Please nerf monk and samurai so other DDs can play

[Camiie]

Pretty much yah, This is an MMO, not a fairytalehappyendingRPg.

Yes it is an MMO. One important aspect of MMO development is maintaining class balance. FFXI has nothing of the sort.

Unless you just make every job undistinguishable from the other job by means of nerfing everything unique about them down to a code of basic damage (FFXIV), there's no way to perfectly balance 22 jobs, there just isn't, especially not in a way to make them all useful all the time for all events.

They don't have to be indistinguishable. They can be different from each other yet still be effective in their defined roles. To think otherwise is to lack imagination and ignore character archetypes that have existed since before the dawn of electronic gaming. The nimble rogue can make things just as dead as the hulking barbarian. He just does it in a different, but no less effective, way.

Perfect balance is impossible, I'll give you that, but they should at least strive for it rather than allowing the majority of jobs to languish in mediocrity or worse.

And its not entirely Squares fault here, a lot of these events can be done without bandwagon jobs, but the reality is people want efficiency, you may love playing DRg or BST or something, but other people love getting sh*t done and finishing quicker.

So the events can be done without bandwagon jobs, but the only way to "get shit done" is to use bandwagon jobs? I see...

I personally love THF, its my favorite RPG job in any game, and I rarely get to play it in XI, it doesn't make me love the job any less, I just do what I can on it (Solo old content like Salvage II or Dynamis).

So what's fine with you should be fine with everyone? I guess the person who wants to use his THF to stab the biggest baddest monsters in the game to death is wrong to want such things? I think he should be free to do so, while you seem to think he should be happy he's limited to years old content.

This game isn't about "I WANNA PLAY MY JOB! WAAAAH", frankly SE has come out and stated they have no intent to make content clearable by any and all job combinations, and thats the smartest thing they've done in my eyes.

So the smartest thing they've ever done is throw up their hands and admit their laziness and lack of creativity when it comes to battle content and job balance. Well I guess it is good to know one's limits.

There are some jobs I think need updating, but you're playing an MMO lady, your favorite job is not always going to be wanted in certain events, and sometimes very few at all, Especially in an MMO where all you need to do to switch jobs is walk into your mog house and cycle through a menu. I'm sorry if this is not what you people want to here, but this is what an MMO is, I for one will take having to play THF in mostly old content over having every job being a bland carbon copy of eachother with the only differences being the name of their abilities and the stat mod that goes into them.

No that's what FFXI is. Most MMOs aren't that way or at least not to that extreme. Sorry to break your illusion that the FFXI way is the common way.

Nerfing MNK or SAM won't help, the next bandwagon job will be found and if you're not that you're not playing, this is the fault of the community most of all, not the developers, we cannot deny SAM and MNK are powerful, but again, nerfing those don't mean you'll be desired on any job you wanna play, it just means the next bandwagon job will pop up, period. Its irrational and stupid to think otherwise.

Again, I'm sorry, this game has a job change system, if you feel you only want to level one job cause its your 'FAVVY', you have no one but yourself to blame when your job isn't wanted. I used to only have THF and SMN, now I have all jobs except RNG, GEO, and RUN... I don't enjoy BRD, but I enjoy doing events, so I find fun in it where I can, because I knew this coming into the game.

I don't agree with nerfing MNK or SAM either. I too have multiple jobs leveled, but I refuse to level a job I know I won't enjoy because that defeats the purpose of this being a game. I do accept the consequences of that and I'm not nearly as stupid as you want to make me out to be with your rather condescending response.

I just think it's utterly ridiculous that in a group based game so many jobs have nothing to offer a group no matter how much work is put into those jobs. Yet somehow I'm the unreasonable one for daring to think such a thing.

[Karbuncle]

Yes it is an MMO. One important aspect of MMO development is maintaining class balance. FFXI has nothing of the sort.

Most MMOs do this by blanding every class until they're distinguishable by nothing more than their clothing, yes almost all new age MMOs. This is the only way to easily "Balance" a large variety of classes. Most new MMOs also only really have to balance a handful of classes, not 22. Balancing 22 classes is not easy, and SE hasn't done a terrible job a it, Its just the community sniffs out the job that does 0.1% better overall and they use that and only that.

Perfect balance is impossible, I'll give you that, but they should at least strive for it rather than allowing the majority of jobs to languish in mediocrity or worse.

I wanna know which jobs you perceive to be in such a bad position right now if you don't mind me asking. No sarcasm here, I can think of maybe a few but I wanna know which ones you feel are in dire need of adjusting.

So the events can be done without bandwagon jobs, but the only way to "get shit done" is to use bandwagon jobs? I see...

In the players eyes? the communities eyes? yes.

So what's fine with you should be fine with everyone? I guess the person who wants to use his THF to stab the biggest baddest monsters in the game to death is wrong to want such things? I think he should be free to do so, while you seem to think he should be happy he's limited to years old content.

Nope, that part was to express how just because you or I want something, doesn't mean its the communities voice. Expressing that we are simply a small minority voicing our opinions here. That went over your head I guess.

So the smartest thing they've ever done is throw up their hands and admit their laziness and lack of creativity when it comes to battle content and job balance. Well I guess it is good to know one's limits.

You almost grasped the concept in your sarcastic second sentence there. They know their limits and they know the community, balancing all content around 22 jobs perfectly is stupid and impossible.

No that's what FFXI is. Most MMOs aren't that way or at least not to that extreme. Sorry to break your illusion that the FFXI way is the common way.

FFXI has always been different, its from an Era of time when MMOs were diverse, not WoW Clones, I personally chose to continue playing FFXI for this very reason. I like FFXI for what it is, yes it has flaws in class balancing but most jobs are balanced well, the only obtusely unbalanced one right now i think is SAM, which is leagues ahead of any other DD... and I think that could be adressed in some way.

I just think it's utterly ridiculous that in a group based game so many jobs have nothing to offer a group no matter how much work is put into those jobs. Yet somehow I'm the unreasonable one for daring to think such a thing.

I'm just saying these jobs DO offer something, its that the community has figured you DD job A offers 2% more than DD job B, so DD job B is "Useless". Its. the. Community.

Any event today can be beaten with DRG, PUP, BST, etc DD's, theres threads and forums of all pet jobs (BST, SMN, PUP) Beating Ark Angel Difficult fights... Its not impossible, the community just wants to take the "Good bandwagon" job and thats it. Plain and simple. Some jobs are lacking its true, but not enough to make them useless or unusable.

[Olor]

Balancing 22 classes is not easy, and SE hasn't done a terrible job a it, Its just the community sniffs out the job that does 0.1% better overall and they use that and only that.

Dude, if BST was 0.1% behind SAM, you'd get no arguments from me that things were close enough. Heck, like I've said over and over - if a fully buffed average BST could do 90% of the damage of a fully buffed average SAM in the same party - I'd be willing to call that close enough. That's a way bigger gap than what you're suggesting is the case here - come on, we all know that the gap is way higher - probably more like 70% at best for a fantastic BST versus an ok SAM.

Having certain jobs suck isn't variety, sorry, it just isn't. It just makes the game more samey. Never get to play on anything but the same handful of better jobs. The gaps are too big, and before you say "start your own parties" - no, just no, you look like a moron trying to start a party while playing a subpar job. You pretty much would have to have a mythic for people to even consider letting you play a job like BST in any kind of serious content. That's not variety - that's poor balancing and crummy game design.

I'm not asking for the game to be XIV. I like this game better, but I feel less and less compelled to log in when the only thing I ever get to do in groups is play bard (love bard but it's nice to switch it up). That I feel "lucky" that one of my jobs is even in demand at all when I have several, is problematic.

Increasing the strength of jobs that currently suck will just make non cookie cutter set ups more viable. I fail to see how that reduces variety.

[Afania]

Dude, if BST was 0.1% behind SAM, you'd get no arguments from me that things were close enough. Heck, like I've said over and over - if a fully buffed average BST could do 90% of the damage of a fully buffed average SAM in the same party - I'd be willing to call that close enough. That's a way bigger gap than what you're suggesting is the case here - come on, we all know that the gap is way higher - probably more like 70% at best for a fantastic BST versus an ok SAM.

Having certain jobs suck isn't variety, sorry, it just isn't. It just makes the game more samey. Never get to play on anything but the same handful of better jobs. The gaps are too big, and before you say "start your own parties" - no, just no, you look like a moron trying to start a party while playing a subpar job. You pretty much would have to have a mythic for people to even consider letting you play a job like BST in any kind of serious content. That's not variety - that's poor balancing and crummy game design.

I'm not asking for the game to be XIV. I like this game better, but I feel less and less compelled to log in when the only thing I ever get to do in groups is play bard (love bard but it's nice to switch it up). That I feel "lucky" that one of my jobs is even in demand at all when I have several, is problematic.

Increasing the strength of jobs that currently suck will just make non cookie cutter set ups more viable. I fail to see how that reduces variety.

If you think the reason why you're stuck on BRD is because your jobs are too weak, then you're delusional. Even if they buff BST THF BLU to 110% of SAM, you'd still have to play BRD if you have BRD just because....someone needs to play BRD and it's usually ppl with BRD leveled.

[Karbuncle]

Having certain jobs suck isn't variety, sorry, it just isn't. It just makes the game more samey. Never get to play on anything but the same handful of better jobs. The gaps are too big, and before you say "start your own parties" - no, just no, you look like a moron trying to start a party while playing a subpar job. You pretty much would have to have a mythic for people to even consider letting you play a job like BST in any kind of serious content. That's not variety - that's poor balancing and crummy game design.

I wanna say you took the 0.1% comment entirely too literally and shoved it so far up contexts ass that context cant even find it anymore. It made me dizzy.

Anyway, I didn't say anything about jobs sucking, never used the word "This job sucks", I'm saying not every job is in as terrible a position as some people think. BST used to have its place, as a solo/duo thing, and it can still do events like AA's just fine (hint hint did you even try to read the part where i said BST/SMN party beat AA difficults? I've even beaten the ToAU Hard mode Wivre-rider dude on Difficult with Pet jobs only)

Understandably, you probably want to do more damage? Why? If you don't do as much as SAM go away is the communities look still, and if you do end up doing as much as SAM, then what? You have an OP DD Job with a pet who can still do damage weakened by sending the pet in and be completely safe from AoEs, unlike any other DD job. BST, and all pet jobs, are tough to balance because as SE says they have disposable minions, giving them too much power means other DD jobs wont be wanted, too little and well... I think you know what happens there, you're in it.

Still I'd argue If you yourself were put together with a SAM who received good buffs, and you yourself received the same buffs + COR Pet rolls, I bet you+Your pet would come closer to that SAM than you realize. And no, I'm not talking a Mythic SAM as thats an unfair comparison unless you yourself were a Mythic wielder. Its how we play the jobs that makes them gimp, Buffs are aimed toward player DD, but there are pet DD buffs.

Still, if you've read this far before breaking apart my post and throwing it back at me with context as far away from the blast radius as possible, I want to say... I agree BST is in a shit position. It used to have Solo/Duo even up to Abyssea era... It used to have Dynamis but now with I.lv gear THF is better... BST has no godly place in FFXI right now outside of "Pet Burns", and don't get me wrong, you can do Pet Burns on most events, but thats not enough...

Anyway, I already admitted SAM is far and above way to overpowered right now... I just don't see how you can fix that without a huge nerf to SAM or a huge buff to other DDs... and If we buff other DD's we're just inching ever closer to "Casual Fantasy XI: Come cap gear in 3 days"

Oh and another FYI, if you think I'm advocating PUP BST remain useless then you didn't read what I wrote. I said PUP BST needs to be useful, but not in a way to make them getting the same advantage as DD.

BLU is a perfect examples of how a job that's way behind SAM in terms of dmg but still useful. Saying more dmg = more balance is one of the laziest way to balance jobs.

All people ever want is "I WANNA DEW MORE DAMAGES"....

This question is to you Olor, For BST, how do you think you can make it more useful? Aside from "MOAR NUMBERS"