Please nerf monk and samurai so other DDs can play

[Olor]

I'd love to see the responses from a good 90% of the community if the next update was the following:

*We have released content specifically catered to pet jobs. It provides ilvl119 gear that is better than some of the alternatives. In order to do this you will have to have leveled and geared a job that only 2-3% of the playerbase have.

*This gear is better for all jobs, including some of the more popular jobs. You will have to level PUP and BST to get it.

People would crap themselves.

Anyway, I am really mystified by this argument that PUP and BST are not DD. The game has roles. Party members are supposed to fill those roles. Guess what role BST and PUP take up in a group - DD - they CAN'T FILL any other role in ANY content that matters. Can they help a bit with some things? Well PUP can help cure a bit but BST... nope. The ONLY thing it CAN do is deal damage. There is NO OTHER ROLE for it. Since it is a sub-par damage dealer - it is not welcome in content. The end. Full stop.

[Afania]

...I wasn't saying PLD/NIN was viable or even used, I'm saying that NIN as a tank has no tools that aren't available via subjob, despite it constantly being called a tank by the developers. I think I've been very, very polite during this. I haven't attacked you personally or anything similar, so I'd appreciate it if the same consideration was taken by you.

Again, I play the game, I wasn't saying PLD/NIN is used, nor RUN/NIN.

And like you've already said, I'm tired of going around in circles.

"Not wanting to take your argument seriously" isn't a personal attack though. It's against the argument, not person. When you make argument that's obviously ignoring the game mechanic, like "RDM is functionally useless", I honestly can't counter the argument besides "I can't take your argument seriously".

That's more polite than using the word troll.

If today I pop on the forum and make a point that's so far away from reality, such as "PUP can do double amount of dmg of SAM", besides not taking it seriously what else are you gonna do?

[Balloon]

"Not wanting to take your argument seriously" isn't a personal attack though. It's against the argument, not person. When you make argument that's obviously ignoring the game mechanic, like "RDM is functionally useless", I honestly can't counter the argument besides "I can't take your argument seriously".

That's more polite than using the word troll.

If today I pop on the forum and make a point that's so far away from reality, such as "PUP can do double amount of dmg of SAM", besides not taking it seriously what else are you gonna do?

You misrepresented what I was saying. I wasn't trolling. I wasn't saying PLD/NIN has a place in endgame. I was saying that NIN has no few tools that can't be subbed to mitigate damage.

Up until a few updates ago I wouldn't say RDM was useful, either.

[Malithar]

I support FFXI's design direction, I want dev to enhance it and stick with it. I don't want every job to be SAM No.2, I don't want everyone to play 1 job and stick with 1 job only. If certain jobs are useless, dev should create more situation that favors it or give it some unique advantage, instead of directly increasing the dmg.

I don't want the design goal to change because that's why I like FFXI.

Mostly agree with Afania, would rather see diversity in the game rather than every non-mage or tank doing comparable DPS to a Sam. With that said, there's only so many situations you can create to be useful. Blu has it's utility setup fairly well, stuns, terrors, a few decent status effects, great soloing capability, etc. In that sort of frame, how do you create unique situations that only a Bst or Pup can be useful? Adds? CC them, have a DD take care of them, let them swarm the group and spam Curagas, etc. Unique effects that only they can provide that are required? Great, now we get a DD type job that does a good bit less than optimal DD in order to handle a gimmick.

So what could they do? I'd side with what's been said and make them more comparable to a DD, not the same, but closer. SE said they wished to make Pet job + pet > a pure DD. Logical, since they've gotta gear/care for themselves and their pet, and if the pet dies, they'd be back to being sub-par. Alternatively, they could just balance it out a bit, make pet job + pet < pure DD, but only at around say 90%, to account for their additional abilities when it comes to soloing, attacking 2 mobs, etc.

End of the day, a pet job still takes the role of a DD, there is no unique "hybrid" slot when it comes to parties. Sure, you may slot in a Dnc, Rdm, Blu, Thf, etc in order to gain something from them for a specific fight (Haste Samba to cap delay reduction/backup Waltzes/Steps, Haste/Flurry/Distract/Frazzle II, stuns/terrors, TH respectively), but they're still capable of respectable DDing, but Bst and Pup bring nothing of this sort to a party. For all intents and purposes, they are a DD job, and they fail to reach the standards that players have come to expect of a DD job.

[Afania]

Anyway, I am really mystified by this argument that PUP and BST are not DD. The game has roles. Party members are supposed to fill those roles. Guess what role BST and PUP take up in a group - DD - they CAN'T FILL any other role in ANY content that matters. Can they help a bit with some things? Well PUP can help cure a bit but BST... nope. The ONLY thing it CAN do is deal damage. There is NO OTHER ROLE for it. Since it is a sub-par damage dealer - it is not welcome in content. The end. Full stop.

I wasn't asking for content that SAM BRD WHM can't do, I was asking for a situation that SAM BRD WHM can still perform just fine, just less efficiency than pet jobs. Like how SAM can't farm dyna more efficient than THF.

By your logic hybrid job/jack of all trade jobs shouldn't exist in MMO, ever. Because there won't be a real reason to create a hybrid job.

Although it's often a fact that hybrid classes suffer in most MMO, being a big fan of hybrid jobs in MMO, I believe it's dev's job to create a unique function for hybrid jobs, instead of pigeonhole every class and turn them into 1 role only.

Since FFXI isn't a raid only MMO, I think FFXI has plenty of opportunity to do that.

[Balloon]

Mostly agree with Afania, would rather see diversity in the game rather than every non-mage or tank doing comparable DPS to a Sam. With that said, there's only so many situations you can create to be useful. Blu has it's utility setup fairly well, stuns, terrors, a few decent status effects, great soloing capability, etc. In that sort of frame, how do you create unique situations that only a Bst or Pup can be useful? Adds? CC them, have a DD take care of them, let them swarm the group and spam Curagas, etc. Unique effects that only they can provide that are required? Great, now we get a DD type job that does a good bit less than optimal DD in order to handle a gimmick.

So what could they do? I'd side with what's been said and make them more comparable to a DD, not the same, but closer. SE said they wished to make Pet job + pet > a pure DD. Logical, since they've gotta gear/care for themselves and their pet, and if the pet dies, they'd be back to being sub-par. Alternatively, they could just balance it out a bit, make pet job + pet < pure DD, but only at around say 90%, to account for their additional abilities when it comes to soloing, attacking 2 mobs, etc.

End of the day, a pet job still takes the role of a DD, there is no unique "hybrid" slot when it comes to parties. Sure, you may slot in a Dnc, Rdm, Blu, Thf, etc in order to gain something from them for a specific fight (Haste Samba to cap delay reduction/backup Waltzes/Steps, Haste/Flurry/Distract/Frazzle II, stuns/terrors, TH respectively), but they're still capable of respectable DDing, but Bst and Pup bring nothing of this sort to a party. For all intents and purposes, they are a DD job, and they fail to reach the standards that players have come to expect of a DD job.

This is what I've been saying, I don't really think that 'hybrid' jobs serve a purpose in a game that has little content to support them. Rather than have content that shoe horns them in I'd rather see a move towards content that can be done by everyone. I don't want most of those jobs to supersede the 'pure' dd classes, but I want it so that if I were to go on puppetmaster, I wouldn't be performing so much worse than the rest. I wouldn't even mind if shouts remained the same, because at least then I could set my own up with the lesser used jobs.

I've loved to see them address the disparity between Bards and other buffers, I feel that's a good move in the right direction.

[Afania]

Blu has it's utility setup fairly well, stuns, terrors, a few decent status effects, great soloing capability, etc. In that sort of frame, how do you create unique situations that only a Bst or Pup can be useful? Adds? CC them, have a DD take care of them, let them swarm the group and spam Curagas, etc. Unique effects that only they can provide that are required? Great, now we get a DD type job that does a good bit less than optimal DD in order to handle a gimmick.

So what could they do? I'd side with what's been said and make them more comparable to a DD, not the same, but closer. SE said they wished to make Pet job + pet > a pure DD. Logical, since they've gotta gear/care for themselves and their pet, and if the pet dies, they'd be back to being sub-par. Alternatively, they could just balance it out a bit, make pet job + pet < pure DD, but only at around say 90%, to account for their additional abilities when it comes to soloing, attacking 2 mobs, etc.

End of the day, a pet job still takes the role of a DD, there is no unique "hybrid" slot when it comes to parties. Sure, you may slot in a Dnc, Rdm, Blu, Thf, etc in order to gain something from them for a specific fight (Haste Samba to cap delay reduction/backup Waltzes/Steps, Haste/Flurry/Distract/Frazzle II, stuns/terrors, TH respectively), but they're still capable of respectable DDing, but Bst and Pup bring nothing of this sort to a party. For all intents and purposes, they are a DD job, and they fail to reach the standards that players have come to expect of a DD job.

IMO delve2 NM can't be terrored is a wrong decision BLU could have been a lot more useful with terror on T5 and erasega on Wopket. Elitists till gonna SAM all the way but it's a perfect alternative for pt with weaker support. Even without recent spell adjustment BLU is still pretty good in foret if you go with PUG WHM, terror and erasga on megaboss can help a lot.

I'm not sure if we should classify hybrid jobs like THF, DNC, BLU, COR, SCH, RDM and GEO into DD or not. Technically any job that can do dmg is DD, but if those jobs are classified as DD then we'd fall in the situation Olor talked about: It's a job that do less dmg than SAM so it's not welcomed.

Pretty much all the above job has a use with their current output though, except DNC thanks to COR/DNC being a superior alternative.

This is what I've been saying, I don't really think that 'hybrid' jobs serve a purpose in a game that has little content to support them. Rather than have content that shoe horns them in I'd rather see a move towards content that can be done by everyone. I don't want most of those jobs to supersede the 'pure' dd classes, but I want it so that if I were to go on puppetmaster, I wouldn't be performing so much worse than the rest. I wouldn't even mind if shouts remained the same, because at least then I could set my own up with the lesser used jobs.

I've loved to see them address the disparity between Bards and other buffers, I feel that's a good move in the right direction.

If a game with no hybrid job is what I want to play I wouldn't quit FFXIV year ago lol.

Edit: BST SMN worked as CC job/hateless DD job years ago, it's just not much to CC atm. I remember my LS had SMN and BST for lv 75 Odin. Ppl used to use PUP to kite nuke solo, which is something only PUP and COR can do, but PUP can do it better than COR.

[Teraniku]

Rangers are the most broken job in the game at the minute. That's not really even talking about rangers, though, that's an enmity issue.

Let's not nerf, let's just actually get some balance in there. I remember when every other word was balance.

I remember the days when RNG rivaled BLM in damage and was a viable replacement for one...

[WoW]

Some/most may disagree with this, but I am not going to agrue about it, just my opinion; but hopefully, in the near future, this tank, healer, blah blah will be obsolete. Find new ways for players to interact with one another; aka, play how you what to. Imo, this is part of the problem; healer, dps, tank, and some jobs that are caught in between.

[elqplau]

Rangers are the most broken job in the game at the minute. That's not really even talking about rangers, though, that's an enmity issue.

Let's not nerf, let's just actually get some balance in there. I remember when every other word was balance.

Lol most broken lmao..
RDM as a starter job was your PLD now its less than any job in the game how bout unnerphing RDM to be as it was in 2003