Rune Fencer Merit Ability List

[Camate]

Greetings,

1. Physical damage mitigation
   Moving forward we plan on adding more equipment that reduces physical damage taken for all jobs, not only rune fencer.
   
   The fact that paladin is the job that is most apt to deal with physical damage will not change; however, our goal is to bring other jobs closer to where paladin is currently.
   
   Rune fencers are not supposed to be strong defenders against physical damage, and as such we have no plans to add stats that will make them like a paladin.
   
   
2. Comparisons to paladins with Aegis/Ochain
   When comparing magic defense between the current rune fencer and equipment to a paladin that is completely decked out, a paladin with Aegis will be better at reducing the magic damage of all elements. However, since rune fencer excels at elemental defense, they are also extremely strong towards status ailments in addition to elemental damage.
   
   Also, the effects of Aegis only apply toward the paladin, while rune fencers are able to spread the elemental damage reduction effect to party members making them extremely beneficial in party situations. When adding job-specific equipment to rune fencer moving forward, we will be paying careful attention to the balance between them and Aegis/Ochain and be making necessary adjustments.
   
   
3. Rune fencer stats
   We understand that there are aspects that make it difficult for rune fencer to act as a tank and players often see them as being in a support role instead.
   
   With the addition of the rune fencer merit point category as well as artifact equipment, we plan on making adjustments to make it more possible for rune fencers to tank and shine even more on the support front.
   
   These are not the only adjustments that will be made, so rest assured that we will continue to adjust this job.

[Zagen]

Physical damage mitigation
Moving forward we plan on adding more equipment that reduces physical damage taken for all jobs, not only rune fencer.

The fact that paladin is the job that is most apt to deal with physical damage will not change; however, our goal is to bring other jobs closer to where paladin is currently.

Rune fencers are not supposed to be strong defenders against physical damage, and as such we have no plans to add stats that will make them like a paladin.

First on the note of PDT gear for other jobs unless the developers are being obtuse every front line job can effectively cap PDT to swap into place as needed. Many of the front line jobs not only can cap PDT they can do it in a hybrid armor setup meaning the could keep the gear on a more full time basis than just swapping into it for "oh crap" moments.

As to bringing other jobs closer to PLD for physical damage mitigation: Are you actually trying to completely kill off the need for a PLD it's already very very small and RUN fills none of those reasons?

As to RUN not supposed to be strong against physical damage then unless the developers plan on adding monsters that do exclusive single element magical damage or a way for RUN to convert physical damage into magical damage you've killed the job's potential of being a tank for those few situations where a tank would be considered over a heavy melee damage dealing job.

[*]Comparisons to paladins with Aegis/Ochain
When comparing magic defense between the current rune fencer and equipment to a paladin that is completely decked out, a paladin with Aegis will be better at reducing the magic damage of all elements. However, since rune fencer excels at elemental defense, they are also extremely strong towards status ailments in addition to elemental damage.

Also, the effects of Aegis only apply toward the paladin, while rune fencers are able to spread the elemental damage reduction effect to party members making them extremely beneficial in party situations. When adding job-specific equipment to rune fencer moving forward, we will be paying careful attention to the balance between them and Aegis/Ochain and be making necessary adjustments.

The thing is there isn't a need for an additional aoe single element magic damage mitigation job. The job does poor damage when compared to an accepted heavy damage dealer and the specialty of reducing damage of magical damage is easily replaced by a WHM, SCH, BRD, and even COR. Now you could argue that RUN could compliment these job's abilities but the thing is these jobs are already going to be in the party meaning that you aren't taking a party/alliance slot to add their buffs but with RUN you will be doing just that.

As to the status aliment issue, that's great if it were actually true to the degree GEO's enfeebles work. In other words if RUN could 100% remove the chance of paralyze landing on the party or amnesia or any other enfeeble that could be deemed a threat to the party a WHM and various supports casting ~na/erase or DDs using Remedies or Panacea avoid the need to take up a slot on RUN.

Rune fencer stats
We understand that there are aspects that make it difficult for rune fencer to act as a tank and players often see them as being in a support role instead.

With the addition of the rune fencer merit point category as well as artifact equipment, we plan on making adjustments to make it more possible for rune fencers to tank and shine even more on the support front.

These are not the only adjustments that will be made, so rest assured that we will continue to adjust this job.

Actually when RUN (currently all new content) has difficulty acting as a tank the players leave it at home because it isn't worth losing a support role slot.

I really hope that the AF gives RUN a chance to tank but considering the responses in points 1 and 2 I won't be holding my breath. Merits were a step in the right direction but that's just it, they are a step and well you've got quite a few steps to go before it fills any role besides "fun job" or "abyssea tank", in either case both are useless roles when compared to the other jobs available.

As to fitting the "support role" unless you're planning on giving RUN a way to increase Attack, Accuracy, TP, Multi-Attacks, etc. it won't be filling a support role slot. Only helping mitigate magical damage when getting to 50% Magic Damage Taken isn't hard, where existing support roles can already offer the DDs a way to further mitigate magical damage while still providing damage dealing buffs isn't enough.

[Cljader1]

Greetings,

1. Physical damage mitigation
   Moving forward we plan on adding more equipment that reduces physical damage taken for all jobs, not only rune fencer.
   
   The fact that paladin is the job that is most apt to deal with physical damage will not change; however, our goal is to bring other jobs closer to where paladin is currently.
   
   Rune fencers are not supposed to be strong defenders against physical damage, and as such we have no plans to add stats that will make them like a paladin.
   
   
2. Comparisons to paladins with Aegis/Ochain
   When comparing magic defense between the current rune fencer and equipment to a paladin that is completely decked out, a paladin with Aegis will be better at reducing the magic damage of all elements. However, since rune fencer excels at elemental defense, they are also extremely strong towards status ailments in addition to elemental damage.
   
   Also, the effects of Aegis only apply toward the paladin, while rune fencers are able to spread the elemental damage reduction effect to party members making them extremely beneficial in party situations. When adding job-specific equipment to rune fencer moving forward, we will be paying careful attention to the balance between them and Aegis/Ochain and be making necessary adjustments.
   
   
3. Rune fencer stats
   We understand that there are aspects that make it difficult for rune fencer to act as a tank and players often see them as being in a support role instead.
   
   With the addition of the rune fencer merit point category as well as artifact equipment, we plan on making adjustments to make it more possible for rune fencers to tank and shine even more on the support front.
   
   These are not the only adjustments that will be made, so rest assured that we will continue to adjust this job.

First off Thank You Camate for the response, and I'll like to thank SE for the additions they made in the test server its definitely a huge step in the right direction. Physical damage reduce is not runs strength, however I like the idea of evasive tanking, especially with runs new ability with inspire to utilize shadows more efficiently than any job in the game. Battuta is for good crowd control and added protection to reapply buffs and shadows. With that being said I have a few criticisms below.

SE runs still gets raped by statuses, we do not have that much protection from mob inflicting a multitude of negative statuses on run. Secondly, under no circumstance should pld be better at mitigating magic damage over run, run should be hands down the best in this field of battle. Next Liement Ward needs to be adjusted, is should not wipe other wards like vallation and valiance. Vallation/Valiance with inspire is needed for tanking and Liement ward should not interfere with that but rather be a added benefit. Finally run could use more original magic, I would like to see run get new useful magic that it exclusive only to run.

[Zirael]

[*]Rune fencer stats
We understand that there are aspects that make it difficult for rune fencer to act as a tank and players often see them as being in a support role instead.

With the addition of the rune fencer merit point category as well as artifact equipment, we plan on making adjustments to make it more possible for rune fencers to tank and shine even more on the support front. [/list]

If I understand this correctly, you understand that RUN fails as a tank (if you fail to parry physical attack, you tear like toilet paper) and DD (Attack penalty to Resolution against strong enemies) and the best it could be used for is support role, namely, one job ability (Valiance: 3min duration, 5min recast), so you will give it buffs akin to SubtleBlow+25 to make up for it?

[Zhronne]

Greetings,
Physical damage mitigation
Moving forward we plan on adding more equipment that reduces physical damage taken for all jobs, not only rune fencer.

The fact that paladin is the job that is most apt to deal with physical damage will not change; however, our goal is to bring other jobs closer to where paladin is currently.

Rune fencers are not supposed to be strong defenders against physical damage, and as such we have no plans to add stats that will make them like a paladin.

Yai more inventory wasters! I'm so happy!

After the trend with Puppetmaster and after that SMNs, BSTs and what not it seems that SE wants to balance everything's that broken through gear.
Awesome, right?

[Yinnyth]

Thank you for addressing our concerns, Camate, but I get the feeling there a few things that the dev team and the EN playerbase don't see eye-to-eye on as far as runefencer goes.

When comparing magic defense between the current rune fencer and equipment to a paladin that is completely decked out, a paladin with Aegis will be better at reducing the magic damage of all elements. However, since rune fencer excels at elemental defense, they are also extremely strong towards status ailments in addition to elemental damage.

They should be strong to status effects, yes. If an enemy only does ice damage and the only status effects he inflicts are bind and paralyze, then awesome, RUN will do above average defensively against that enemy. Most enemies can inflict several kinds of status effects though, and RUN can't even reach 100% resist rate for 1 status effect from "even match" enemies.

The best cure for a status effect is a healer who spams -na spells regardless of whether or not the effect was resisted. The best cure for a large swathe of status effects is fealty.

And until RUN gets barlight and bardark, they're not going to be very good at blocking the status effects which really matter anyways.

Also, the effects of Aegis only apply toward the paladin, while rune fencers are able to spread the elemental damage reduction effect to party members making them extremely beneficial in party situations.

RUN has two abilities which affect party members: one for all and valliance. One for All does almost exactly the same thing that PLD's rampart does, minus the fact that rampart also gives defense to the party members. So valliance is the unique thing that RUN does which sets them apart from PLD. 3/5 minutes, we can reduce the damage taken from one element by 45%, provided valliance doesn't get dispelled.

There are 8 elements of damage, and most enemies make use of more than one. Because of this, it's hardly ever worth bringing a RUN along. The thing which makes RUN unique does not make RUN useful.

These are not the only adjustments that will be made, so rest assured that we will continue to adjust this job.

Now this is something we do agree on, and I'm ok with waiting. I'm just worried that things which prevent RUN from proving themselves useful to a group may not be seen as such by the developers.

[Rwolf]

[list=1][*]Physical damage mitigation
Moving forward we plan on adding more equipment that reduces physical damage taken for all jobs, not only rune fencer.

The fact that paladin is the job that is most apt to deal with physical damage will not change; however, our goal is to bring other jobs closer to where paladin is currently.

Rune fencers are not supposed to be strong defenders against physical damage, and as such we have no plans to add stats that will make them like a paladin.

If the focus is on keeping Paladin as the most apt to deal with physical damage, then why is Rune Fencer (the job that is advertised as a magical tank) not the most apt to deal with magical damage?

Bringing other jobs closer to physical damage taken -50% cap (which I'm not sure what job can't other than RUN) will not improve RUN's standing as a tank. It just makes it worse.

Currently Paladin is the most apt to deal with both forms of damage as they go beyond the damage caps and they still have almost complete status ailment resistance through Fealty, gear that stacks to reduce overall status ailments and access to support jobs with their native Enhancing magic skill to boost it further.

[list=1][*]Comparisons to paladins with Aegis/Ochain
When comparing magic defense between the current rune fencer and equipment to a paladin that is completely decked out, a paladin with Aegis will be better at reducing the magic damage of all elements. However, since rune fencer excels at elemental defense, they are also extremely strong towards status ailments in addition to elemental damage.

Also, the effects of Aegis only apply toward the paladin, while rune fencers are able to spread the elemental damage reduction effect to party members making them extremely beneficial in party situations. When adding job-specific equipment to rune fencer moving forward, we will be paying careful attention to the balance between them and Aegis/Ochain and be making necessary adjustments.

The comparisons to Paladin with Aegis/Ochain is valid.

1. Of course the community is comparing a "completely decked out Paladin" with the current Rune Fencer because they are providing feedback on what Rune Fencer needs in gear going forward to excel at elemental defense more than any other job.

2. You (the development team) concur that a Paladin with Aegis is better at reducing magic damage of all elements. Therefore they excel at elemental defense from an overall point more than Rune Fencer.

3. Rune Fencer is not "extremely strong" toward status ailments. Even with the correct element runes, bar-element, bar-status, and Pflug, I still get hit with status ailments, especially on harder targets (Very Tough and higher) which Rune Fencer is supposed to be able to tank.

4. Distributing elemental damage reduction most of the time, is not enough especially when a large part of that is limited to 1 element. Rune Fencer can't deal as much damage as current 2-handed damage jobs. They also can't tank anything in Adoulin as everything has high accuracy and attack, and will bypass their evasion and shadows to tear them apart. So their party slot is supposed to be justified on simply reducing magic damage of a single element? And the brief One for All? There are other jobs who do the exact same thing and have other roles they can fill.

[Glamdring]

Greetings,

1. Physical damage mitigation
   Moving forward we plan on adding more equipment that reduces physical damage taken for all jobs, not only rune fencer.
   
   The fact that paladin is the job that is most apt to deal with physical damage will not change; however, our goal is to bring other jobs closer to where paladin is currently.
   
   Rune fencers are not supposed to be strong defenders against physical damage, and as such we have no plans to add stats that will make them like a paladin.
   
   
2. Comparisons to paladins with Aegis/Ochain
   When comparing magic defense between the current rune fencer and equipment to a paladin that is completely decked out, a paladin with Aegis will be better at reducing the magic damage of all elements. However, since rune fencer excels at elemental defense, they are also extremely strong towards status ailments in addition to elemental damage.
   
   Also, the effects of Aegis only apply toward the paladin, while rune fencers are able to spread the elemental damage reduction effect to party members making them extremely beneficial in party situations. When adding job-specific equipment to rune fencer moving forward, we will be paying careful attention to the balance between them and Aegis/Ochain and be making necessary adjustments.
   
   
3. Rune fencer stats
   We understand that there are aspects that make it difficult for rune fencer to act as a tank and players often see them as being in a support role instead.
   
   With the addition of the rune fencer merit point category as well as artifact equipment, we plan on making adjustments to make it more possible for rune fencers to tank and shine even more on the support front.
   
   These are not the only adjustments that will be made, so rest assured that we will continue to adjust this job.

1. Physical damage mitigation-ok, so Rune isn't meant to be good in this arena. I can accept that, you have said we were a magic tank, fine. I still have concerns about this but they'll be addressed below where the concerns overlap.

2. Comparasins to paladin... VALID! Paladin is-at least many think-the only designed traditional tank, nin was an exploit of shadows that the players ran with and SE decided to embrace-seeming to be designed as a hybrid puller/medium DD but the shadows made it more since players didn't mind burning Shehei, the eva tanks are even less designed to work as such (although dnc clearly has some tank in the design) but with the way abilities scaled into end-game post lvl 75 they became valid-especially with a dedicated curebomber. But Rune is meant to be a designed tank, and therefore should be comparable-even if in a reciprocal nature-to a pld. Now, I understand the pld that strong is wielding a full 99 relic or equivalent, so a rune with the same might be just as tough. BUT SE has already stated we will get no Relic or Full Empy weap equivalent and with all due respect to those saying "mythic" I haven't seen a peep about that since that early job announcement so I'm assuming that went the way of Bst's +Pet TH gear until I see differently. I'm fine with a non-relic Run not matching a full relic pld, but if that is the case then we need an option for a full relic rune to match a full relic pld in terms of survival.

3 Stats

ok, this is also partially in response to #1 since there is an overlap. You might want to remind the devs that almost every mob added in the new content excells at physical damage! In other words, WHAT THE HELL ARE WE SUPPOSED TO BE TANKING? Seriously, this is a core issue with this job if you mean us to be a tank. It's like making us superresistant to biological attacks and then not having any biological attackers. I'm not saying to adjust the prey you guys have added, I have many paladin friends and they are thrilled to have their jobs back. But as you add more you might want to look at giving us a party role with the prey you add. And keep in mind, making it magic heavy doesn't do jack if it can still 1-2 shot us with physical attacks-especially if a pld tanking the same mob will be fine regardless of which damage type it uses.

Now, assuming you give us something to tank we still need a means of holding hate-without our own personal pet thf. These days hate is held primarily on the basis of melee damage dealt since the making of ZERG UBER ALLES the only acceptable strategy for all content; translation-Rune BOHICA ("Bend Over, Here It Comes Again"), as we are only moderate DD for melee-and no magic damage dealt. You want to keep us on GS primarily, fine with me, but then we need a grip from hell to match a Greatsword from hell to allow us to stay at the top of the hate list. Maybe some more magic tools, too.

So, we're going to have to hold you to that last sentence because you (SE, not you Camate) still have a LONG way to go to make this job realize your vision of it.

[Cljader1]

Now, assuming you give us something to tank we still need a means of holding hate-without our own personal pet thf. These days hate is held primarily on the basis of You want to keep us on GS primarily, fine with me, but then we need a grip from hell to match a Greatsword from hell to allow us to stay at the top of the hate list. Maybe some more magic tools, too.

This Hate issue might be solve with the Rune Enchantment merits, by reducing our rune application to zero, spamming runes multiple times will be our primary hate tool. Spamming a rune 6 times is equivalent to a provoke, I like this change I just hope plds don't start to complain about it.

[Losie]

[*]Physical damage mitigation
Moving forward we plan on adding more equipment that reduces physical damage taken for all jobs, not only rune fencer.

The fact that paladin is the job that is most apt to deal with physical damage will not change; however, our goal is to bring other jobs closer to where paladin is currently.

Rune fencers are not supposed to be strong defenders against physical damage, and as such we have no plans to add stats that will make them like a paladin.

There seem to be few, if any, situations which call for a tank more capable of handling magic damage than physical.

[*]Comparisons to paladins with Aegis/Ochain
When comparing magic defense between the current rune fencer and equipment to a paladin that is completely decked out, a paladin with Aegis will be better at reducing the magic damage of all elements. However, since rune fencer excels at elemental defense, they are also extremely strong towards status ailments in addition to elemental damage.

Also, the effects of Aegis only apply toward the paladin, while rune fencers are able to spread the elemental damage reduction effect to party members making them extremely beneficial in party situations. When adding job-specific equipment to rune fencer moving forward, we will be paying careful attention to the balance between them and Aegis/Ochain and be making necessary adjustments.

Two things here:

First off, regarding the second section and the remark about status ailments: That's true on status ailments, however if it's more than one element, i.e. requiring different runes of the switching of runes, than the ability to mitigate status is nearly irrelevant anyway. The same problem in dealing with more than one element is present in dealing with more than one status ailment - it takes 20-some seconds to swap runes, and much longer for any Valiance/Vallation/Pflug to swap, as they do not appear to update dynamically, but only based on what runes are active *when used.* The status ailment protection is also self only. The group elemental damage reduction from val- is nice, but.. the enmity generated is absolutely ridiculous. For tanking it's great, but for providing support it screws up tanking for anyone else.

As for the comparing of Aeg/Ochain vs RUN - it may be an Apples to Oranges comparison, but realistically it *is* the comparison players will be making. There are more PLDs out there with one and/or the other of the two shields now, and with the creep of levels and gear, more and more are obtaining them all the easier. You'd have been lucky to get into ANY delve run at first without ochain or aegis, the items are simply THAT good. Until RUN gets a class-specific item on the same astounding level of Ochain/Aegis then your quote essentially says they will not measure up. You put a new tanking job into a game with one class already in which is designed to tank anything with two end-all-beat-all ultimate shields at their disposal.

So yeah:

* RUN can resist ailments, but few at a time and far between, recast and rune switch time does not support this.
* RUN can protect group, but again recast does not support full time, minutes of no protection, and it screws up aggro.
* Aegis/Ochain may be an 'unfair' comparision to RUN, but it's a realistic one. An ideal scenario would to have had RME weapons ready for RUN so that there would be an item that could be added to help make up the gap created due to the poor itemizations that Aegis/Ochain represent (let's be honest, they are astoundingly good shields and seem to have been made by devs who didn't expect to ever need to make an item players would want more).

Any, to emphasize it more - Even IF some mob was ailment heavy and AE heavy, it would still deal physical damage and smack a RUN around way more than PLD, so the benefits above end up being pretty moot.