I feel like Delve just made 90% of the Adoulin content irrelevant

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Look at the bright side, when SE finaly figures out a way to bring VW back, you'll all have plenty of stones.

[Karah]

Being a proper DD requires an extremely high level of focus and attention to detail. A DD needs to have situational awareness of the entire battle-space and keep that awareness as they switch targets or rotate through JA's / gear sets. You need to focus on the target, especially if it's an NM and constantly watch what it's doing so that you can react appropriately. It requires the ability to make split second decisions and react to a changing environment at near light speed. And you must do all this while standing point blank in front of something with tons of sh!t going off all around you.

I can easily tell good DD's from bad DD's and very little of it has to do with gear. Though the good DD's tend to take pride in their gear sets.

I don't really want to get into a whole third party arguement deal here, but yeah, really DD means autoattack and just watch the screen, most of the time.

SC switches all your gear in response to events, all you do is hit a ws macro and go back to whatever else you were doing. Granted that's not true for everyone, but a good portion.

In a general sense, you can tell who does and doesn't give any effort, there isn't (much) middle ground, it's either full time gear, or sc macros.

For either of those scenarios it's auto-attack and "afk". (not literally, but figuratively)

[Mirage]

You can use extended macros as well, instead of using spellcast.

[Camiie]

Look at the bright side, when SE finaly figures out a way to bring VW back, you'll all have plenty of stones.

You mean in 5 years when they shoehorn in Voidwatch II where we can upgrade our pulse gear to content level 150 by collecting a new type of paper that will invariably share space with logs? Dude, I'm totally there.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

You mean in 5 years when they shoehorn in Voidwatch II where we can upgrade our pulse gear to content level 150 by collecting a new type of paper that will invariably share space with logs? Dude, I'm totally there.

I know, I can't wait either. ^^
Crossing my fingers for Neo Abyssea still.

[saevel]

I don't really want to get into a whole third party arguement deal here, but yeah, really DD means autoattack and just watch the screen, most of the time.

SC switches all your gear in response to events, all you do is hit a ws macro and go back to whatever else you were doing. Granted that's not true for everyone, but a good portion.

In a general sense, you can tell who does and doesn't give any effort, there isn't (much) middle ground, it's either full time gear, or sc macros.

For either of those scenarios it's auto-attack and "afk". (not literally, but figuratively)

No it's not f*cking auto-attack. Please stop spreading that utter bullsh!t. I prove this every single time I play this game. There is a gap between mediocre and high end DD's and it's not one based on gear.

There are DD's who do exactly as you say and they often have decent to high gear, and I beat them every time. Typically by 30~50% though sometimes by more then double. Their gear is decent enough, the wide gulf is because their simply not playing fast enough. Their being reactive instead of proactive. They wait till they see 100TP to hit their WS macro when on the server their already at 120TP (packet delays and high haste mean your one swing ahead of what your TP says). They don't line themselves up with the next target so that they don't put their weapon away. Their not tracking the BRD's movements and don't know where things are and are stuck taking a few seconds to orientate themselves and move to the next mob. All sorts of little things like that add up quickly. NM's are a whole different matter entirely, they actually require skill to kill vs just knowing how to do TP burn. One of the most common mistakes I see is waiting until your WS animation is done before switching to your TP gear. WS's are instant use and your attack round is only paused 2s after activation server side. Notice I said server side, because the WS is instant at the server, by the time you see your gear blink and the first frame of the animation the WS has already happened and damage has been calculated. It's imperative that DD's change back into their TP gear before their attack round timer starts back up again which tends to be in the middle of the WS animation. DD's who wait are doing one to two silent attack rounds in WS gear.

This is neither the time nor the place to discuss SC's shortcomings when it comes to melee.

[Prestorian]

Honestly op I agree with your statements. I can't imagine how people feel working hard towards a certain something then it becoming obsolete for the current time.

I'm on a different boat. I recently started playing ffxi and I find it overwhelming. I already got 2 jobs at 99 and getting a third shortly. I find it very confusing and time consuming trying to catch up to where people are. There seems to be so much going on it gets very overwhelming trying to do one thing at a time. I feel like once I get to delve people will already be two contents ahead of me.

People are still joining ffxi for the nostalgic feeling without realizing how much stuff they need to get done in order to be ready for delve. You need to have amazing gear which can only be attained by having groups of people with you. I already know a few people who recently quit because their job has been rendered useless, weak argument but sure enough it was all they needed to quit.

[Xtrasweettea]

No it's not f*cking auto-attack. Please stop spreading that utter bullsh!t. I prove this every single time I play this game. There is a gap between mediocre and high end DD's and it's not one based on gear.

Sorry, you can't say "no auto-attack" when the majority of the DD job function comes from auto-attack: damage and effective TP accumulation. It is not buffalo chips, it's the truth.

The gap between mediocore and high end support jobs are also not just based on gear. So, what's your point?

There are DD's who do exactly as you say and they often have decent to high gear, and I beat them every time. Typically by 30~50% though sometimes by more then double. Their gear is decent enough, the wide gulf is because their simply not playing fast enough. Their being reactive instead of proactive. They wait till they see 100TP to hit their WS macro when on the server their already at 120TP (packet delays and high haste mean your one swing ahead of what your TP says).

You still need to be engaged and auto-attack on to do this. Can't swing without it. Knowing when to properly WS requires attention and skill. That is a player ability, not a DD only ability.

Their not tracking the BRD's movements and don't know where things are and are stuck taking a few seconds to orientate themselves and move to the next mob.

This goes for all players, not just DDs. The art of spatial relationships (knowing where to stand for BRD songs) is lost thanks to the years of VW and Abyssea. Abyssea didn't require full-time songs and VW you were stationary most of the time, unlike back in old Dynamis or roaming Merit parties. Most of the player-base needs to relearn spatial relationships. This is not just a DD responsibility.

NM's are a whole different matter entirely, they actually require skill to kill vs just knowing how to do TP burn.

The skills part (such as stunning certain TP moves or spells, turning to avoid gaze attacks, knowing specific quirks of each enemy, etc.) is related to the player and just not necessarily the job. Good players will do their best to educate themselves with resources available or do trial and error. This is not a DD only thing. The abilities they have (such as DRK's Weapon Bash and Stun spell) may be job related, but that is about it. The majority of the skill comes from the player.

Beyond the specific skills needed for DDing on specific enemies, it is really just auto-attack and WS. It isn't much beyond on that. I know you hate having a job you may love being reduced down to its basic function, but it's the truth. It's no different than WHMs main function is curing, BRDs main function is buffing with songs, etc. The difference between the WHM and the DD is that the DD's main function (dealing damage) is done for him or her automatically (except for WSs) as long as he or she is within range and facing the right direction.

[saevel]

Sorry, you can't say "no auto-attack" when the majority of the DD job function comes from auto-attack: damage and effective TP accumulation. It is not buffalo chips, it's the truth.

The gap between mediocore and high end support jobs are also not just based on gear. So, what's your point?


You still need to be engaged and auto-attack on to do this. Can't swing without it. Knowing when to properly WS requires attention and skill. That is a player ability, not a DD only ability.


This goes for all players, not just DDs. The art of spatial relationships (knowing where to stand for BRD songs) is lost thanks to the years of VW and Abyssea. Abyssea didn't require full-time songs and VW you were stationary most of the time, unlike back in old Dynamis or roaming Merit parties. Most of the player-base needs to relearn spatial relationships. This is not just a DD responsibility.



The skills part (such as stunning certain TP moves or spells, turning to avoid gaze attacks, knowing specific quirks of each enemy, etc.) is related to the player and just not necessarily the job. Good players will do their best to educate themselves with resources available or do trial and error. This is not a DD only thing. The abilities they have (such as DRK's Weapon Bash and Stun spell) may be job related, but that is about it. The majority of the skill comes from the player.

Beyond the specific skills needed for DDing on specific enemies, it is really just auto-attack and WS. It isn't much beyond on that. I know you hate having a job you may love being reduced down to its basic function, but it's the truth. It's no different than WHMs main function is curing, BRDs main function is buffing with songs, etc. The difference between the WHM and the DD is that the DD's main function (dealing damage) is done for him or her automatically (except for WSs) as long as he or she is within range and facing the right direction.

Strawman.

You (and others) posted that DD's were braindead auto-attack jobs, which is untrue and highly incorrect. Anyone (including you) who thinks that is a shitty DD and I prove it constantly.

Plus while I do like melee's, my favorite job isn't melee but RDM. It was the first job I mastered and the multi-tasking, micromanaging skills I learned from it translate well into melee jobs.

Of course someone who thinks DD's only auto-attack and hit one WS macro would have absolute no idea what I'm talking about. No wonder your so confused.

[sc4500]

This is what happens when they let tanaka (sp) (amazing story teller done alot when he was younger) but the dude make there mmos outdated and not willing listen, and he takes FF backwards and he seemed have a ego problem, game was made under his reign. ,Just look what he happen to do to ff14, then see what he did to this game now. What he did with seekers he take steps backwards and now this new kid got to clean it up, and it going take him time, like it taken the one dude that made abyssea for us and what he has done on ff14 is amazing, ff14 is amazing now that people can talk about it since the nda lifted on the beta testers so they do not get banned.