PLD + RDM = RUN?

[saevel]

They did. Flash and JAs are really the only tool they have now, unless runes have some enmity in them. This goes for generating Enmity though. The thing RUN may really have going for it is its damage mitigation (parry, evade, etc) as this will slow down the rate enmity is lost. As mentioned, its ability to tank will be largely dependant on AF/Relic/Empty and merits.

Good god how stupid are people going to get.

At 30% of their previous value damage still crush's everything else in the hate holding department.

Go have a long look at kanican's LJ and do some basic math to get a good feed of how for ahead damage is.

[Horadrim]

Whatever you do, do not so this.

"Evasion tanking" is only for DC~EM on jobs with native evasion bonus traits. On anything that pose's a serious threat not even THF can evade a decent amount of time. Focus on STR / DPS for hate and build a -DT set for incoming TP moves.

How about I do want I want...?

I'd like to point out that YOU are the only person who has said anything about "evasion tanking."

[Demon6324236]

I'd like to point out that YOU are the only person who has said anything about "evasion tanking."

In his quote it said...

Meanwhile -- I feel like the +AGI/EVA magian sword is a decent get, since RUN seems to rely a lot on Parry and Evasion for damage mitigation on the physical side. My biggest question lies on the potency of Foil.

Sounds like it implies EVA tanking to me.

[Delvish]

Good god how stupid are people going to get.

At 30% of their previous value damage still crush's everything else in the hate holding department.

Go have a long look at kanican's LJ and do some basic math to get a good feed of how for ahead damage is.

I don't count damage as a "tool" because it is something you do natively. Additionally, RUNs damage is not going to be up there with most DDs as is typical for a tank, hence the need for tools like flash.

[Horadrim]

In his quote it said...
Sounds like it implies EVA tanking to me.

Except it doesn't say anything about evasion tanking. I'd sooner expect my PUP to be able to EVA tank before my RUN, but I know that I HAVE been solo'ing a hell of a lot since getting the job to 99 -- but I guess there's no way on earth the guy who spends 90% of his time on the game solo'ing things plans to use the his second high evasion job to solo. No way that's a possibility, yep, the only reasonable expectation is that he wants to tank ALL THE MEGABOSSES.

I didn't know the only use for damage mitigation was tanking, I guess you learn something new every day.

While you're reaching, why don't you shove your hand on up and see if you can get pull your head back out.

I don't count damage as a "tool" because it is something you do natively. Additionally, RUNs damage is not going to be up there with most DDs as is typical for a tank, hence the need for tools like flash.

I think we can all agree that RUN's possible future as a tank depends heavily on the nature of the gear, merits, and additional abilities it receives in the coming patches. I think its a bit asinine to argue over the specifics of how it could possibility tank, or rather hold hate for the purpose of tanking, when it is clear that there are several adjustments on the horizon for not only the job, but the whole way that tanking and enmity works as well.

I'd like to hope there's a big picture we can't see that will come into play in the near future.

[Demon6324236]

Long quote.

Look, you said something about an EVA/AGI weapon, seeing as there is no use for EVA/AGI for anything but EVA tanking, and the fact you said "RUN seems to rely a lot on Parry and Evasion for damage mitigation on the physical side" it seems as though your idea is to in fact use RUN for EVA tanking for Physical damage. In which case as it was pointed out, using -DT is much better, especially when you use it on a job with Native Phalanx, where damage can be as low as 0 depending on mob and gear. You are acting like I said you planed to EVA tank everything, or that he did, in either case it is wrong, the simple fact you said anything about making an EVA GS implied that there were things you were planing to use that on, which I am sure is what prompted his reply.

[Cljader1]

Look, you said something about an EVA/AGI weapon, seeing as there is no use for EVA/AGI for anything but EVA tanking, and the fact you said "RUN seems to rely a lot on Parry and Evasion for damage mitigation on the physical side" it seems as though your idea is to in fact use RUN for EVA tanking for Physical damage. In which case as it was pointed out, using -DT is much better, especially when you use it on a job with Native Phalanx, where damage can be as low as 0 depending on mob and gear. You are acting like I said you planed to EVA tank everything, or that he did, in either case it is wrong, the simple fact you said anything about making an EVA GS implied that there were things you were planing to use that on, which I am sure is what prompted his reply.

Why are you trying to pick a fight? Can you stay on topic? and add something beneficial to the conversation regarding the usage of run's tools?

[Demon6324236]

Why are you trying to pick a fight? Can you stay on topic? and add something beneficial to the conversation regarding the usage of run's tools?

I partially did, I am not trying to fight with people I am trying to make sure my statements and others statements are not taken out of context so they can be interpreted properly. The part I did actually contribute is the fact that RUN has native Phalanx just like PLD, which means stacking PDT with Phalanx is a very viable strategy rather than using its natural EVA and Parry as its main defensive measures. While its high EVA and Parry along with its Parry JT are helpful, it is more likely that you will get use out of a PDT/Phalanx combo because they are direct damage reductions, where as EVA and Parry have a chance to proc. Its basically the same idea as with RDM tanking, if you stack enough PDT and then use Phalanx with capped Enhancing magic on it, you end up taking almost no damage, and depending on the mob, possibly no damage at all, RUN has the same potential to do just that.

[saevel]

I don't count damage as a "tool" because it is something you do natively. Additionally, RUNs damage is not going to be up there with most DDs as is typical for a tank, hence the need for tools like flash.

Go learn the enmity formulas and how hate is gained / lost.

ProTip:

After the first 30~60s Flash could end up hurting your total enmity gain. There is an opportunity cost involved in that for it's casting duration and a 2 second period afterward your attack round is paused. That missing damage is lost CE along with the missing TP that generates a WS that is more lost CE. The amount lost depends highly on how good your gear is and how many buffs you have on. With good gear, haste spell and hasso I would not be trying to spam flash. What you need to know is flash is sh!t enmity. It's only 180 CE and 1280 VE. VE is easy to cap really fast and thus your primary hate methods revolve around generating CE. #1 best generator of CE is damage by a very large amount.

[Kristal]

Rune Fencer is a Magic Defense variant of paladin.

Paladin specializes in mitigating physical damage and RUN specializes in mitigating magical damage.

With a dash of PUP maneuvers thrown in.