FFXI R/M/E Thoughts:

[Demon6324236]

I think that's it. But back when that was, Burtang was only 1pt less than Buramenkah. And no iLv had all that fake skill and power adjustment. So... it's not a very good idea at what we are gonna get.. but it's the only word on this we have.

Well that's the thing, the post your going off of is old, its impossible to really use that for any sort of accurate information, and I just wanted to point that out because I doubt that I was the only person who saw that and went looking for information I had missed.

And it so long ago that my iLvs are just a rough guide. I never said they were the end-all-be-all. Just a rough estimate of what they will be like. And in all honesty... I only said 113 out of convenience. R/E will more likely be closer to 115-117 or even as high as 118.
But the fact remain that R/E will be slightly below M/Ds in pure damage... not taking into accound WS damage... because then REMs should out perform Delve Mega Boss drops due to the whole +30% WS damage.
But this is all conjecture until we have a better roadmap.

I understand to a point what your saying, but at the same time, not so much, there are more variables than simply a DMG rating after all, and while you are continuing to act as though Burtgang will be better than Excalibur or Almace, your wrong.

Compare Excalibur to Burtgang, Burtgang has a high DMG because of its high delay, the delay on the swords were 233 & 264, while the DMG used to be 73 for both, really, it was a very unbalanced downfall to Burtgang, giving it nearly 15% more delay with the same DMG, which destroyed its overall DPS. This same idea goes with Almace, which had 70 DMG & 224 Delay, except it was properly balanced in a way, the DMG was lower, the delay was lower, all was well. I think the higher DMG on Burtgang is SE finally balancing them, not Mythics being better than Relics or Empyreans, but rather, the result of their example being only that selection of weapons, we would have a better idea of everything if we had a comparison to Murgleis since the delay of Murgleis is the same as the delay for Almace.

And as to mythics being situationally better.... the mage mythics pretty much are the best of the best because for what they do.
Relic staff is probably one of the crappiest of the REMs IMO.... a pure physical damage weapon with nothing that augments any of the abilities that the jobs that can wear it rely upon... Well... it's got that 8mp refresh thing... so... it's not 100% crap.
Even the Empy staff is 10000000x better... and all it does is give you a larger MP pool.
And for whm, Yagrush is still God. A whm with Tamaxchi and a Yagrush = king of whms.

So we can't even say that R/E > M for everyone... because mage jobs care more about magical augments than they do about phys DD.
But then, this is why it was always REMs at the top.
Because for a job-by-job look, one of the three is going to usually out perform the other.

Well that's part of the idea, while yes, they may take the most work, they are not really the best for many jobs, most which have a use are small uses here & there, but not close to perfect, most of the time you will be using something else, and only pull it out for some certain times. For instance, WAR was only for Mighty Strikes zerging, DRK was only for Absorbs, BLM was only for Meteor, the list goes on, they were situational pieces, where most of the time you would be seen using something else.

Mythics are intended to be the best.... though for some of them that intent was... not realized to say the least.
Relics and Empys are low-delay-high-damage weapons, so for phys DDs, they excel.

I agree mostly. I do not think so much that Mythics are meant to be the best, but more that they are meant to enhance the job more than the damage of the job. Relics & Empyreans are for all intents and purposes meant to make you kill things faster, but they hardly do much to enhance the job itself, which is the difference with Mythics, the only issue is that for over half the jobs in the game, the most important thing you do is your damage, so by not making it a focus even on the ones for DD jobs, they fall behind the others. I mean, making a GK for SAM that enhances Third Eye is cool, but, it has no job specific damage dealing enhancement, which puts it behind the others. WAR would be amazing, but the crit rate they give wasn't good enough after Abyssea came out to justify the use of King's anymore, Ukko's was just to good, and even Upheaval didn't make it better, only when you used Mighty Strikes did it win really. So in the end, I agree that Relics & Empyreans are meant to be high end damage weapons, but not so much that Mythics are meant to be the best, just that Mythics are meant to enhance the job.

If we REALLY must quibble over the iLv of R/Es.... then let's all agree on an arbitrary one. (115-117? 116? it's not 119)
Because as it stands right now.... we don't even know if they'll HAVE an iLv.
We want to believe they will.
We expect they will because that's just simple and good design.
But with no word.... and the simple fact that we are even talking about them having to be upgraded to iLvs in the first place... instead of it being a day-1-patch type thing....
Anything is up in the air.

Pray to Altana that they have iLvs... because we just don't know at this point.

Honestly, I cant see it happening where they do not have ilevels. The majority of people complaining made it clear that their being outdated was a slap in the face, but to upgrade their DMG without adding skill, levels, and other stats needed to make them feel as though they were truly upgraded... I honestly doubt SE would be stupid enough to do such a thing. I sadly know your correct, they could do it, and with SE, we never really know for sure, but at the same time, I have a hard time believing they could be so foolish, ignorant, or just flat out incompetent, in this matter.

It's not that they'll be required... no more so than they used to be required.
This update will just bring back the "REM only" shouts for stuff... which never actually left because I know on Odin we have "x Delve Mega Boss weapon only" shouts.
What this update should bring... is the opening up of Delve for more ppl.
For example, a MNK would not be excluded for having a 99/99-2 REM instead of an Oats.
Heck, they might even be FAVORED over Oats depending on how the WSs will factor in...
Ideally... this will make more content available to more people, and offer alternative paths to endgame gear: build a REM, get a Delve weapon, even skrimish+1s were added to offer more people more chances to get into PUGs.

In short, this should make DREMS the top of what weapons ppl will want from PUG members in their Delve runs.

I think the fact we will unlock Empyrean WSs will help as well, right now part of the reason people bring what they do is to help make sure enough damage is done to kill the NMs. Well, for now, we use WSs which are much weaker than what we could be using. MNKs use Shijin, not a weak WSs, but not Victory Smite. WARs have been nearly excluded from the content right now because Upheaval is basically half as good as Ukko's is, but when Ukko's comes back into play, it will burn with a blazing fury!

I think a lot of people overlook the fact that many jobs will become more powerful just by the fact we can unlock Empyrean WSs after the update, no matter what weapon they use, and that it will make things easier, which should help drop some restrictions for people so long as the leaders of the groups are smart, and not fools asking for things they don't need, like the people who still want 4 song BRDs and such.

[Tennotsukai]

Umm...random question: Was it ever literally stated by SE of how we will be able to obtain our Empy WS's on other weapons? People are telling me 90 Empy, but I am not finding that info anywhere. I also read something about 99 WoE weapons on bgwiki. I've been working on some 90 empy's the last month and would hate to see that time go wasted, like most of my time on this game.

[Demon6324236]

From what I know its either one, 90 Empyrean or 99 WoE, either one works so far as I know, but it has never actually been said on the English forums by a rep, I think it was said on the JP forums only.

[zataz]

in the words of the almighty camate

In regards to Walk of Echoes weapons, these were implemented with the concept of allowing players to use the specialized empyrean weapon skills, so instead of revamping them we felt it more appropriate to have them serve to unlock the weapons skills (planning to have restrictions based on jobs and level). Also, we are looking into adjustments for the method to create Walk of Echoes weapons.