More Paladin-centered shields needed to close the gap with Aegis & Ochain

[OmnysValefor]

PLD could stand for some stances, like hasso/seigan yonin/innin (even berserk/defender). I don't think my paladin needs to be more powerful, but a defensive stance that was independent of caps would be a buff to other paladins.

Berserk and Defender aren't technically stances, but they're my favorite, because even hard mobs I can keep defender up, pop berserk (normalizing my attack/defense), ws, and cancel berserk, if I feel like my life is really in danger. I like that they stack so that this can be done.

In 75 days, there was also merit to popping JA's and canceling them--just the use of the ability generated sizable enmity.

Suppose, just for numbers, pld had a -10% damage taken stance that could break PDT and MDT cap, and was additive. A paladin in -50% dt gear takes -60% in this stance. A paladin in -5%, takes -15%.

Conversely, something I've long desired, is a DD stance for paladin. It would be fine if this was like nin's stances and overwrote each other but shared a cooldown.

Perhaps the stances shouldn't break caps, maybe they should just be a trait of the job so that a paladin needs only -40% to hit pdt cap and 13% to hit natural mdt cap. This is probably more fair. It doesn't do anything really for a DT capped paladin but is a boost to others.

Stalwart Shield - Raises blocking by (mulplicative?) 10% (Places where an Ochain isn't block capping, it still wouldn't be) and reduces damage taken by 10%. Does not (does?) affect damage reduction limits.
Blade First - Blocking is lowered by 10%, but ... something something... double attack... ja haste? Idk. lol.

If it broke damage caps, such an ability would hamper the value of Aegis slightly, unless you couldn't keep shell up, but that's not common. By hampering Aegis' value, Ochain's would naturally be increased.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

I've been mulling over this for quite some time. Shield mechanics as a whole are questionable, not even looking into how shields factor in overall survivability. That's why I said the system seems to be designed around Aegis/Ochain being the best.

During a previous incarnation of this thread (and let's face it: this comes up every few months or so), I voiced my opinion that size 4 shields should become something other than arm decoration. I think it's kind of ridiculous that the job with the highest shield skill in the game, wearing one of the most job-exclusive shields in the game (they're typically PLD and DRK only), is actually a step backwards from equipping a shield accessible to WAR or even RDM.

You want to talk about the gaping hole between R/E and everything else? Hole, thy name is tower shields.

[Duelle]

During a previous incarnation of this thread (and let's face it: this comes up every few months or so), I voiced my opinion that size 4 shields should become something other than arm decoration. I think it's kind of ridiculous that the job with the highest shield skill in the game, wearing one of the most job-exclusive shields in the game (they're typically PLD and DRK only), is actually a step backwards from equipping a shield accessible to WAR or even RDM.

You want to talk about the gaping hole between R/E and everything else? Hole, thy name is tower shields.

I agree, but more because it pertains to the lopsided design for shield mechanics. I get that they wanted to simulate real-life shield wielding when they created the system based on shield sizes, but as you said, it in effect relegated one entire category of shields to being decorations. I belie it is also part of why Aegis was so good at 75. Fully milked the shield size system with none of the drawbacks suffered by anything bigger than kite shields.

[Demon6324236]

The reason Ochain and Aegis are so much better in general when it comes to blocking is because of the way shields work besides them basically.

Rate Reduction
Buckler 4 1
Round 3 2
Kite 2 3
Tower 1 4
Aegis 4 3
Ochain 5 5

Easiest way of showing it. Tower is pointless because it blocks a ton of damage, but never blocks, same with bucklers, round shields are ok but Kites are the shields that excel outside of Aegis/Ochain because they have the best balance. Aegis and Ochain on the other hand do not have the flaw that others do, where increased block rate means reduced reduction, or vice versa. If they fixed shields to be more balanced in that respect it would help too. Tower for instance is so exclusive to PLD and DRK that they should have a better block rate block rate. If their effect was more tied to the jobs that can use them rather than simply low blocking on bigger shields, it would be fine, or if PLD got some trait to make Tower shields suck less.

[Duelle]

Tower is pointless because it blocks a ton of damage, but never blocks, same with bucklers, round shields are ok but Kites are the shields that excel outside of Aegis/Ochain because they have the best balance. Aegis and Ochain on the other hand do not have the flaw that others do, where increased block rate means reduced reduction, or vice versa. If they fixed shields to be more balanced in that respect it would help too. Tower for instance is so exclusive to PLD and DRK that they should have a better block rate. If their effect was more tied to the jobs that can use them rather than simply low blocking on bigger shields, it would be fine, or if PLD got some trait to make Tower shields suck less.

I agree with this.

[Alpheus]

A complete re-tool of the way that defensive mechanisms work,

This and extend the rework to parrying and evasion and guard, that stuff gets so useless so fast it's appalling.

[Taint2]

2 of the 3 Delve bosses are now being killed without PLDs.

PLD will be useless again once the a shark strategy is found.

[Duelle]

2 of the 3 Delve bosses are now being killed without PLDs.

PLD will be useless again once the a shark strategy is found.

All that does is scream volumes about PLD's design. >.>

[Demon6324236]

All that does is scream volumes about PLD's design. >.>

Really I would say its the games design in general. As said before, it either hits so hard you need an amazing PLD, or its so weak your DDs can tank it, very little room between. Look at legion mobs though, they used to hit very hard, so hard in fact it nearly killed everyone in 1 hit, what did we do? PD or stun lock it, so it could not hurt us. Tanking in this game simply is broken, DDs can tank, if they cant, you bring support so that you can stop it from attacking completely, very few times is PLD an option without being a drag on resources. The only way PLD would truly work is if something hit so hard that literally no DD could survive more than a single hit from it even in capped out PDT & Defense gear, so no matter what it is impossible for a DD to really tank, then a PLD would have to be able to survive against this exact same kind of attack with quite a bit of HP left. Even then, becomes nothing more than curing the PLD while DDs beat away, or run in to WS. Without things being that way, we will always find a way around using a real tank, and instead favor just another DD in their spot to kill quicker, especially when events are so cramped for time like Delve is, where you have only 45 minutes inside to kill 2 NMs and make it to the 3rd, or 20 minutes to kill NMs outside.

[Fynlar]

PLD isn't really useful for fighting Delve NMs, for the same reasons we didn't really use them for fighting anything else (like in Voidwatch; if you wanted someone to have Shield Bash you just made a BRD sub /PLD). The hate system just doesn't allow for PLD to keep hate, and even if it could, most of the toughest mobs will just AoE your frontline to death anyway, making having a tank pointless.

PLD is currently used for *holding* NMs in fracture, not fighting them. So yeah, the fact that they aren't being used for boss runs (where the goal is to kill all of the NMs, not hold them) should come as a surprise to nobody. I've honestly never been sure why people bother bringing PLDs for things like field NMs; they just seem like wastes of an alliance slot tbh.