people using Rampage, Vorpal Blade, Gekko, Guillotine, and so on at 99? I don't. Can't really say some of the skill learned WS they added are upgrades, either. Or you can be in RDM's shoes where Sanguine Blade would be nice to have, but SE saw fit to make it an EX WS.

[Kazen]

I'm not speaking in "ifs", if that happens later down the road then so be it; as it stands now Emps are the best so the weaponskills that correspond to the weapon should remain exclusive.

[Andylynn]

I do agree that there should be an obvious best weapon in the game.. but i don't think it should be a relic / mythic / empyrean weapon..


which is why I think making the weaponskills questable wouldn't be a horrible thing..

If SE plans on adding new endgame content.. and adds a new ultimate weapon..

making the weaponskills questable wouldn't ruin the epeen for the people who play to be the best.

Not going to happen, they already have a plethora of balancing acts to perform between relic mythic and empyrean, why would they add another set of problems to the equation?

[Flunklesnarkin]

Not going to happen, they already have a plethora of balancing acts to perform between relic mythic and empyrean, why would they add another set of problems to the equation?

I think the reason they would make an obvious best weapon is so they don't have to balance 3 sets of weapons

and making an ultimate weapon tied to old outdated (easy prey) content is silly imo ;o

yes relics use to mean something.. now all it means is you have a small group of people who can farm weak mobs and one of those people happens to have sleepga >_>

but yes.. if they make a new ultimate weapon then i wouldn't see a huge issue with these being questable...

if they didn't then no they shouldn't.


I do hope they can make a weapon to put relic / mythic / empyrean to shame... I can see fault with all 3 of those weapons being the best.

[Andylynn]

I think the reason they would make an obvious best weapon is so they don't have to balance 3 sets of weapons

and making an ultimate weapon tied to old outdated (easy prey) content is silly imo ;o

yes relics use to mean something.. now all it means is you have a small group of people who can farm weak mobs and one of those people happens to have sleepga >_>

but yes.. if they make a new ultimate weapon then i wouldn't see a huge issue with these being questable...

if they didn't then no they shouldn't.


I do hope they can make a weapon to put relic / mythic / empyrean to shame... I can see fault with all 3 of those weapons being the best.

That would only bring in a plethora of complaints from all 3 types of weapon users -_-. That would only serve to create more problems, not solve any.

[Flunklesnarkin]

That would only bring in a plethora of complaints from all 3 types of weapon users -_-. That would only serve to create more problems, not solve any.

Idk I could see a sort of beautiful irony in all of it....

Everybody is arguing about which weapon from outdated.. and soon to be outdated content should be the best.. when the correct answer would be none of them ^^

a new ultimate grind weapon taking years to complete and requiring an alliance to make would be a useful addition to the game imo

instead of finishing an empyrean in a few days in a duo/trio.. or power grinding dynamis with 6 or less... or farming salvage like i do.. (I'll finish my mythic one of these days >_<)

[Nacht]

This is a bit late, but...

Nah, let's run with a variant of your school reference through a grading scale.
A+: Empyreans and the ODD Aftermath.
B: Quested WS with a good weapon used over the WoE version.
C: WoE weapon with the WS not yet learned for B.
D and below: Those noobs we all hate, right?

The only time B ever chances bettering A+ and eliminating any and all incentive is if the subsequent trials for the Empyreans result in almost no actual sense of an upgrade. By default, we can expect more tacked onto the Damage rating and the currently listed stat boosts. There's nothing stopping SE from tweaking, say, Almace's delay down to 210 from 224 or giving CDC from it a partial MP return based on the damage done.

In the case of elemental weaponskills, the damage of the weapon is not related to the damage of the weaponskill. In the case of Armageddon, if the WS were questable, the absolute best gun would be the occasionally attacks 2-4 times gun. The increase in WS frequency overshadows the change in damage per shot from ranged attacks. Allowing empyrean WS to be questable is essentially obsoleting the Armageddon.

The main attraction to the gun is the Weaponskill itself, not the damage, and not the aftermath. Those qualities are bonuses that are nice to have, but the weaponskill itself overshadows the other properties of the gun. I would be really pissed off if Wildfire was usable without the WoE or Empy gun. It completely ruins the gun.

[Greatguardian]

a new ultimate grind weapon taking years to complete and requiring an alliance to make would be a useful addition to the game imo

This is everything that was wrong with Relic weapons in the first place. Old school FFXI catered to those who could lead a shell full of Trogs to throw body at content until the leaders got their gear. It's part of why there's such a huge anti-Endgame population out there now. Everybody's got a complex, "I can only be on 3 days a week and my friends have low playtime but I want the best stuff too". Abyssea was the best thing to ever happen to these folks and most proceed to blame it for everything anyways.

[Seriha]

This is a bit late, but...

Yeah, I know not all weapons carry over the same, and my suggestion was basically low-balling an example to prove that something could be done to still maintain the hierarchy. Ideally, you'll need to look at each individual weapon and the jobs on it to decide what additional perks should be present. The MP restore from an Almace's CDC was a nod in that direction as PLD, BLU, and RDM are all MP using jobs. Quietus from a DRK could do something like letting a T3 nuke hit like a T4 with a strong Fast Cast and Conserve MP (I'm running from the angry DRKs now!). Just examples, and more or less a repeated plea for people to keep an open mind about an idea that's not totally without merit unlike Bacon Mage, drop PS2, or whatever.

That said, I'm pretty much out of things to say about all of this and need to get ready to head for my sister's for a few days. I'm sure there will always be some level of agree to disagree, and me just posting this is probably insta-surrender in the eyes of those arguing against me. Oh well. Like I said earlier, I doubt it'll happen. Still fun to fantasize at times, though.

[Flunklesnarkin]

This is everything that was wrong with Relic weapons in the first place. Old school FFXI catered to those who could lead a shell full of Trogs to throw body at content until the leaders got their gear. It's part of why there's such a huge anti-Endgame population out there now. Everybody's got a complex, "I can only be on 3 days a week and my friends have low playtime but I want the best stuff too". Abyssea was the best thing to ever happen to these folks and most proceed to blame it for everything anyways.

It could be an ultimate grind weapon that the entire alliance could work on at the same time.. think like einherjar points.. or the magian vnm trials pre abyssea..