FFXI R/M/E Thoughts:

[FaeQueenCory]

RME should continue to have upgrades via Trial or Quest, however; it shouldn’t be like it was building it to level 99. While building my Relic, it sat in my Mog House Storage unless being upgraded, then, right back in there. It was only until level 75 I ever actually equipped it, and not because it was viable, but because the Trials said, “Hey kill stuff with this gimp weapon ‘X’ amount of times using the unlocked Weapon Skill”. Only at level 90 did it become viable; here is where I think a good change could be made.

The level 99 R/ME/s could be upgraded via the new content, I’d be doing the same things all the other players are doing for the new content gear and weapon, but those same methods could be used to further upgrade the weapon’s stats. So I’m not all alone soloing in Dynamis or Abyssea for example. I’m actually playing and doing content with the other players; already a much more enjoyable thought.

I agree. I actually made a post about continuing Magian trials into iLvs....
But it didn't get a huge amount of positive feedback... because I don't think ppl were remembering that you upgrade REMs via that...............
And Daemon showed up to say that continuing them into iLvs would make ppl not make REMs anymore... cause... that makes sense. 9_9

I would actually prefer this over what they are doing (making the 99 and 99-2s tiered to be equal to 119 Delve weapons for Mythics, and equal to 113 upgradeable Delve gear/skirmish +1s for Empys and Relics. Roughly.).
Because mechanically... unless they also make the 99s to actually HAVE the iLv... and not just be the same numbers... (this includes the "fake" skill but I'm pretty sure that was always a given that they'd be given that too) You'll see a bunch of mechanical gimpness.
The hardest hit would be the BST and DRG.... Because their pets are dependent upon their weapons having an iLv.
But DRK, BLU, and any other hybrid that I'm overlooking would also feel the pain from no longer having the "fake" melee skill help determine their Macc, which is something that only happens when the weapon actually HAS an iLv... if it just had "fake" skill... the math would still be using the basic 99 calculations... which doesn't include the "fake" skill Macc thing.
So even if the REMs get the "fake" skill... it wouldn't help any job that needs that for their Macc. Because it's ignored by the calculations due to a lack of iLv.

So, personally, I'd prefer some simple trials "have a bottle of translucent slurry" or "get 50 basic drops from mobs in Adoulin".... but none of this thousands nonsense.

[Anjou]

Here's what people are looking for:
-Assurance that many, many (many) hours of effort making existing RME are not wasted.
-A reason to make new RME (which would help to revive the economy by giving people something to buy and sell, would revive currently dead content, and most importantly gives people something to do).

How powerful SE decides to make RME and how easy the upgrades are remains to be seen. What I'm personally looking for is an across-the-board adjustment that makes competitive or slightly better than Delve mega boss weapons. I think that making them much weaker or much stronger than Delve weapons would be a mistake.

Because then the ole "RME ONLY" thing will return to FFXI, and the more casual playerbase is gonna get shunned from content is RME's are made too powerful over Delve weapons.

I mean no disrespect to an RME holder (As a matter of fact I'm building Annihilator -my first relic ever-) but come on, the only version of ultimate weapons that deserves to be shockingly powerful are Mythics, -because- look at the prerequisites for them. Gotta kill the kings, gotta beat all of the assault missions, beat all of TOAU, beat the snot out of Einherjar/Nyzul and Salvage, and let's not get started on the 30k Alexandrites.

Relics are just time consuming, they are not -hard- anymore, empyreans is just farming the popsets for the bosses over and over, which is again not -that- hard.

Mythic is legitimately hard still with finding people to do assaults with, to do einherjar and not get booted or murdered in T3 by the bosses.

I say this

Relics and emps be on par with delve boss weapons, and mythics should be slightly more powerful than all of them.

Everyone can be happy that way.

[Demon6324236]

I agree, and since Mythics most likely will never become any kind of common, no real fear of Mythic only requirements with people, since there are only a handful of them around compared to R/Es.

[detlef]

Relics are clearly the easiest and cheapest weapons to make, but when you take 95/99 into account, Empyreans aren't much easier to make than Mythics.

[Shaiera]

I can agree with Mythic weapons being the most difficult; before the level cap raised Relic weapons were no walk in the park either; I knew players that took 4 to 5 years to make a Relic. Now Relics have become much easier than they once were, now that you don’t need an entire alliance to get currency.

Mythic I think, no matter what the time frame, has always been the most difficult to obtain; however, they’ve always been relatively equal to one another in stats– most R/M/E weapon options to the same weapon type are relatively equal in stats.

Looking on FFXIAH, I can see without question Mythic are still very difficult to obtain, however I will have to disagree with Relic being easier than Empyrean. Relic took the players that achieved it pre level cap a few years to obtain. Also, you can stay in Abyssea all day unlike Salvage or Dynamis which are static time frames; you can see a lot more Empyrean weapons created than Relic, even with Relic having had a few years of a head start. I personally found making my Verethragna easier than making Spharai, though not much easier.

References:

Empyrean Weapons:
http://www.ffxiah.com/relics/empyrean

Relic Weapons:
http://www.ffxiah.com/relics

I honestly would like to see Mythic acquisition revamped to be a bit more realistic, I love a challenge but I can’t help but think on the super rare occasion that I see one should I say congratulations for making it or congratulations on winning the mog bonanza. I don’t mean that disrespectfully to those that have earned a Mythic, you’re amazing for doing it; I just mean to say I can’t imagine myself having one unless I won the bonanza (lol).

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Conclusion:

Which is more difficult to obtain really doesn’t matter at all. What does matter is that Relic, Empyrean, and Mythic shouldn’t be out-classed or even made obsolete by weapons that take only a couple weeks to get. Also variety is awesome, does every single class need to go for the same one and only one weapon because “it da best”? I like to see variety in characters and gear, having unique play-style and skills. It’s a much better picture than everyone going for the same one weapon and same one armor set.

There needs to be more to look forward to and do beyond just Delve – Dev. KEEP R/M/E~!!!

[Anjou]

I can agree with Mythic weapons being the most difficult; before the level cap raised Relic weapons were no walk in the park either; I knew players that took 4 to 5 years to make a Relic. Now Relics have become much easier than they once were, now that you don’t need an entire alliance to get currency.

Mythic I think, no matter what the time frame, has always been the most difficult to obtain; however, they’ve always been relatively equal to one another in stats– most R/M/E weapon options to the same weapon type are relatively equal in stats.

Looking on FFXIAH, I can see without question Mythic are still very difficult to obtain, however I will have to disagree with Relic being easier than Empyrean. Relic took the players that achieved it pre level cap a few years to obtain. Also, you can stay in Abyssea all day unlike Salvage or Dynamis which are static time frames; you can see a lot more Empyrean weapons created than Relic, even with Relic having had a few years of a head start. I personally found making my Verethragna easier than making Spharai, though not much easier.

References:

Empyrean Weapons:
http://www.ffxiah.com/relics/empyrean

Relic Weapons:
http://www.ffxiah.com/relics

I honestly would like to see Mythic acquisition revamped to be a bit more realistic, I love a challenge but I can’t help but think on the super rare occasion that I see one should I say congratulations for making it or congratulations on winning the mog bonanza. I don’t mean that disrespectfully to those that have earned a Mythic, you’re amazing for doing it; I just mean to say I can’t imagine myself having one unless I won the bonanza (lol).

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Conclusion:

Which is more difficult to obtain really doesn’t matter at all. What does matter is that Relic, Empyrean, and Mythic shouldn’t be out-classed or even made obsolete by weapons that take only a couple weeks to get. Also variety is awesome, does every single class need to go for the same one and only one weapon because “it da best”? I like to see variety in characters and gear, having unique play-style and skills. It’s a much better picture than everyone going for the same one weapon and same one armor set.

There needs to be more to look forward to and do beyond just Delve – Dev. KEEP R/M/E~!!!

They are keeping RME, the update is in November to boost their power, however if it goes back to the old "RME ONLY" thing for players to do content, I'm going to be honest and say I will quit this game, I finally get to do endgame content (Across the entire spectrum) and if I get shunned, I'm sorry but I want nothing to do with the community after that point.

[Dragonlord]

They are keeping RME, the update is in November to boost their power, however if it goes back to the old "RME ONLY" thing for players to do content, I'm going to be honest and say I will quit this game, I finally get to do endgame content (Across the entire spectrum) and if I get shunned, I'm sorry but I want nothing to do with the community after that point.

This is not a black and white as you are making it out to be. The reason the community went "REM onry" during VWNM era is because they were the only comparable weapons at that time, except for the few super-rare VWNM drops like borealis. In this instance, REM users were fair margin above others. However, this margin was miniscule compared to the massive jumps between ilvl weapons. So really, that problem is only more pronounced now. Bringing REM up just over the power of the top tier ilvl weps will not turn the community back to "REM only" mentality because there will be comparable alternatives. Of course, there's always ignorants and idiots that will only want the best and shout for hours on end for the top grade, but that can't be helped regardless of game design.

[predatory]

This is not a black and white as you are making it out to be. The reason the community went "REM onry" during VWNM era is because they were the only comparable weapons at that time, except for the few super-rare VWNM drops like borealis. In this instance, REM users were fair margin above others. However, this margin was miniscule compared to the massive jumps between ilvl weapons. So really, that problem is only more pronounced now. Bringing REM up just over the power of the top tier ilvl weps will not turn the community back to "REM only" mentality because there will be comparable alternatives. Of course, there's always ignorants and idiots that will only want the best and shout for hours on end for the top grade, but that can't be helped regardless of game design.

This. Back when Delve first came out there were people yelling for NNI but only wanting Delve geared players to attend, my response was to /yell right back how did you do NNI before Delve? And why Do NNI if you're Delve geared anyway?"

[FaeQueenCory]

They are keeping RME, the update is in November to boost their power, however if it goes back to the old "RME ONLY" thing for players to do content, I'm going to be honest and say I will quit this game, I finally get to do endgame content (Across the entire spectrum) and if I get shunned, I'm sorry but I want nothing to do with the community after that point.

Don't worry. It won't be REM only anymore.
Mythics will be roughly equal to the 119 delve boss weapons.
Empys and relics will be the next tier lower: equal to the augmented delve drops, 113. (and I supposed Skirmish +1s too)

So at worse you'll see Delve&Mythic only.
But most likely you'll be seeing DREMS DD. (Delve-Relic-Mythic-Empyrean-Skirmish+1)

And seeing as how RE and the upgradeable Delve and Skirmish+1 weapons will be roughly the same tier...
Only the most elitist will demand Delve <<Mega Boss>> or Mythic only. (though obviously there is a HUGE benefit for Delve runs to desire DmbM over the others... but most ppl will just ask for DREMS)

[Shaiera]

I feel there is more to consider here than R/M/Es being updated to the ranks of SoA. It’s not only comparing Months, some even Years, of time versus a couple days to a week of farming to get weapons. If it was only that to consider, the longer tougher journey should still yield the better rewards, otherwise what’s the point. If R/M/E were equal to Delve I’d only do Delve, it is way less work for the same thing as an example, and like most people I would take the path of least resistance for the same thing too.

Consider This:

1. If R/M/E remains top tier people will do those events needed to create them. Players can farm the various currencies for either making the weapon of their choice, or simply do it as a means to make them Gil to buy the other things they’d like to have. That would create/revive various markets. Interestingly enough it would create Jobs, or in game terms; create things to do besides only having the new content – SoA. I know guys that have paid to have two or more active accounts just to hit Salvage and Dynamis multiple times in a day, because they either were saving for something big or were bustin’ ass to get their weapon made faster. A lot of the more hardcore players are uninterested in a venture they can defeat in less than two weeks and all other endeavors they could choose to undertake currently have no point since 95% of the older content is useless gear currently.

2. R/M/E shouldn’t annihilate Delve or other weapons by a huge amount, I’d say approximately higher than 4% area but no larger than 8%. Somewhere in that area would be a good range, you go much higher than that, you create the stigma that you’re useless unless you have R/M/E and, to a point, that could be correct depending on the event. Going lower than that 4% would make the other avenue not worth the work. The 4%-8% is a general explanation of what I’m trying to describe; it can be calculated into the Base DMG, ACC, STR bonuses or whatever the instance, it’s a general point of reference to describe relation between Delve and R/M/E not to be taken in literal context. Possibly even having equal stats to Delve weapons just rework the built-in WSs and Aftermaths to where that is what makes them better; the bottom-line – make them better, but not so much that they’re the only thing you should be using.

3. Finally, you cannot get anywhere without knowing where you’re coming from; the vast majority of this games lifetime has been around building up gradually and slowly to greater things, not just R/M/E pre SoA. I mean equipment; things from a Faith Torque having +7 H2H-Skill versus a weapon having over +60 H2H-Skill on it. It’s not just about going back to make these weapons good again. It’s about a lot of the old content being relevant. I would do Campaign/Besieged if the things I could purchase were good and had a point, I would go to Sea if the mobs were up to level and offered a challenge with good gear options – what a breath of fresh-air that would be, to have 20+ events to choose from, all being relevant and offering good upgrades and opportunities, that sounds like a good game! From a programmers point-of-view that’s super easy to code a merchant’s purchasing table and increase the level on all the monsters in event zones. They should do that!

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Conclusion:

Development needs to stop pushing to the next big thing and remember – one of the core things that defined FFXI as a game is that it took time and effort for anything really worth while; there was NEVER a quick snap your fingers reward for anything. You had to earn you’re Inventory, Zone Access, Skill-Ups, Levels and Jobs.

Many players loved working hard and getting that big pay-off at the end of the journey. This new gear and equipment being shot out so fast you can’t even finish it before the next thing is out IS NOT fun and exciting, it’s insulting.

Again, looking back; it goes against the core principle of the games design; it teaches this, “Do only what’s quick and easiest to achieve, because doing anything that takes any long amount of time will be dated before you can even finish it, and its predecessor will be along within a few weeks. So you’ll need to be finished to start working on this next one.” (Can this be FFXI not World of Warcaft?)

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I personally loved earning my Black Belt, Faith Torque, and Spharai for examples. For years they were amazing and I spent many months (years) to obtain them all. When SoA hit and these weapons and gear came out, I originally said it was like a kick in the balls. I take that back; it was so much worse; a kick in the balls hurts like hell, but it’s over within a day or two. That was having 8 years of achievement obliterated in the blink of an eye. Presently when I get to thinking about it, that loss is still there. Many friends that I have quit FFXI because of that very same loss I’m describing. I would have rather been kicked in the balls…

Development, remember where we came from, that’s the only way to make smart choices on where we need to be going – quality over quantity; yes, please. Enough of this, “Oh, it’s been three weeks; lets release some new gear better than what we just released.” That’s not fun, not interesting, not exciding; it makes 90% of us players not want to do anything because whatever we start turns out to be a dated waste of time.