Next R/M/E Update

[Protey]

R/E/M needs a massive overhaul to begin with.
First and foremost, HMPs need to be obtained from more places.
Every VWNM should drop either several plates or a pouch. Chance of pouch varies on the tier, so if you are fighting a sandy T1 NM it is like 1% and if you are fighting Pil its like 10%.
Final stage of Empy should not be 3000...

Mythic weapons just need to be redone from scratch.
Never forget when these came out, it was the biggest laugh and still is.
Some have weird and obnoxious WS modifiers and others are just plain useless.
Alexandrites... this is the most discussed problem in R/E/Ms along side HMPs. 30,000 is beyond a joke. Make it 10,000 and increase ways to obtain slightly.
These are just some quick thoughts, i would love to go deeper but time is money!

i have no problem with it being 30,000 alexandrite. strangely enough, i get 30,000 in roughly the same time it takes me to do 50 assaults + 150,000 tokens from nyzul.

[machini]

i have no problem with it being 30,000 alexandrite. strangely enough, i get 30,000 in roughly the same time it takes me to do 50 assaults + 150,000 tokens from nyzul.

I'm currently putting together a mythic, and helping a friend make their second relic. From my point of view, the problem with mythics is that they are the only choice for ToAU and Wings jobs these days.

Non 119 weapons are useless in 119 content. COR, PUP, DNC, and SCH cannot equip Relic weapons, for reasons. Empyrean weapons are so stupidly hard to get to 99 to 119 them due to 1500 HMP and the other requirements they have to get past 90. So for those of us who have not been playing continuously since the game launched and do not have maxed gil and were not able to do Nyzul, Salvage, and Voidwatch when those were the end game hot content, we have neither the money for Empyrean weapons, nor the saved up ichor and tokens so many other people seem to have (or claim to have.)

One person I spoke to a month or so ago said that Mythics weren't hard because he could just go and straight up buy all the alexandrite he needed, or would except for the cat's eye he has rotting in his storage, and that he has plenty of ichor and tokens to make one, he just doesn't need one. While I am somewhat dubious as to his claim, I have heard other, similar things from other players who have been playing for the better part of a decade, and were able to do this content back when it was the hot stuff and so have amassed a good deal of the required currency.

Furthermore, let's compare what it takes to make the REM weapons.

I have four friends who are helping me with the mythic, and we are also helping one of those people with a relic, and then will be rotating through people to do more relics.

A relic requires ~18,000 currency (I like round numbers because math is hard.)
We average ~330 currency per person per day we do Dynamis together, even if we have to compete for spawns with others, as we have become exceedingly efficient at this.
That's ~1600 currency per day. Which is 12 days to make a relic. Or, at least, to get all the currency to make one. So, working together, the five of us can make a relic in as long as it takes to do the in game waits for the stage turn ins.

A mythic requires 150,000 Tokens, 100,000 Ichor, 30,000 Alexandrite, and recompleting all 50 assaults. Not even gonna get into the ZNM stuff.
We seem to be able to start on floor 96 of Nyzul and do 10 floors reliably. If we alternate who spends tokens to start it, that's ~3500 tokens per day. So that's 43 days of Nyzul for the tokens require. It's slightly less if you include the arm band, but not significantly less. The easiest way to get ichor would be the five of us and a mule doing T3 einherjar. So that's just under 2000 ichor per day, so just over 50 days of doing Einherjar to get all the ichor required. Then there's recompleting all the assaults, and, assuming you get no failures, that's 50 days. As to the alexandrite, 5 people averaging about 100 Alexandrite per day is 60 or so days to get all 30,000 Alexandrite. Salvage and Einherjar can be done concurrently with assault, but Nyzul and other assaults all require tags, which you get one of per day. So it takes ~93 Tags, and therefore ~93 days, to get all the assault and nyzul done. So it takes 93 days to do a single mythic.

I'm not even going to get into Empyrean as that's just too depressing.

But to compare, it takes us ~2 weeks to pop out a relic and ~3 months to do a mythic (minimum). This is with FIVE people working together. So a relic we make takes about 120 man hours to make. A mythic would require about two hours per day of effort just for Nyzul/Assault, Einherjar, and Salvage. So a mythic for us will have required 930 man hours to make. Which is just under 8x as long in terms of total effort invested.

Now, that is with five people. Solo, I can get about 250 currency per day pretty easily, more if I actually make an effort. So 18,000 currency at 250 per day is 72 days, or 144 man hours to make. To make a mythic solo would require about three hundred days of effort to get all the alexandrite solo doing salvage, and five other people's help to do Einherjar. So ~100 days of assaults/nyzul and ~300 days of Salvage comes out to ~530 man hours to make, spread over almost a whole year. So in the time it takes someone to make a mythic solo (assuming they can get bodies for einherjar, and ignoring ZNM stuff), you can make almost 4 relics, solo, in the time it takes to make one mythic.

Considering the relative power levels of relics to mythics, and the fact that, on my server at least, some jobs are considered trash no matter how well they are geared, mythic or not, relics are either too easy to get or mythics are too hard to get. Which hits COR PUP DNC and SCH harder than the other pre-Seekers jobs, since they cannot use Relics and Empyrean are even harder to get (and not as good).

I guess the tl;dr: of this would be that mythics are stupid hard for anyone who has not been playing this game for a continuous decade, and I think that people who have been playing this game for that long and have stockpiles of all the non-seekers currencies forget that other players don't have the same resources and lose sight of how ridiculously hard it is to make mythics.

So either make Ichor and Tokens more easily obtainable, via either AMAN Currency Exchange or just increasing the amount received, and either lower the alexandrite requirement or drastically increase the drop rate.

I eagerly await the flaming, as it's very cold in my room.

[Protey]

We seem to be able to start on floor 96 of Nyzul and do 10 floors reliably. If we alternate who spends tokens to start it, that's ~3500 tokens per day. So that's 43 days of Nyzul for the tokens require.

I guess the tl;dr: of this would be that mythics are stupid hard for anyone who has not been playing this game for a continuous decade, and I think that people who have been playing this game for that long and have stockpiles of all the non-seekers currencies forget that other players don't have the same resources and lose sight of how ridiculously hard it is to make mythics.

10 floors? really? urdoinitwrong. i go 2x DD + brd and get to floor 15 - 20, starting at 96. that's 20 to 25 floors. getting anywhere between 8k and 10k tokens. If you take more than 3 you'll get a penalty, but that's your choice. You still should be getting way more than 10 floors done.

And no, even though I have made 5 mythics I did not have any stored currency. It takes roughly 69 days at 8k tokens a day to make a mythic (assuming you already had captain).

The only hard part really about doing mythics is getting people to do a few of the assaults with you that are unsoloable. The rest is just a grind. In comparison, empyreans are easy solo, relics are easy solo, and ergons are easy solo... at least while people still do delve so you can get your plasm. Most of REME are just a grind and not difficult. They only become difficult when you have parts that you can't solo and there aren't others readily willing to help (assaults, and one day delve). You at least have a group willing to help you so you should be thankful for that at least.

[machini]

10 floors? really? urdoinitwrong. i go 2x DD + brd and get to floor 15 - 20, starting at 96. that's 20 to 25 floors. getting anywhere between 8k and 10k tokens. If you take more than 3 you'll get a penalty, but that's your choice. You still should be getting way more than 10 floors done.

And no, even though I have made 5 mythics I did not have any stored currency. It takes roughly 69 days at 8k tokens a day to make a mythic (assuming you already had captain).

The only hard part really about doing mythics is getting people to do a few of the assaults with you that are unsoloable. The rest is just a grind. In comparison, empyreans are easy solo, relics are easy solo, and ergons are easy solo... at least while people still do delve so you can get your plasm. Most of REME are just a grind and not difficult. They only become difficult when you have parts that you can't solo and there aren't others readily willing to help (assaults, and one day delve). You at least have a group willing to help you so you should be thankful for that at least.

Would you mind telling me how you get the Ichor? Last time I checked, Einherjar has a six player minimum.

As to Nyzul, we have not done five man nyzul yet. We've done three, and we can't do more than 10 floors reliably. Just can't figure it out.

'cause honestly, at this point, we've wracked our brains and researched everything we could find on how to do these things as quickly and efficiently as we can, and we can't seem to get it going any faster.

[machini]

Furthermore, could you please explain to me how you get 30k Alexandrite in 69 days? Considering you'd have to be getting 434 alex a day to do that. So, either you're running salvage on multiple characters, you're buying alex, or you're cheating to be able to rerun sections of salvage.

[Protey]

Furthermore, could you please explain to me how you get 30k Alexandrite in 69 days? Considering you'd have to be getting 434 alex a day to do that. So, either you're running salvage on multiple characters, you're buying alex, or you're cheating to be able to rerun sections of salvage.

i do 2x salvage a day, and yes i have more than one character. and yes i buy alex. and no i don't cheat.

[Protey]

Would you mind telling me how you get the Ichor? Last time I checked, Einherjar has a six player minimum.

As to Nyzul, we have not done five man nyzul yet. We've done three, and we can't do more than 10 floors reliably. Just can't figure it out.

'cause honestly, at this point, we've wracked our brains and researched everything we could find on how to do these things as quickly and efficiently as we can, and we can't seem to get it going any faster.

ichor: it does not have a 6 player minimum, though i recommend with at least brd + blm or brd + blu. if you go with less than 6 you only get 10 minutes to complete... which is plenty of time.

nyzul: BRD does marcato victory march + advancing march + paeon 5 + paeon 6. my brd has carnwenhan so songs last just shy of 10 minutes. the 2 DD go /war and use movement speed gear.