The importance of job points

[Protey]

If you don't believe me then the fact that someone like Byrth has a similar notion should tell you something.

Appeals to authority are a logical argumentation fallacy.

His opinion and reasoning is no more acceptable than any other player's.

[Protey]

No one is "bent out of shape." Yet another baseless accusation. What I'm trying to do is discourage what I feel is a bad design strategy before irreversible damage is done. Meanwhile, you're just being a dick without provocation.

this is a game. there is no such thing as "irreversible damage". SE has made things in this game one way, then come back and reversed them later on.

[Zarchery]

No one is "bent out of shape." Yet another baseless accusation. What I'm trying to do is discourage what I feel is a bad design strategy before irreversible damage is done. Meanwhile, you're just being a dick without provocation.

"Bent out of shape" is an idiom meaning to get needlessly and excessively worried. Which is what you're doing by making silly accusations like "job points are going to become so necessary to everyone that they're going to start quitting in droves".

[Camiie]

I find this logic not very convincing and logically flawed.....if someone with limited playtime can't cap job point due to the lack of playtime, they probably have too much stuff to do in this game, thus they can go do something else. Job point isn't the only content in this game.

How'd they end up wasting $12 a month if they have too much stuff to do in this game?

Be sure to stretch properly before performing such intricate mental gymnastics. A person who has a couple hours to play in an evening decides they'd like to work on JPs. There's no parties so they decide to solo. In their two hours of play they don't even get 1 JP. After doing this a few times with no relief in sight they get frustrated and either give up on JPs, thus giving themselves less to do in game and defeating the purpose of JPs, or they quit. Sound healthy for the game? To me it doesn't.

Appeals to authority are a logical argumentation fallacy.

His opinion and reasoning is no more acceptable than any other player's.

So my opinions are just as good as anyone else's? Sweet! Thanks!

this is a game. there is no such thing as "irreversible damage". SE has made things in this game one way, then come back and reversed them later on.

Such as?

"Bent out of shape" is an idiom meaning to get needlessly and excessively worried. Which is what you're doing by making silly accusations like "job points are going to become so necessary to everyone that they're going to start quitting in droves".

Don't put things in quotes that I didn't say. Also you're still attacking me personally with baseless assumptions and adding nothing to the conversation. Seriously that's all you ever seem to do is personally attack people you disagree with. Is that why you're here? Try not being a jerk and actually have a conversation. You can do that, right?

[Kensagaku]

Be sure to stretch properly before performing such intricate mental gymnastics. A person who has a couple hours to play in an evening decides they'd like to work on JPs. There's no parties so they decide to solo. In their two hours of play they don't even get 1 JP. After doing this a few times with no relief in sight they get frustrated and either give up on JPs, thus giving themselves less to do in game and defeating the purpose of JPs, or they quit. Sound healthy for the game? To me it doesn't.

Bwuh? They need to ask the community for better camps then. Just recently I've been shown a camp in the Woh subgates that is quite handy; using two Capacity ring charges (one right as I was logging off to maintain the buff but tick down the cooldown, one after the first wore), on my DRG/RDM I had gotten two JPs in about 50 minutes, give or take. While my Dragoon is my "main" job so to speak, it's a little behind in gear, since I use my BLU for most things solo and I'm usually on GEO for my linkshell events. While I'm not running around in sparks gear, I'm not 5/5 AF1/2 119, no RME, and I don't have "uber" pieces like +1 avatar rings. I have some Delve boss gear (Yaoyotl Helm, Upukirex, and K'ayres Ring come to mind), but for the most part if I have a moderately good Dragoon and can hit 2 JP in an hour with some tactical Capacity Ring usage, then a casual player should be able to get at least a single job point in their "two hours of play" provided they are pointed in the right direction. So progression should always be there and present.

It's kind of funny, I keep seeing counter-arguments about this sort of thing. For a long while it was "I don't want to play the 'pray for your drop' game, I want to see at least some sort of progression, even a little at a time!" Okay, here's job points. You earn a little CP doing things all over, from Unity to Incursion, even in Dynamis if you farm (former) DCs you'll get some small amount. Lookie, general progression that adds up over time. People wanted to build things up over time, rather than hoping they get a chance at some form of upgrade, be it gear or, in this case, small bonuses to their character. Yet now that this content is available, people are complaining about wanting easier, faster ways to get it, when it's already a fairly easy system even solo. Farm CP at Kamihr Drifts or Marjami Ravine if your gear isn't quite up to date, do RoE objectives such as reives (especially with the WKR campaign going on!). Once you get your gear/skills up, progress to the subgates; Dho is quite inviting with a nice fly/worm camp right at the entrance of the subzone and and Eft/Fly/Crab camp a bit further in, and it's not far from the Yorcia Skirmish entrance. Woh subgates has a fantastic bat camp in the SW corner for piercing jobs, one that I personally enjoy.

I know this is a slight tangent to the overall purpose of the thread, but my point is that while they originally promoted JPs to be unnecessary, small boons (and indeed, in the end many of them are), as they become more relevant (the suggestion that spells and such would come from them) there are also many more ways to earn them. I'm far from capped on my jobs, but that's because I get bored going and EXPing solo. I still have the ability to progress myself, as long as I'm willing to take up some of my time. While I would have liked it better had they not tied new abilities to JP, and just made them small boosts to improve a job you highly enjoy, at least even if they become more relevant I know I am able to keep up and progress with it, because they've made a fairly wide range of options to do it with.

[Protey]

So my opinions are just as good as anyone else's? Sweet! Thanks!

You're welcome. Mind you, opinions are just that... opinions. They have no weight. Only facts do.

this is a game. there is no such thing as "irreversible damage". SE has made things in this game one way, then come back and reversed them later on.

Such as?

Here is one recent example:

Greetings,

While keeping game balance in mind, we do not have any plans to introduce items that combine elemental gorgets, belts, grips, etc. By separating them by element, we were able to give them very powerful effects, and the team would like you to switch out your equipment if you wish to receive effects from different elements.

Since we've been making adjustments to weapon skills, the timing is just about right for a way to combine all of your elemental gorgets, obis, and belts, so the team will be exploring the ways in which to make this happen.

[Zarchery]

Be sure to stretch properly before performing such intricate mental gymnastics. A person who has a couple hours to play in an evening decides they'd like to work on JPs. There's no parties so they decide to solo. In their two hours of play they don't even get 1 JP. After doing this a few times with no relief in sight they get frustrated and either give up on JPs, thus giving themselves less to do in game and defeating the purpose of JPs, or they quit. Sound healthy for the game? To me it doesn't.

Yeah, they don't get a good rate of job points in the limited time they have, so they do something else. They're still getting their 12 bucks a month worth, and people who do have more time and are also interested in job points also get their 12 bucks a month worth.

Don't put things in quotes that I didn't say. Also you're still attacking me personally with baseless assumptions and adding nothing to the conversation. Seriously that's all you ever seem to do is personally attack people you disagree with. Is that why you're here? Try not being a jerk and actually have a conversation. You can do that, right?

I'm being perfectly civil, aside from my initial statement about whining because you can't cap job points while asleep. You're taking maximum umbrage because you're stubborn and have a major league chip on your shoulder. But there's only so much restraint that can be shown when you're being as obdurate as you are. Unless your idea of having a conversation is just having other people fawn over you and tell you how brilliant your ideas are.

I was paraphrasing this post when you got all huffy and started insisting that because people can't do one particular piece of content because they're too busy, they'll be too bored to play (instead of just doing the dozens of other pieces of content). Then you just said the same thing again in the very same post I'm replying to right now.

Please explain, right now, why anyone should have to go about obtaining job points if they don't have time or don't want to. And don't give me some nonsense like "Square Enix might make content that requires them". Because until a lot of people start including "must have this job point ability" or "must have this many job points" that's a strawman.

[Byrth]

It's easier to change something before it has been implemented than afterwards, so your insistence on current conditions is inane.

[Protey]

I don't even see why people are even complaining about the possibility of some content requiring JP/Gifts. If you can't do that content because you don't have them, so what? Back at 75 cap days you couldn't do HNMs if you were still stuck at level 70 because you hadn't beat Maat. JPs are just another form of level progression (albeit a very very minor progression atm). Get your levels that are needed if you want to do some whatever made up content that doesn't even exist yet. As it stands right now there is no such content. If it were up to me though... new content would be made ridiculously harder compared to content that is out now. Stuff is way too easy. I miss the epic CoP battles. I want to have fights where you can't just stun the NMs TP moves, but actually have to come up with a strategy to beat them. If it gets to a point where we need to have JP/Gifts, so be it. If you don't have them.... tough, don't come to the content or figure out a way to do the content without them. Heaven forbid you have to use your brain to figure out how to get past a difficult situation.... it's almost like we're playing a game.

[Afania]

Be sure to stretch properly before performing such intricate mental gymnastics. A person who has a couple hours to play in an evening decides they'd like to work on JPs. There's no parties so they decide to solo. In their two hours of play they don't even get 1 JP. After doing this a few times with no relief in sight they get frustrated and either give up on JPs, thus giving themselves less to do in game and defeating the purpose of JPs, or they quit. Sound healthy for the game? To me it doesn't.

2hr of playtime a day= casual, .

A couple of hours to play in the evening isn't casual, it's probably 4 times more hardcore than me. I play around 30 min a day, 5~6 days a week and I have farmed hundreds of JPs with no problem. If someone with 2hr of playtime a day has "limited playtime", I don't know what to say. Perhaps we have POV toward being casual?

2hr of playtime is also more than enough to make a CP pt, mind you. I've done a plenty of 1hr CP pt np.

You said ppl can't get 1 JP in 2hr solo, serious? Sounds like exaggerating. That's like less than 15k CP/hr, which is much lower(like 1/3 or 1/4) than most avg solo CP rate without double CP campaign according discussion on forums. In fact certain job/setup/camp can probably solo 90k~100k/hr np without campaign bonus now.

You don't like JP grind, I get it. But why do you need to exaggerate the solo CP rate/hr just to win this internet argument? Further more, ever since JP introduced I've never heard of anyone quit BECAUSE JP takes time. If you can't cap JP due to the lack of playtime, go do something else.