More Paladin-centered shields needed to close the gap with Aegis & Ochain

[Demon6324236]

You see it as a goal, but you main PLD, what about anyone who does not main PLD? Are only people with excess amounts of time/gil and PLD mains the only people allowed to really play PLD in any meaningful content? I do not mean the hardest stuff in the game, like Delve bosses, I mean older content, VW for instance, or Legion, hell even Odin II adds and really anything level 99 in general. Are Relic and Emp PLDs the only PLDs that should really be useful in this content? Should other shields not truly be useful to some degree that allows people to play the job even if not as effectivly?

[OmnysValefor]

I love it when people support bad game design.

"You must level this job and do a bunch of mundane/repetitive things to even consider playing this other job at PAR." This is what you are saying, and that is the problem with FFXI currently. I don't get why people don't see that, unless they want other people to suffer for hours on end just to play the interesting parts of this game, which is a joke. RME of any kind should be a tool, not a requirement.

FFXI has been this way for as long as I've played it.

You could enjoy your job all you wanted but when it came time to do endgame, you sometimes had to get on a different job. This is not new. I loved my paladin, but I leveled nin so I could have merit invites cuz pld certainly wasn't getting them. This is XI.

Abyssea made it even worse 2/3 of the jobs were worthless most of the time.

[OmnysValefor]

You see it as a goal, but you main PLD, what about anyone who does not main PLD? Are only people with excess amounts of time/gil and PLD mains the only people allowed to really play PLD in any meaningful content? I do not mean the hardest stuff in the game, like Delve bosses, I mean older content, VW for instance, or Legion, hell even Odin II adds and really anything level 99 in general. Are Relic and Emp PLDs the only PLDs that should really be useful in this content? Should other shields not truly be useful to some degree that allows people to play the job even if not as effectivly?

They're not the only pld's useful in the content. I see non aegis/ochains regularly enough. Maybe it's because Valefor sucks and our pool of puggable plds sucks but I see it often enough. I wonder, again, how effective pld/rdm would be for these guys, I've never seen one try it, but the small mdb, the fast cast, and ice spikes (for when reprisal is down), barspell. Yeah their mage can bar, but mages don't like to run into the fight. PLD/RDM and eat a taco. See how that goes.

I've yet to see one of these PLDs have a respectable DT kit, and a dt kit is for pld what a curing kit is for whm. If you don't have one, you honestly shouldn't play it in any serious setting.

[Demon6324236]

You could enjoy your job all you wanted but when it came time to do endgame, you sometimes had to get on a different job.

What is endgame anymore? Seems to me almost all level 99 content involves an Aegis or Ochain requirement for PLD, so are you saying content made before level 99, like Abyssea or early VW, are about the only things that are non-EG?

[Demon6324236]

They're not the only pld's useful in the content. I see non aegis/ochains regularly enough. Maybe it's because Valefor sucks and our pool of puggable plds sucks but I see it often enough. I wonder, again, how effective pld/rdm would be for these guys, I've never seen one try it, but the small mdb, the fast cast, and ice spikes (for when reprisal is down), barspell. Yeah their mage can bar, but mages don't like to run into the fight. PLD/RDM and eat a taco. See how that goes.

/SCH if better than /RDM is for PLD now days thanks to skill boosts, on top of skill boosts you get the -na spells and erase, which provide an amazing bonus to your own ability to survive and maintain yourself, so long as you have echoes very little can stop you.

I've yet to see one of these PLDs have a respectable DT kit, and a dt kit is for pld what a curing kit is for whm. If you don't have one, you honestly shouldn't play it in any serious setting.

So far as PLD goes, I like the job, but I do not main it, that is why I have no Aegis or Ochain, at the same time I have a capped PDT/MDT set with a lot of MDT on it as well and a good shield, yet every time I offer my PLD to someone they ask the same question... "Do you have Aegis or Ochain?" and my reply is always the same, I do not, but my PLD is well geared and I know how to play the job. After that, besides people I know and a few VW shouts, I have never really gotten a reply back for PLD, if anything I have to send another tell a few shouts later offering another job because my PLD didnt meet their specs, aka, Aegis/Ochain.

[Radd]

FFXI has been this way for as long as I've played it.

You could enjoy your job all you wanted but when it came time to do endgame, you sometimes had to get on a different job. This is not new. I loved my paladin, but I leveled nin so I could have merit invites cuz pld certainly wasn't getting them. This is XI.

Abyssea made it even worse 2/3 of the jobs were worthless most of the time.

You still haven't rectified or solved the problem. There is no "endgame" as you think of it anymore. It's all level 99 content, thus everyone should be at least be able to attempt it no matter the job they pick. This is the only MMO I can think of where I have to level, gear up, and grind out another job, just to play the job I want. It's makes no sense.

They're not the only pld's useful in the content. I see non aegis/ochains regularly enough. Maybe it's because Valefor sucks and our pool of puggable plds sucks but I see it often enough. I wonder, again, how effective pld/rdm would be for these guys, I've never seen one try it, but the small mdb, the fast cast, and ice spikes (for when reprisal is down), barspell. Yeah their mage can bar, but mages don't like to run into the fight. PLD/RDM and eat a taco. See how that goes.

I've yet to see one of these PLDs have a respectable DT kit, and a dt kit is for pld what a curing kit is for whm. If you don't have one, you honestly shouldn't play it in any serious setting.

I'm sorry, but a DT kit makes a big difference, yes, but you notice an even bigger gap when you have a DT set and a shield that can block 90-100% of the time, which also has a higher defense bonus on blocks compared to your standard size 3 kite shield.

You could practically be naked with Ochain and probably take just as much damage as someone in a fully geared out DT set with an older shield.

[Demon6324236]

You could practically be naked with Ochain and probably take just as much damage as someone in a fully geared out DT set with an older shield.

Sadly I would actually think the PLD with DT and old shield might take more depending on the level of the mob, because so far as I know Ochain can hit a 100% block rate, and on anything that is not a NM Ochain+PDT+Phalanx basically means 0 DMG, where as a non-Ochain shield can take it down, but on most mobs it will take it down to 10~25, rather than a straight 0.

[OmnysValefor]

I was talking about the entirety of FFXI. It has always been that you can go fool around on whatever job you like. You have always been able to do outdated content with odd job combos. There's a very old vid of a blm/nin tanking byakko (@75). Yeah they used a stun rotation but it was cool to watch.

There were a certain few jobs you could be on and never want for anything, but even those changed over time.

BLM and WHM might be the only jobs that have always been safe bets to have in XI. So many jobs weren't welcome in old-endgame. So many jobs weren't welcome in merit parties, they weren't even welcome exping. Far too many jobs (most of the list) didn't have a lot of use in Abyssea. Voidwatch opened the spread back up but only because of the proc-system.

For 5 years now, we've had more jobs than you can even fit in an alliance, and when you consider 3 of those are going to whm/sch, 3+ are going to brd/cor, 2 are going to pld.. it gets pretty sad.

But it's how XI is designed. Don't ask me why.

[OmnysValefor]

Sadly I would actually think the PLD with DT and old shield might take more depending on the level of the mob, because so far as I know Ochain can hit a 100% block rate, and on anything that is not a NM Ochain+PDT+Phalanx basically means 0 DMG, where as a non-Ochain shield can take it down, but on most mobs it will take it down to 10~25, rather than a straight 0.

Every one of the delve NMs gets past my block rating with ochain. Not just the melee-only. The cricket gets some unblocked in, the raptor. Kurma does.

Ochain's *thing* is amazing block rate, but now that we're fighting NMs higher than our level again, Ochain isn't stoneskin.

The scorp got me for a 1329 death scissors the first day in about 40% PDT and Ochain. I survived it.

[Radd]

You have always been able to do outdated content with odd job combos.

Irrelevant.

Again, as I've said. You still aren't solving the problem. You are just supporting and making excuses for poor game design. At 75 it was pretty balanced. Nowadays, as I said, it's R/M/E or bust, and that's bullshit from any standpoint.

"Hey, you want to play this game and have fun? Well first you have to jump through 50 hoops, while juggling chainsaws, while tight rope walking over a pit of lava. After that, and only after that, you can attempt to try climbing Mt. Everest naked." This is how it currently feels to me, and it makes the game a pain to log into these days.

It also makes the game pretty boring when there's only one straight way to gear yourself. "Do this or you can't play." Sounds like a rule a 5 year old would make up.

Sadly I would actually think the PLD with DT and old shield might take more depending on the level of the mob, because so far as I know Ochain can hit a 100% block rate, and on anything that is not a NM Ochain+PDT+Phalanx basically means 0 DMG, where as a non-Ochain shield can take it down, but on most mobs it will take it down to 10~25, rather than a straight 0.

You'd probably be right. The shield is just that good, and it's even funnier that they made it such a bottleneck to get. If they are going to make RME stuff entry level, they should at least make it generally routine and simple to acquire now. If they make a Ochain/Aegis mix shield one day, I will probably just shake my head, because every other shield in the game would be instantly useless. Oh crap, I better not give them any ideas.