I feel like Delve just made 90% of the Adoulin content irrelevant

[OmnysValefor]

I was surprised when I got into a T5 Delve shout, that out of the 3 bards, I was the only one with Daurdabla. Shouters are almost certainly not being picky about which support they take.

Definitely correct in regard to bard. As long as noone steps up to replace you, you could show up in nothing but a lamia horn, and people would probably take you. COR is nowhere near as forgiving but people will darn near farm you seals beforehand if you're a bard.

Now, I'm not saying shouters should be requiring a geegollyhorn or harp in cases where it's not needed (some T5 groups/comps need bard rotations, some do not), but people just don't care as long as they get march.

Went to a Kurma the other day and sat for 15 seconds while the bard wrote a pianissimo macro. Nothing major, was just funny. It wasn't a macro for anyone, he just didn't have the ability macro'd.

It's no better than the Aegis/Ochains that don't know what supertanking is, or the whms who have 230 healing skill and don't care enough to skill it and show up /rdm.

Surely this beats the current predicament, where people just AFK, and aren't swinging!?

Nah, people selfishly eating mana while they whiff/feed tp at the expense of others in hard content is the worse of the two, imo.

[Xtrasweettea]

Then shouters either need to be less selective about which DD they take (eg. Delve DD Only), or more selective about which healers/support they take.

I will just repost what I posted in another thread here. It should explain why shouters shout like they do. Please note this was related to why shouters are shouting for RMED and seem to require DDs to have them.

It's called business!

The DD situation is "bad" now because shouters want to be able to get the most Plasm per trip as possible. It is no different than trying to get the most kills per set of playtime for Voidwatch or the most EXP per hour when Meriting on Colbri.

This isn't selfishness, it's business. The shouter knows that he or she isn't trying to get the most EXP/Plasm/Kill/Gil per hour for his or her own selfish needs (not always), he/she is trying to get the most for the hardest to fill jobs: support (and now PLDs). Support and mage jobs are not always the most entertaining jobs, they require the most attention to play, and require higher than average reaction to play. DDs do not necessarily require such high requirements: they don't need to look at other player's health bars, they don't need pay attention to TP moves that give status affects to other players, and they don't need to keep the group buffed almost 100% of the time. Most of the DD's job duty is on auto-attack. The differences alone make the DD jobs more appealing and mage jobs unappealing to most players. It's obvious when we see the large number of DDs compared to the number of support.

We have an oversupply of DD and an under-supply of support. So, in order for the shouter to get best support he or she can, he or she is going to need to appeal to them. Since there is no way to measure the skill of a player without knowing the player themselves, the easiest way to measure "skill" will be requiring the DDs to have RMED. This restricts the number of DDs, but potentially increases the number of currency/exp/kills per trip/pop/run. This appeals to the under-supplied support jobs.

This is called "supply-side economics". It is working here.

Now to stop the issue that is Hawklaser brought up about progressive credentialism (Quote: "As the DD situation is only going to get worse on gear requirements as things go on, and help for older content can be very hard to get at times.") that is created because of supply-side economics of our job economy, players will need to do five things:
1. Play a support job
2. Start their own shout group and they can set their own criteria
3. Join a LS that doesn't require RMED for events.
4. Try to convince the support job players to reduce their currency/exp/kill per hour for the same amount of work as he or she would be doing if he or she is being "paid" more per trip/pop/run.
5. Ask SE to make AH equivalents (as Hawklaser had suggested)

#1 and #2 are doable. #3 might me harder. Good luck with #4. #5 could happen.

Now, this can put put into terms with crappy support. Eventually the number of people jumping onto support jobs to "fill the roles" will decrease the "rarity" of support jobs, making their value drop. Eventually, shouters will be able to either lighten their grip on DD requirements or increase their support job requirements. I have already seen shouts for BRDs who "know how to pull."

[Camiie]

And you get your 30k piece of gear in 4 runs instead of 5. Whoop de doo.

[Xtrasweettea]

And you get your 30k piece of gear in 4 runs instead of 5. Whoop de doo.

That's one less run that someone has to do for that piece of gear. That's one round sooner to the next piece of gear or Airlixir that person can purchase.

I will gladly "whoop de doo" when my valuable time is saved, even it is saved by one "run". Just to note: one run isn't just the 45 minutes in the event, but also the time to shout for members, the cost of supplying oneself for the run (echo drops, food, etc.), and travel. So, that 45 minutes could be turned into two hours or more. You bet I want the most out of one run. As a person who plays BRD almost full time, I will play the market (unless it is a LS event, then LS determines everything) and get the most available per run.

[Demon6324236]

1 run adds up admittedly, its 1 less run till a weapon, but what about people like me? I need 5 pieces of gear and a weapon, not only that, but I need them all at 15 because half of them are of no use to me till that level, so I need Airlixirs too, and I also need some Boss drops, which I will likely not get without buying them. Add up all that Plasm and you get around 800k Plasm that I need for just my base gear alone, not counting the 6 level 15 pieces of gear's worth of augments. 800k Plasm at 4k a run is 200 runs, that is 150 hours worth of Delve, if you are more selective on jobs, and say we get, 6k a run, now its only 150 runs, 112.5 hours worth of Delve, I saved nearly 38 hours worth of farming because DDs were of a higher quality, and kills were 50% faster. Some of the best runs I have been in have been hitting 8k Plasm, some of the worst have been 4~5k Plasm, so its not all to unrealistic to say people are being picky for a reason. It seems like 1 run to start, sure, but if you add up all of the farming they will ever do, it becomes much more than 1 less run they are doing for things.

I am by no means saying I agree with being so selective, in some cases I think it is very stupid or at least very bad for people who are trying to get their first Delve weapon, after all, if you have no RME, and will never make a RME99, it seems very stupid to have to make a Relic or Emp just so you can do 5 Delve runs and 1 NM so you can use a Delve weapon. Its just that trying to say its 'only 1 run' is not quite right, its very inaccurate to say its only 1 run when many people will want to level their weapons/gear, or need multiple pieces.

[Tarquine]

I find it most bemusing and amusing when people shout for "R15 D weapon only" - "Arma COR only" - "Ochain PLD Only" - "3+ song BRD only" - in the hopes that they will pull in more Plasm per hour, but then spend 1-2 hours shouting to fill the spots.

[saevel]

Most of the DD's job duty is on auto-attack.

This is one of the worst things said, EVER. Please do not repeat this lie.

Being a proper DD requires an extremely high level of focus and attention to detail. A DD needs to have situational awareness of the entire battle-space and keep that awareness as they switch targets or rotate through JA's / gear sets. You need to focus on the target, especially if it's an NM and constantly watch what it's doing so that you can react appropriately. It requires the ability to make split second decisions and react to a changing environment at near light speed. And you must do all this while standing point blank in front of something with tons of sh!t going off all around you.

I can easily tell good DD's from bad DD's and very little of it has to do with gear. Though the good DD's tend to take pride in their gear sets.

[Xtrasweettea]

This is one of the worst things said, EVER. Please do not repeat this lie.

It isn't a lie, Saevel. Most of a DD's functions are on auto-attack. DDs do not need to hit a button to swing their weapon upon every cooldown like a mage has to do for their spells in order to do the basic function of their job (whether it be curing, buffing, pulling with a song, sleeping, etc.). DDs have it pretty easy for their main function, the game gives it to them with auto-attack.

Being a proper DD requires an extremely high level of focus and attention to detail. A DD needs to have situational awareness of the entire battle-space and keep that awareness as they switch targets or rotate through JA's / gear sets. You need to focus on the target, especially if it's an NM and constantly watch what it's doing so that you can react appropriately. It requires the ability to make split second decisions and react to a changing environment at near light speed. And you must do all this while standing point blank in front of something with tons of sh!t going off all around you.

This is more true for support jobs than DDs. All payers SHOULD have situational awareness of the battlefield around them, whether the are facing a monster, facing a wall, etc.

Rotating JAs is easy to do and keep up compared to Haste cycle, Refresh cycle (if you are in a party that requires it), curing, removing ailments, sleeping links/pulls, calling out pops, pulling, stunning (if the event requires it), etc. Support jobs require faster decision making times than DDs have to. It is the truth. The difference between support and DD decision making is that support jobs are responsible for other people before themselves, DDs only need to worry about themselves half the time. On top of that, DDs know that they have someone to keep them alive. So what you stated really pertains to support jobs more than DDs.

DDs AND support should be swapping to their appropriate gear sets for different situations, JAs, WSs, spells, etc. The community lets support jobs give a free pass on gear swapping most of the time because of the rarity of support jobs. This doesn't mean it is correct, but this is allowed due to the job supply.

I can easily tell good DD's from bad DD's and very little of it has to do with gear. Though the good DD's tend to take pride in their gear sets.

The same falls to support jobs also, so what's your point?

[jake3614]

Hey everyone,

Producer Matsui would like to elaborate a bit further on the adjustments that the development team has planned for Reives:

Here's a thought going forward:
Why not launch with MORE/FASTER content at the start (which is what so many are asking for, so they can do other content with the Bayld), and as new content opens up, scale the existing back to promote player progression to new areas.
Instead, updates are done in reverse fashion that most players who partake in the content have said repeatedly is not conducive to the situation or style of gameplay at all.
I just don't understand after having the exact same complaints with Beseiged, Campaign, and Bastion about frequency, difficulty and accessibility why new content is still launched in this manner, causing players to complain/give feedback that is already obvious and then it's ramped up to the state of quality it should've been at launch.

[Glamdring]

I am by no means saying I agree with being so selective, in some cases I think it is very stupid or at least very bad for people who are trying to get their first Delve weapon, after all, if you have no RME, and will never make a RME99, it seems very stupid to have to make a Relic or Emp just so you can do 5 Delve runs and 1 NM so you can use a Delve weapon. Its just that trying to say its 'only 1 run' is not quite right, its very inaccurate to say its only 1 run when many people will want to level their weapons/gear, or need multiple pieces.

IF they beef 99 RME to be comparable to a delve-sidegrade-as seems to be mentioned in some of these posts that is 1 less item. In fact, since RME is more closely linked to the job using the weapon that "sidegrade" may in fact be superior to the generalized Delve augments. Until we see the boosts we can't actually say for certain, but just pointing out all may not be as hopeless as it seems.

Now the bad news, most of us are playing more than 1 job these days, so your calculations need to be multiplied by however many a player actually uses. the only good news is you don't have any "item equipped" requirements, so you can do it on any job the group allows you to use. Funny, many of us have been begging for years for a points-based end-game drop system so we don't have to luck into a drop, then luck in to a group that will let us play our rdm as an example for the upgrades, now that the game is in its end days we finally get it. Time to go gnaw on my own liver...