Nerf Beastmaster

[Sogoro]

So far no person that actually plays BST seriously, the people who have put in the effort to learn the ins and outs of BST and got the JP to have a 10 second ready, have bashed people. Mistaking good arguments for bashing is not reasonable.

Anyone who really learns how to play their job has the ability to be useful. It is up to the community to play this game, not the devs. If people are shouting BST BST BST (which by the way, I play JP prime time on Asura rarely see shouts for BST but rather BLU and GEO) because they can kill faster is not a problem if other job setups can accomplish it as well albeit slower. Killing slower does not equal a warrant to be upset that another job can do it faster. Phy Dmg vs Mag Dmg. I remember back in 06 where there were BLM mercenary groups doing KSNM 99. I do not recall people getting upset by that.

So really, the issue is not that BST can do this safer/quicker. Its clear that people are not gearing properly or changing subjobs in order to fulfill different roles. I believe Thief can now get a 119 cross bow and sub RNG to utilize WS if RNG attack was the only viable option. It would also be possible then to range shoot up to 1000tp then run in and TA rudra off the tank(if range WS wouldnt work) and then run away and not die. There are ways to play this game besides cookie cutter. The community needs to become better than this quibbling.

[Cyleena]

If people are shouting BST BST BST (which by the way, I play JP prime time on Asura rarely see shouts for BST but rather BLU and GEO)

JP prime time there might not be shouts (idk because by time the JP population comes on game I am usually off doing rl stuff) but try being on the game during NA time or EU time. I run a EU shell and all day there is shouts for bst bst bst on Asura. I am sitting on game right now crafting and I have seen shouts for bst especially SR shouts, Escha shouts, skirmish, etc. It happens a lot. Maybe the JP population is not using them (or shouting for them if they do) but everyone else is. lol

[Cyleena]

So far no person that actually plays BST seriously, the people who have put in the effort to learn the ins and outs of BST and got the JP to have a 10 second ready, have bashed people. Mistaking good arguments for bashing is not reasonable.

Most the people getting upset about bst and the potential nerfs are bandwagon bsts. I know of a few on Asura who get really upset if you say you do not want them on bst, or if you mention about nerf to them (they totally were not main bst before this all happened). There is a lot of people in this forum getting upset about it too if you read past posts, and on other forums as well. Realistically unless you were soloing before bst got more powerful you did not main bst as your job. I do not know of anyone in all the years I have played this game that can honestly say bst is their main job until recently when all of a sudden everyone went bst nutso. People started bandwagoning bst when it got powerful, and now go out for blood if they think you are against having bst in your group and get nasty (and yes it seems like the more serious bst are not the ones bashing but the ones that jumped on it when it became relevant).

[Olor]

Most the people getting upset about bst and the potential nerfs are bandwagon bsts. I know of a few on Asura who get really upset if you say you do not want them on bst, or if you mention about nerf to them (they totally were not main bst before this all happened). There is a lot of people in this forum getting upset about it too if you read past posts, and on other forums as well. Realistically unless you were soloing before bst got more powerful you did not main bst as your job. I do not know of anyone in all the years I have played this game that can honestly say bst is their main job until recently when all of a sudden everyone went bst nutso. People started bandwagoning bst when it got powerful, and now go out for blood if they think you are against having bst in your group and get nasty (and yes it seems like the more serious bst are not the ones bashing but the ones that jumped on it when it became relevant).

People weren't on BST because it was certifiably terrible before it got recent boosts. I have considered BST one of my mains for a long time... others in this thread defending have been posting about BST for ages...

Also it's ridiculous to barge into this thread and claim Dasva is trying to create drama - when they have been interested in BST for years and have always been a part of BST threads on here.

As far as I can tell you're argument is "people don't like BST so its okay that they are demanding it gets nerfed so they never have to play with a BST"

Frankly, I think it's ludicrous for people to "not like" a job so much that they demand that it's made so bad no one can play it. If you don't like a job, play something else! Why ruin other people's fun?

[Cyleena]

People weren't on BST because it was certifiably terrible before it got recent boosts. I have considered BST one of my mains for a long time... others in this thread defending have been posting about BST for ages...

Realistically speaking before the big boost there was not that many who thought of bst as a main job. Yes, there is some out there, and it is mostly people who would solo a lot on game. End game shells never looked for bst to join before they became powerful. I run a end game LS and deal with tons of people on game, and I can not really think of any who consider bst main before they made beast powerful that did not solo a lot. I am not saying they are not out there, I am just saying that unless you soloed a lot other jobs were more used. I have handled lots of applications from people and I can not think of any over the years that said bst was main. That being said I know there is people out there that consider it their main but since it became more powerful there was a lot of bandwagon people that jumped on just like there was when thf, blue, etc became powerful. It is how it goes, and we all know that. I was just saying that this whole thing is a very touchy topic off forum and on the forums. I have seen people talk bad about bsts in groups I was in and the people who were on bst were saying they were going to log off etc just cause it got them that upset (bst was not their main, and they did bandwagon it), and I have seen this happen more then once. I know of some people who even have joked about bst or teased people who were on bst about it needing to be nerfed (I did not say it did so please do not twist these words), and the people on bst get super upset over it. That being said this happens anytime any job gets powerful, look at sam, thf etc when they all got boosted, then eventually nerfed.

It is kinda sad that a person cannot even come on the forums and give personal opinions and experiences without people twisting their words, and trying to put words in their mouth (not talking about you Olor). Especially when they have not even said anything bad about the job, or said it needed to be nerfed. I can see people wanting to defend the job they love but people not even saying anything bad about the job are being criticized, and having words twisted into something they not even said.

[kylani]

Realistically speaking before the big boost there was not that many who thought of bst as a main job. Yes, there is some out there, and it is mostly people who would solo a lot on game. End game shells never looked for bst to join before they became powerful. I run a end game LS and deal with tons of people on game, and I can not really think of any who consider bst main before they made beast powerful that did not solo a lot. I am not saying they are not out there, I am just saying that unless you soloed a lot other jobs were more used. I have handled lots of applications from people and I can not think of any over the years that said bst was main. That being said I know there is people out there that consider it their main but since it became more powerful there was a lot of bandwagon people that jumped on just like there was when thf, blue, etc became powerful. It is how it goes, and we all know that. I was just saying that this whole thing is a very touchy topic off forum and on the forums. I have seen people talk bad about bsts in groups I was in and the people who were on bst were saying they were going to log off etc just cause it got them that upset (bst was not their main, and they did bandwagon it), and I have seen this happen more then once. I know of some people who even have joked about bst or teased people who were on bst about it needing to be nerfed (I did not say it did so please do not twist these words), and the people on bst get super upset over it. That being said this happens anytime any job gets powerful, look at sam, thf etc when they all got boosted, then eventually nerfed.

It is kinda sad that a person cannot even come on the forums and give personal opinions and experiences without people twisting their words, and trying to put words in their mouth (not talking about you Olor). Especially when they have not even said anything bad about the job, or said it needed to be nerfed. I can see people wanting to defend the job they love but people not even saying anything bad about the job are being criticized, and having words twisted into something they not even said.

I did feel that your comments were negative initially too, but I hope it's just differences between servers/perceptions. When I hear bandwagon bsts and that no one really had a bst main till the job became 'overpowered', it raises my hackles a bit. I'm glad I'm not on Asura.

I'm not a bandwagon BST. I have known some wonderful BSTs who were full of fun and a joy to play with. I loved the job best when leveling to 75 and charm was the main way to level. I found it exciting and different. I still remember the joy of getting leave. Back then before leave, you had to have your pet die or mischarm before the mob you were killing died or take exp hit. With leave, you still had to time when to let go, but at least you had more control. It was a godsend. Leave isn't much of a deal anymore, lol, but I still enjoy BST most and consider BST my main job.

I think that ever since leveling became easier, there have always been people who will switch to the flavor of the month job, and there always will be. The hatred that I've seen towards BST seems new and particularly unpleasant to me.

As leader of a ls, I bet you've said or heard, if you want to participate in end game, level the job that's needed. Now that folks are switching to BST because it's useful, BST are all bad players that everyone else hates. Was every person who ever switched to BRD/SAM/MONK/WHM etc to get end game gear also labeled as bad players with jobs that need nerfing? I don't understand why BST is so different. Content can be done with other jobs. It's the people who have the perception. It sounds like we agree on that part of the equation.

Even though BST is my favorite job, I have never been in an endgame ls with BST as main. When I joined my first Dynamis ls, I agreed to play RDM but wanted to list BST as my main for the relic, and the leader listed me as RDM anyway. He told me no one wanted BST gear so I'd get it on free lot easily, and he was right. Often, the BST relic just dropped because no one even wanted it on free lot. I get why BST hasn't been wanted. My leader would have let me play as BST (and my ls would, my ls was AWESOME!), but I knew the issues with BST so I played the most helpful job I had.

I duoed thru Abyssea with a PUP, and it was great fun, but other jobs could solo/duo far quicker with less risk and less cost. BST was a joke for Delve and Skirmish. I think any job could hit better than my pet. I know our WHM did (though he was a truly amazing WHM, so I'm not sure it's fair to go by him. I just know my pet whiffed with all the accuracy pet gear i could drum up). So I played BRD and BLM, occasionally RDM. My pup friend leveled PLD and SMN. We never fussed about how OP monks were with Formless Strikes. Much fun as we had completing the content, I got burned out working for gear for jobs I didn't love instead of playing BST or RDM, so I took a break. When I came back, I promised myself I would not do end game and haven't. I've focused on story and leveling whatever I felt like leveling, and it's been great.

Now that BST is good for content and folks are hating on it so badly, it rankles. I have friends who win without BST just fine. Do you really think people need BST to win the Tenzen fight? If so, then maybe Asura has bigger problems than too many BSTs. Maybe on Asura, people playing other jobs are terrible.

[Cyleena]

I did feel that your comments were negative initially too, but I hope it's just differences between servers/perceptions. When I hear bandwagon bsts and that no one really had a bst main till the job became 'overpowered', it raises my hackles a bit. I'm glad I'm not on Asura.

When I was talking about bandwagon bst I was not talking about those that played the job before it got stronger. I was talking about those that had other jobs as main but switched over once that happened just like they do for any other job that gets boosted. I am talking about people I have had experience with, or read about on forums (some of the forum posters I know in game too, so I know if they bandwagon or not). Most of those are the ones that like to get upset and argue if anyone says anything they do not like. They defend these jobs with a passion then once a nerf hits they go back to being main on the job they were before all this happened.

When I said no one had bst main until it became overpowered I was talking about on my server of people that I knew. I was not talking about all bst. It was like when thf Rudra boost came out and all of a sudden all these people started having thf, and making Vajra, etc. Then it got nerfed, and poof most the thf disappeared again besides the occasional thf for treasure hunter.

For example, I have 2 people in my LS that geared beast after it got stronger, and always want to come to events on bst. I have let them come on bst a handful of times. I have to deal with unhappy people because I let bst come to events, unhappy bsts that I call on different jobs, etc. It depends on what your LS has as far as job availability for the event content you do. I have had bandwagon bst threaten to emo log off game since people were saying it should be nerfed, it’s too powerful, etc. (Please do not twist this into I am saying this stuff… I am talking about things I have experienced with others.)

As far as the difference between servers and perceptions this is totally true. Each server has different type of player base, different players with different attitudes, and Asura is very famous for not having the nicest player base, This is evident in town a lot (lately been more quiet but some nights it gets pretty drama filled), and in how people act in shout runs etc. People on Asura are kinda stubborn, and if they find out a setup that works they stick to it and do not change. I am sure this happens on other servers as well but we have a lot of stubborn people on Asura. Lol.

I think that ever since leveling became easier, there have always been people who will switch to the flavor of the month job, and there always will be. The hatred that I've seen towards BST seems new and particularly unpleasant to me.

There is a great deal of people who are switching to the flavor of the month job as you said, and every time there is a job boost this happens. The hatred for bst has been pretty bad, but there was also a lot of hatred to thf, etc when Rudra’s was boosted. Unfortunately, there is always going to be hatred to any job that can do massive dmg, or can match other jobs or outshine others.

I also think that some of the issue is not the job but the players themselves. People give jobs bad reputations. For example, I was in a cp party with a group in Escha. We were at a camp by ourselves off the beaten path, and we were there for like 5 hrs. This bst shows up and starts to AOE our pulls. We ask him to stop and he does not even reply but keeps doing it. He had lots of other mobs in the area he could fight but he just wanted to be a not pleasant person. This got many people in the pt upset with bst cause of this. I know any other job can do the same thing and has done the same thing like blue, blm, geo, etc. Does this make me hate all bst, or blue, or blm? No. But it does make people unhappier with the jobs because of what some people do who play them. Again this comes down to the player base. Do all bst do this or blue or blm or w/e? No. Just a few bad apples can spoil the bunch for some people.

As leader of a ls, I bet you've said or heard, if you want to participate in end game, level the job that's needed. Now that folks are switching to BST because it's useful, BST are all bad players that everyone else hates. Was every person who ever switched to BRD/SAM/MONK/WHM etc to get end game gear also labeled as bad players with jobs that need nerfing? I don't understand why BST is so different. Content can be done with other jobs. It's the people who have the perception. It sounds like we agree on that part of the equation.

I totally agree to the perception and like I have said above and in other posts that some people are just used to doing things a certain way and do not like making changes to setups etc. People also like taking advantage of the fast kills, with minimal support needed. Bst really only needs cor support atm, and maybe an occasional heal, or other tank depending on what you are doing. DD needs tons more support than a bst does, so bst is more favorable because it kills fast, requires minimal support, and does very good dmg.

As far as the level what job is needed of course I have said that and heard that from others. It depends on the game content. Some game content requires more specific setups then others. Like what was mentioned earlier Vagary does not do so well with DD, and is more mage friendly. I have tried to mix bst with our setup but it does not go over well in my LS. We are more mage heavy, and it tends to be hard to do SC etc when you got one or two pets messing it up. If you using Sch to SC or bringing a DD like sam then bst kind of makes it harder to do what strat you want to use, or are accustomed to use. Again this is player perception, and what works for one might not work for another. If you have more pets in your LS you might feel that is the best for you. It really depends on your group, and what jobs are available for the content you want to do.

I duoed thru Abyssea with a PUP, and it was great fun, but other jobs could solo/duo far quicker with less risk and less cost. BST was a joke for Delve and Skirmish. I think any job could hit better than my pet. I know our WHM did (though he was a truly amazing WHM, so I'm not sure it's fair to go by him. I just know my pet whiffed with all the accuracy pet gear i could drum up). So I played BRD and BLM, occasionally RDM. My pup friend leveled PLD and SMN. We never fussed about how OP monks were with Formless Strikes. Much fun as we had completing the content, I got burned out working for gear for jobs I didn't love instead of playing BST or RDM, so I took a break. When I came back, I promised myself I would not do end game and haven't. I've focused on story and leveling whatever I felt like leveling, and it's been great.

I did that in abby too. Lol. We would duo pup and whm. We used to kite the monkey in Abby Latheine that dropped that pup neck just to see if we could when it first came out. That was so much fun, and challenging. We later switched to monk and whm for some of the harder NMs at the time in Abby Ule, etc.

Now that BST is good for content and folks are hating on it so badly, it rankles. I have friends who win without BST just fine. Do you really think people need BST to win the Tenzen fight? If so, then maybe Asura has bigger problems than too many BSTs. Maybe on Asura, people playing other jobs are terrible.

I think it just depends on the group. Some groups do fine without pet jobs, and some do better with pet jobs. At the end of the day it is what works for the group, and their setup. That was actually the first time I seen bst wanted for a Tenzen fight, and I did not recognize the name of the person who shouted, so not sure why they wanted that but if it got them the win that is great.

The biggest issue with shouts is the ones that shout for bsts are mainly Escha and SR, which are the two main content that is most wanted atm, and I hear a lot of complaints that most people just want bst to clear those. I guess others feel left out because they cannot join the shouts? Idk.

[kylani]

For example, I have 2 people in my LS that geared beast after it got stronger, and always want to come to events on bst. I have let them come on bst a handful of times. I have to deal with unhappy people because I let bst come to events, unhappy bsts that I call on different jobs, etc. It depends on what your LS has as far as job availability for the event content you do. I have had bandwagon bst threaten to emo log off game since people were saying it should be nerfed, it’s too powerful, etc. (Please do not twist this into I am saying this stuff… I am talking about things I have experienced with others.)

As far as the difference between servers and perceptions this is totally true. Each server has different type of player base, different players with different attitudes, and Asura is very famous for not having the nicest player base, This is evident in town a lot (lately been more quiet but some nights it gets pretty drama filled), and in how people act in shout runs etc. People on Asura are kinda stubborn, and if they find out a setup that works they stick to it and do not change. I am sure this happens on other servers as well but we have a lot of stubborn people on Asura. Lol.

Thanks for the info. I can understand frustrations within a ls. I feel I've been fortunate with the LS I've been in, but there has still been some drama in the end game ones, and cliques in the smaller ones. It's hard to make everyone happy. Good luck. You've made me appreciate my server and friends all the more.