I think I'm finished; a new player's final thoughts

[bungiefanNA]

To the OP

I don't post very often on here, but after reading your initial post, I can tell you what your first and most critical mistake was. You chose to play on Asura server

Asura is known to be the server with the most hardcore players and is not friendly towards newer or casual players. I truly believe that if you had started on a server that had a more laid back attitude and is friendly towards new/returning/casual players, your FFXI experience would have been much more enjoyable.

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxi/comment...l_new_players/

Actually, Asura has a good new players linkshell or two. It's the official Reddit FFXI server. He just had to look for people to join a shell with. Feedback on that shell seems to be very good lately.

[Aezelas]

The question becomes: why do people play an MMORPG? For what reason would someone pick up FFXI?

I can guarantee you that the majority of people do not go MMORPG hunting for a good story (and thus, do not enjoy sitting there doing missions all day). The story is a nice thing to have, but people do not find FFXI and go "wow, this game looks like it has a good story, I'm gonna try this MMORPG." People play for a variety of reasons, the biggest probably is to play with friends.

That may be why FF11 still has a community. It's different in many ways, and you seem to look for something another MMO would offer.

So now, I began my journey into Adoulin, once again asking these same questions. What is skirmish? Why should I do it? Where are the missions? How many of these coalition assignments should I do? What is bayld for? What's a reive? What should I be doing out here? Why are people fighting the random mobs, is it for exp? Are there quests I should be doing somewhere from some random NPC? What are these weird items I'm getting? Yes, once again: none of it is explained in game. I was able to answer some of those questions by looking at the wikis and stuff, but others, I still have no idea.

That's not quite true. I'm pretty sure things are a lot more explained ingame in Adoulin than it was for any other expansion.
You simply have to talk to different npcs, and it's not like there are tons of them. Most of the quests and missions are pretty much straight forward, not requiring a lot of effort.
And most npcs show what items you can get participating to the events they're related to.

When Adoulin was released, Wiki had little info. We had to figure things out, we got explanation from npcs themselves and i enjoyed not rushing into anything.
If you really feel like you're in a hurry, or if there's somthing npcs weren't quite clear about, you still have the solution the ask questions ingame, to ls members or even through shouts. People would answer your questions.

As an example, you said you had to figure out that Abyssea is the best place to level post 75.
Could have shouted what would be the best place for that, you would have had an answer in like 5 seconds.

You're complaining that nothing is explained for that Aby part either. What do you want exactly? A pop-up window you would read for hours as soon as you enter the zone?
There are npcs at base camp, explaining a few things. And once again, ask questions in game. Ask questions to those you're partying with, who would tell you about lights, xp chain, time extensions.
In the worst case, you'd find out yourself what happens if you run out of time. Big deal.

Actually that's how the game was designed in the first place, precisely as a MMO. Players would share information and tips.
It still works really well. Despite what some people may say about Asura, you'll still find helpful players, i'm guessing as many as you would in any other server.

[Vivivivi]

To the OP-

Very insightful perspective in todays FFXI. And I can't disagree with many of your sentiments. Unfortunately it seems that the game isn't focused on attracting new players, but rather is focused on keeping current players and potentially drawing back old players.

I'd like to share a few tips from when I started out (3 years ago), which even then people found it strange to see a legitimately new player lol.

I like you, started out with a couple friends, which I highly recommend. What was nice about that is we really didn't know about end game and took at least a month to get to rank 6. We took our time doing missions, leveling jobs and trying to figure out ways to make gil (yagudo beads and crystals XD ). Eventually we stumbled on what we'd later learn are some end-game activities like voidwalker NMs, Abyssea, etc. After getting to Jeuno and interacting with other players, we got invites to a couple social linkshells and went from there.

I didn't have sea access for limbus events, didn't know the first thing about Dynamis, and was afraid to venture into Abyssea. Why'd I stick around? 2 reasons– I really loved the story in FFXI, I'm not really into other MMOs, but I am a die hard Final Fantasy fan. I also really enjoyed interacting with all of the players I met. While I would encourage any new player to stick with the game, I totally understand the frustration with how long it can take to get access to, and get geared well enough to participate in the current end game content, and in the games current state, even with trust npcs, records of eminence gear, etc. It can still take a long time.

[Xantavia]

For someone like me, I do not enjoy doing nonstop fetch quests; especially when they hold absolutely no difficulty, and they take an extraordinary amount of time, often for no real reason. It is a large time dump. Chains of Promathia was a major offender here. The majority of the quests involve absolutely no combat, and when they do involve combat, it lasts for about 10 seconds and then it's back to running somewhere again. Yes, that's because it's easy now, but either way, it's still boring, especially alone. At some point, I would've loved to go and do it just to see the story, yeah, sure. The problem is that I don't have a choice. I have to do all of this stuff (Zilart, Promathia, Aht Urhgan) for various reasons just to be able to do the content everyone else is doing. And NONE of those 3 things involve me playing with friends or anyone else. Going through Promathia with a friend is not an interesting experience; it's just you both doing it at the same time, no different than you both playing the same single player game across the room from each other.

Did you wait until you were at level cap before doing these missions? CoP battles were designed for characters 30-75. If you did it at 99, of course the fights were over in 10 seconds. It strikes me similar to complaints in other games about people grinding to the highest levels, then saying the game is too easy. And if you have friends, do the older content together. You want to do what everyone else is doing, but seem to overlook that if you did stuff with friends, it wouldn't really matter what everyone else is doing.

[Lithera]

Exactly, Xantavia. At 99 most of the old fights is stupid easy but go do say the CoP Diablos fight at 75 he will still whoop your butt if you don't stun nightmare. The diremites below him if you get knocked off or fall down will still do the same. Even the fight against Tenzen is still a slight challenge at 75 or even 80. Doing these at 99 would be like going to a beginning area in any other FF title at max level and expect to have a five minute fight vs a level ten mob. It is just not going to happen.

[Valhoola]

I'm not saying I didn't enjoy the time I spent in FFXI. I wouldn't have played it for an entire month if I didn't enjoy it, but my god... the things this game put me through. Not going to recap, you can press the PAGE-UP key for that.

As for the question, yes, I played both.

I quit WoW a long time ago after playing every expansion up until Pandaland, got bored in Pandaland because of daily extravaganza and quit.

I'm still subbed to FFXIV (legacy 180 day sub), sitting in Revenant's Toll as a full item level 90 SMN. Bored, nothing to do, not entirely enjoying how WoW clone it is, but that's a discussion for another time/topic.

reason i came back to this game. im a legacy player in FFXIV only need to get fsh, cooking, alchemy to lv50. only need acn relics. WoW clones are not my cup of tea.

i still take this game over anything else on the market i have more freedom in this game. i think its the graphics that are the biggest turn down for FFXI since the game is going on 12 years old.

[Demonjustin]

i think its the graphics that are the biggest turn down for FFXI since the game is going on 12 years old.

I have had a lot of friends I have tried to get into FFXI, not one of them complained about graphics really, it was always the learning curve and the time it took to get into the game. I know some people will be deterred by the graphics, just, by the reactions of people I know and the reactions of most people I have met, it seems like it goes far beyond the graphics alone.

[AppropriateName5786]

That may be why FF11 still has a community. It's different in many ways, and you seem to look for something another MMO would offer.



That's not quite true. I'm pretty sure things are a lot more explained ingame in Adoulin than it was for any other expansion.
You simply have to talk to different npcs, and it's not like there are tons of them. Most of the quests and missions are pretty much straight forward, not requiring a lot of effort.
And most npcs show what items you can get participating to the events they're related to.

When Adoulin was released, Wiki had little info. We had to figure things out, we got explanation from npcs themselves and i enjoyed not rushing into anything.
If you really feel like you're in a hurry, or if there's somthing npcs weren't quite clear about, you still have the solution the ask questions ingame, to ls members or even through shouts. People would answer your questions.

As an example, you said you had to figure out that Abyssea is the best place to level post 75.
Could have shouted what would be the best place for that, you would have had an answer in like 5 seconds.

You're complaining that nothing is explained for that Aby part either. What do you want exactly? A pop-up window you would read for hours as soon as you enter the zone?
There are npcs at base camp, explaining a few things. And once again, ask questions in game. Ask questions to those you're partying with, who would tell you about lights, xp chain, time extensions.
In the worst case, you'd find out yourself what happens if you run out of time. Big deal.

Actually that's how the game was designed in the first place, precisely as a MMO. Players would share information and tips.
It still works really well. Despite what some people may say about Asura, you'll still find helpful players, i'm guessing as many as you would in any other server.

Everquest 1 still has a community. What is your point?

Nothing in this game is straightforward, and if you think it is, you may need to play another (any) game/MMO for a bit and get out under that little rock you live under. I can bet you anything that no one in this thread would be happy about another mission/quest that is like ZM11 (looking for Maryoh Comyujah). If they say they did it the way SE intended the mission to be done and intensely enjoyed the "story" of this mission, and you believe them, I have a bridge to sell you.

Asking about aby can get players to point you in the right direction, but if they don't explain clearly, you will have to spam shouts/yells (which a truly new player won't know how to do or where to do it) about which npc to talk to and which maw to enter and then wonder why you can't enter the maw again after you're kicked out. Where in the game does it show you any of that? Everything that is updated is put onto the forums/official site, which means that you cannot find it in the game. As you can tell from how dead these forums are, most CURRENT players don't even use the forums, much less new players, who wouldn't know where to look on these convoluted sites (i.e. the forum site is a different site from the official site, which is also different from the account management webpage).

You may not empathize with new players and expect them to "ask, ask, ask," but it's simply not viable and you are taking a LOT for granted. Not only does it paint the player as a helpless, needy newbie (that this game's elitist playerbase doesn't want to touch with a 10-foot pole and may ostracize in future events) or assume that he will understand everything right away, it is also impractical and frustrating. I was not a new player and even I was overwhelmed in aby with understanding cruor/lights/fluxes/trophies/bastion etc. Now you expect a new player to understand lights/fluxes/keys/seals/crests/bayld/conquest/assault points/ancient beastcoins/sparks/imperial standing/tokens/allied notes/kinetics/plasm/resistance credits/cruor/dominion notes/battle trophies/traverser stones/voidstones/etc? Who's really being unreasonable here?

Any why did I say it was impractical? Let's say there is a mission in Castle Oztroja and you get a cutscene upon entering, and no clues about what follows, but the next part is just up the stairs. Do you expect the new player to go back to a city, ask, wait for a response, then run back to Castle Oztroja to run back up the stairs maybe up to 2 hours later than he otherwise could have? He might not know about warp scrolls and he probably won't know that Jeuno has linked chat but the 3 cities don't because, once again, there is no indication from the game. Or do you expect him to find one of those holier-than-thou "newbie-helpers" that always toot their own horns on these forums (because, clearly, they have made a HUGE difference in the game and we all know 100 of them) to give them info on demand and teach them how to use a wiki and what info to look up? Not very realistic at all. A WoW-style pop-up window with some clear hints would be a godsend in this game.

And please don't ever bring up how this game was "designed in the first place." I could elaborate on how idiotic that statement is, no matter who it comes from, but it has been said by many others before on this and every other ffxi forum.

[Afania]

Everquest 1 still has a community. What is your point?

Nothing in this game is straightforward, and if you think it is, you may need to play another (any) game/MMO for a bit and get out under that little rock you live under. I can bet you anything that no one in this thread would be happy about another mission/quest that is like ZM11 (looking for Maryoh Comyujah). If they say they did it the way SE intended the mission to be done and intensely enjoyed the "story" of this mission, and you believe them, I have a bridge to sell you.

Asking about aby can get players to point you in the right direction, but if they don't explain clearly, you will have to spam shouts/yells (which a truly new player won't know how to do or where to do it) about which npc to talk to and which maw to enter and then wonder why you can't enter the maw again after you're kicked out. Where in the game does it show you any of that? Everything that is updated is put onto the forums/official site, which means that you cannot find it in the game. As you can tell from how dead these forums are, most CURRENT players don't even use the forums, much less new players, who wouldn't know where to look on these convoluted sites (i.e. the forum site is a different site from the official site, which is also different from the account management webpage).

You may not empathize with new players and expect them to "ask, ask, ask," but it's simply not viable and you are taking a LOT for granted. Not only does it paint the player as a helpless, needy newbie (that this game's elitist playerbase doesn't want to touch with a 10-foot pole and may ostracize in future events) or assume that he will understand everything right away, it is also impractical and frustrating. I was not a new player and even I was overwhelmed in aby with understanding cruor/lights/fluxes/trophies/bastion etc. Now you expect a new player to understand lights/fluxes/keys/seals/crests/bayld/conquest/assault points/ancient beastcoins/sparks/imperial standing/tokens/allied notes/kinetics/plasm/resistance credits/cruor/dominion notes/battle trophies/traverser stones/voidstones/etc? Who's really being unreasonable here?

Any why did I say it was impractical? Let's say there is a mission in Castle Oztroja and you get a cutscene upon entering, and no clues about what follows, but the next part is just up the stairs. Do you expect the new player to go back to a city, ask, wait for a response, then run back to Castle Oztroja to run back up the stairs maybe up to 2 hours later than he otherwise could have? He might not know about warp scrolls and he probably won't know that Jeuno has linked chat but the 3 cities don't because, once again, there is no indication from the game. Or do you expect him to find one of those holier-than-thou "newbie-helpers" that always toot their own horns on these forums (because, clearly, they have made a HUGE difference in the game and we all know 100 of them) to give them info on demand and teach them how to use a wiki and what info to look up? Not very realistic at all. A WoW-style pop-up window with some clear hints would be a godsend in this game.

And please don't ever bring up how this game was "designed in the first place." I could elaborate on how idiotic that statement is, no matter who it comes from, but it has been said by many others before on this and every other ffxi forum.

There's a difference between "different design direction" and "flawed design". Different design direction= aiming to provide different playing experience, even though it may not be enjoyable by everyone. If you "fix" different design direction, it no longer provide the same experience. Flawed design= In a game aiming to provide certain playing experience, if you "fix" the flawed design, it still provide the intended experience, just in a much easier way.

I've played plenty of MMO that requires less research and asking questions in game, I don't find the questing aspect that much more enjoyable than FFXI nor less, tbh. It feels different, it's easier, but it also feel a lot more like just following the instruction like a robot and a lot of reading that's not related to the story(thus less immersion and so on), and the pop-up window doesn't feel like part of the gameplay. It's not "better", it's just "different".

Not providing information via pop up window or ! on the mini map, and have to ask questions in game, seems like a flawed design, but it really isn't. I'm not defending for it nor saying it must be like this forever(unlike my stance on Mythic), I don't care whether it's "fixed" or not, it didn't affect me that much in past a couple of years anyways. But whether you like it or not, it is a direction that provides different playing experience. In a game with pop-up window everywhere, although everything is easier and faster, you also have to read pages and pages text that doesn't belong to part of the gameplay, and it feel like following a guide and less like doing research in another gameworld.

What is a flawed design? One good example is macro system. In order to swap every gear slot besides weapon, you need 3 macro buttons. However, if you click 3 macro buttons in capped haste situation, you ended up doing less dmg. I never swap ammo slot on melee and just full time the same thing, because in order to swap ammo slot, I'd have to make 3 macro button and ended up doing less damage. 2 button is the most I can handle without being super gimp.

That makes current macro system a flawed design. The design direction is to have players have 5 set of gears and swap them for everything, which isn't a flawed direction. But having to use windower or don't swap everything if you want to WS fast enough is a flawed design. Fix macro system to 1~2 click for every swap, still provide the same gear swap experience, thus macro system is a flawed design.

Having to spend 20 min job change between event is also a flawed design. Having job change system or having to lv multiple job to participate in every content isn't a flawed design, just different design direction. Having to spend 20 min to change job is flawed design, fix this flaw you can still experience job change gameplay experience.

Having to communicate with other players/NPC for info, or the lack of pop-up window itsn't a flawed design, just different gameplay experience from hand-holding everything. Not knowing which NPC to click for info may be a design that needs improvement, which may be solved by better NPC placement, or different storytelling technique/different CS dialogue. But having a pop-up right in front of my face while I'm playing the game, solve the issue by heading toward another design direction, and not necessary the best solution. ARR had one million pop-ups with pages to explain stuff, everytime I have to stop my gameplay to read them. Would be cool if they explain stuff in game as part of the gameplay experience.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Not providing information via pop up window or ! on the mini map, and have to ask questions in game, seems like a flawed design, but it really isn't.

"To have her father's breastplate repaired by Ranchuriome, Miaux needs you to find an Altepa polishing stone."

That's right, boys and girls: your job is to go out into a desert that spans two zones and find a particular rock in a sea of rocks. Good luck!

EDIT: And this is only after you happen to meet the stringent requirements necessary to flag this quest to begin with!