New weapons with higher base damage then relics

[Fermion]

You probably don't own one to say that.
Most of the DDs using 85 or even 90 Empyreans are gimps that think that using a weapon with a unique weapon skills make them good, well it's not. While it's not a "game changer" it sure makes a huge difference when you face a tough ennemy. I wouldn't even think about bringing a DD like that to something like Bismarck, PW or Botulus Rex.

I don't mind they release some new weapons but do they have to destroy every relics/mythics/empyreans? This is just a slap in the face to every 99 R/M/E holders.

Did you read my post in its entirety? 10-15% damage is the most you get from changing from a 90 empy (or equivalent) to 99. That's about 1-2 minutes off of those NMs at best (if the ENTIRE alliance upgraded from 90-99). Let's say your 90 weapon does 20k damage per NM, a 99 would do 22-23k. If you say that's a "huge difference" or "gimp" then those are your definitions, not mine. I don't want to argue semantics, that's all it's really going to boil down to.

A better argument would be that the 99 holders tend to have much better gearsets overall, instead of focusing simply on the weapon.

[Fulgore]

.................

[Horadrim]

As I already had the chance to write on BG, I don't think SE is doing this to "stimulate people into going to the new areas", it's not necessary and the new gear/newstuff was a motivation good enough, and they know it.
I rather think they are doing it for another reason.
Over the last year(s) Empyreal and Relics become so common they destroyed a "balance" there was within the game.
All other weapons become much less interesting because the majority of people were aiming for Relic/Empy, and we got to a point were people were required to have a mandatory R/E/M even for just being CONSIDERED for an invite (considered, not actually invited) to a lame and easy PUG.
Such a situation was a bit preposterous.

Thank you.

The fact that every non-paper shout demands a R/M/E heavy DD belows my fucking mind. Frankly I'm glad they are hitting the reset button. They already said they are going to give R/M/E wielders something to compensate for the changes (maybe a way to transfer some of the attributes from your 99's to the new weapons, or contribute to the potency of the new ultimate weapons that will come out down the line). I find it ridiculous that people are acting like this is going to ruin the game just because THEY are late to the show with building their endgame weapons...

/RAGEQUIT

All caps rage quit? <See You Again!>

[hiko]

itt :
1)relic or empy are only about base damage
2)item needed to enter skirmish are common drop, skirmish will drop 100% the weapon you want and you will get the max possible augment on1st try.

[Asymptotic]

75, which is why you asked "were you wielding level 69 weapons when the cap was 75?" and I replied "not 69, but 71, 72 and 73".
I don't get what your point is.

Are you trying to assume that when the level cap is X then level X gear/weapons are always gonna to be better than level X-1 gear/weapons?
If this is what you're trying to say yes, you're mostly right, but there have always been several exceptions in FFXI and there continue to be.
I still use level 54ish gear in some slots (for macros and situational stuff of course) for some jobs.
Chatoyant staff is a level 51 weapon if I recall and blah blah blah, we could go on forever but we'd enter the field of "special" items with special properties that kinda get ruled out because of their uniqueness.

The examples I provided in the first line instead were weapons with a level under the cap of the time, which in spite of that were still some among the best weapons the respective jobs could get access to. There wasn't anything particularly special about them, they were just freaking awesome, period


In spite of all of this, it's not the first time SE uses this approach FOR GEAR and, as a matter of fact, I don't think nobody ever whined about that because after almost 11 years people got used to the pattern and the consequent balancement.
It is though the first time this happens for weapons. There is no correspondant gear that takes as much work to be obtained as R/E/M weapons and they have always represented a "roof" over which normal weapons could never go over.
The only time they disregarded this rule was when they introduced Empyreal weapons, but it didn't last long since adjustments to Relics and Mythics came shortly after.



As I already had the chance to write on BG, I don't think SE is doing this to "stimulate people into going to the new areas", it's not necessary and the new gear/newstuff was a motivation good enough, and they know it.
I rather think they are doing it for another reason.
Over the last year(s) Empyreal and Relics become so common they destroyed a "balance" there was within the game.
All other weapons become much less interesting because the majority of people were aiming for Relic/Empy, and we got to a point were people were required to have a mandatory R/E/M even for just being CONSIDERED for an invite (considered, not actually invited) to a lame and easy PUG.
Such a situation was a bit preposterous.
I think SE is trying to make so R/E/M remain cool but a thing for "a few cool people" and not for the mass.
How they're goin to do that?
Simple.
They release new better weapons and at the same time they update only the lv99 R/E/M.
Since the majority of people have 85/90 Empy and 95 Relics, they'll have to bite the dust and get the new easy weapons.

Result? Everybody gets an upgrade, the "mandatory R/E/M" attitude will die, hardcore players with 99 R/E/M won't see their precious treasure become useless because of a subsequent update.
Done! Everybody's happy!


I'm pretty confident this is their main motivation, but while I agree it's for "the greater good" it still makes me angry they're moving so late to "repair" to a mistake done over 2 years ago. I wish there could be some other way because you can't expect people to put months of works into something to see it become useless by something that can be obtained in a couple of days and feel happy about it.

Then it seems we agree on all accounts (except it seems that the overall nature of my statement was heavily misappropriated - probably my fault for wording it rigidly in an environment where everything will be taken literally)! My response was to a sentiment (which I interpreted) as lamenting that 90 and below weapons would not be adjusted to remain competitive (this complaint is also found in the JP forums to some degree). I don't think it's unfair to trash them just as I'm not annoyed by Shenlong's being no longer relevant (The point of my statement was that people were lucky that Empyreans at stage 85 or 90 were competitive with 99 equipment in the first place and there was no reason to expect that this would remain true, while the expectation that 99 prestige weapons remain competitive is perfectly reasonable). Melee weapons generally, unlike gear and mage weapons, necessarily scale steeply with level. However, I feel that adjusting 99 weapons (which represent a larger investment) is fair and probably necessary to sustain not only continuing interest in the game but also the in-game economy (and I think SE knows this).

Note that I said that "the expectation that 99 prestige weapons remain competitive is perfectly reasonable." There are of course, arguments for why they should not remain as such but most if not all of those reasons fall to the wayside when 99 RMEs are competing on level ground with available high-tier weapons from SoA.

[Crusader81]

Thank you.

The fact that every non-paper shout demands a R/M/E heavy DD belows my fucking mind. Frankly I'm glad they are hitting the reset button. They already said they are going to give R/M/E wielders something to compensate for the changes (maybe a way to transfer some of the attributes from your 99's to the new weapons, or contribute to the potency of the new ultimate weapons that will come out down the line). I find it ridiculous that people are acting like this is going to ruin the game just because THEY are late to the show with building their endgame weapons...



All caps rage quit? <See You Again!>

The fact that 90% of the current game content is built around obtaining a R/E/M weapon doesn't concern you?

Farming dyna
Farming Salvage
Farming Abyssea weapons
Farming HMPs from VW/ cinders

Do away with those weapons being wanted and what are you left with?

Reives, Legion, and Meebles. Not to mention how most people make their money farming those things atm, and since they've completely broken the AH of all leveling items Crafting or leveling Crafting is all but impossible, or the most pointless thing in the world.

I cancelled my Sub today, there's just no point anymore, telling other ppl to like the new content or leave will only hasten FFXI's demise.

[Zhronne]

My response was to a sentiment (which I interpreted) as lamenting that 90 and below weapons would not be adjusted to remain competitive (this complaint is also found in the JP forums to some degree). I don't think it's unfair to trash them just as I'm not annoyed by Shenlong's being no longer relevant (The point of my statement was that people were lucky that Empyreans at stage 85 or 90 were competitive with 99 equipment in the first place and there was no reason to expect that this would remain true

Euuuuuh...
Well I wanted to say something but in the end I'm afraid you're absolutely right =/
It's just that when you act so LATE to "fix" something done in the past (that brought to the consequence of R/E being too common etc) of course people are gonna whine.

What I mean is: yes, this change in the long run will probably be good for *all of us*, not just the few cool people with afterglow cool stuff etc.
But at the same time can we really be surprised people are whining? I mean, we can all agree this is potentially quite a big kick in the nutts, no?
Now the thing is arguable for level 85/90 empies, but for level 95 Relics? They still require quite a bit of dedication to be completed, unless you have a bot that nets you 3 mils gil for you every day while you're sleeping.

I'm just saying that my mood atm is kinda stuck in between.
On one side people whining calling the end of the world blahblahblah.
On the other side cool people getting cocky and screaming "man up!" to the other ones.
Yeah lol, I'm definitely stuck somewhere in between atm :P

/foreveralone


But yeah, I guess I'll get through it with time, I'm particularly confident that if they play their cards right this change might prove a good thing for all of us, from the casual noobs to the hardcore pros.

[Demon6324236]

Farming dyna
Farming Salvage
Farming Abyssea weapons
Farming HMPs from VW/ cinders

Some Relic gear is still good, especially +2, so thats not entirely worthless without Relics.

Salvage II has some great gear for people to go after.

Emps are easier to make than the weapons that were just added.

VW has tons of gear worth getting, if the only reason you were doing it is for plates/cinder/dross then...

[Yinnyth]

The fact that 90% of the current game content is built around obtaining a R/E/M weapon doesn't concern you?

Farming dyna
Farming Salvage
Farming Abyssea weapons
Farming HMPs from VW/ cinders

Do away with those weapons being wanted and what are you left with?

Reives, Legion, and Meebles. Not to mention how most people make their money farming those things atm, and since they've completely broken the AH of all leveling items Crafting or leveling Crafting is all but impossible, or the most pointless thing in the world.

I cancelled my Sub today, there's just no point anymore, telling other ppl to like the new content or leave will only hasten FFXI's demise.

(Specific reply to quoted post):
You're allowed to like old content still. Just like people 6 months ago could farm evoliths and do avatar battles for equipment if they wanted, you will still be able to do older events if you want to. If you enjoy specific content in the game, by all means, do the content you enjoy.

(General reply to overall thread):
But a reasonable human being should understand that an MMO is an evolving game. It is foolish to get the best weapon in the game and honestly believe it will remain the best weapon forever. What if level 75 relic weapons were still the best weapon in the game? It would be boring. Everyone would have one by now and have nothing new to reach for.

If you think the new weapons are better than your current ones, don't think of it as your old weapon becoming worthless. Your old weapon is solid enough to take you that next step up to the higher one. This complaining seems as pointless to me as complaining "WHAT?! I HAVE TO KILL THINGS WITH MY WEAPON TO MAKE IT STRONGER?! I HATE TRIAL OF MAGIANS AND REFUSE TO DO IT! I QUIT THE GAME UNTIL SE RECOGNIZES MY WEAPON NEEDS TO BE BUFFED AND I DONT HAVE TO DO ANYTHING TO GET IT!"

It's a game. If SE just hands you the best stuff in the game for doing nothing, you're not actually playing the game. Go play and get your new weapons.

[Jaall]

(Specific reply to quoted post):
If you think the new weapons are better than your current ones, don't think of it as your old weapon becoming worthless. Your old weapon is solid enough to take you that next step up to the higher one. This complaining seems as pointless to me as complaining "WHAT?! I HAVE TO KILL THINGS WITH MY WEAPON TO MAKE IT STRONGER?! I HATE TRIAL OF MAGIANS AND REFUSE TO DO IT! I QUIT THE GAME UNTIL SE RECOGNIZES MY WEAPON NEEDS TO BE BUFFED AND I DONT HAVE TO DO ANYTHING TO GET IT!"

It's a game. If SE just hands you the best stuff in the game for doing nothing, you're not actually playing the game. Go play and get your new weapons.

I think the overall complaint is that the relic weapons haven't been updated and improved yet, but already the new weapons are in the game and out-classing people who have put in the time/effort already. If SE were gonna add them weapons then imo they "should" have upgraded the 99 R/M/E at the same time, but of course, they didn't - hence the complaints.