WHATS NEW SALE PRICE FOR BLINKERS?

[Luvbunny]

It's also good for players like me, whose real life restricts playing time so they can't use more 'legitimate' means to make money. It's the beast blood nerf all over again.

Yeah I totally understand, there are so many ways they can curb the exploits without punishing legitimate players and still give them a chance to get gill without resorting to buying. They took the easy way out, the one that has the least amount of work, hit everyone in one swoop, and giving us no other alternatives.

[Arcon]

You see I have this thing called a real life. You might have heard of it? And right now my playing time is severely restricted by my real life, you know that thing you have apparently never heard of?

So you're complaining that you can't make any money anymore without playing the game? You expect to get paid without investing in it?

I've heard exactly two complaints about blinkers nerfs, the first being that VW is now done for, which is somewhat valid, and the second being that people can't make money for doing nothing anymore, which, needless to say, is full out retarded.

The first is only valid because it's not entirely false. VW did live off of cruor for a large part, only that was not a good thing. It should have lived off of its content instead. That was something SE screwed up in an entirely different way.

[Trisscar]

So you're complaining that you can't make any money anymore without playing the game? You expect to get paid without investing in it?

I've heard exactly two complaints about blinkers nerfs, the first being that VW is now done for, which is somewhat valid, and the second being that people can't make money for doing nothing anymore, which, needless to say, is full out retarded.

The first is only valid because it's not entirely false. VW did live off of cruor for a large part, only that was not a good thing. It should have lived off of its content instead. That was something SE screwed up in an entirely different way.

And you make stupid versions of sweeping generalizations, as usual. I go into Aby and help people with killing this or that notorious monster, help shell farm souls, help complete quest/missions. I go into Voidwatch and help people progress through tiers or target (for example) Kaggen for the armor.

Because I'm a full time student, work two jobs, and take care of my mother I don't get to play as much as I'd like to so the amount of time I do play has to be divided carefully into whether I help myself or others, and it's not a whole lot of time I get to do either since I work seven days a week. I don't usually charge for helping others out so the cruor (the Aby version of currency) that I get in Aby or Voidwatch really helped me out in game so I could maintain some descent gear.

But because some pisant like you thinks that because I 'didn't earn that money' my methods of making money should be nerfed, I am now going to have to find a another way to make money by sacrificing any amount of playtime I have towards that end... Excuse me if I dislike this idea.

[Mirage]

It's pretty simple, really.

Money represents effort. When you help someone get gear in for example abyssea, your effort is expended on that person. You are giving away your resources, and you can't both give away your resources and keep them.

Because of this, cruor is generating gil out of nothing, which means gil no longer represents the resources you spent in the game (you gave these to the person you helped), which in return means that gil itself stops having value. This is a gradual process, and therefore it is not noticable in the economy itself right away. While it is going on, however, everyone feels like they are rich, because everyone's money just keeps increasing. In reality, they aren't.

[Demon6324236]

Well then you allow the greed of the human creature to consume your game experience. When you can help people & get things for it, all is fine, it allows both to profit & gives incentive to assist others more than just being nice. When you take away such an incentive you allow natural human greed to become a problem with helping people which can lead to people going without help, and being left on their own, something that goes against the very idea of a MMO.

[Mirage]

No I'm not. I am giving away my real resources (my play time is very real) to other players whenever I help them, and they give me their real resources back. Currently (or rather, before), the game handed you imaginary (cruor-gil has no real value) resources for helping people, meaning you weren't actually as generous as it seems like you think you were. You did it for fake money generated out of nothing by the server.

I am giving my cake away to someone because I am nice to them, and they give me a cake because they are being nice to me.

Now suddenly, someone starts conjuring two cakes for you every time you give someone a cake. Suddenly, giving people cake, and being given a cake doesn't feel very special anymore, and we all end up too fat to get out of our own beds.

[Demon6324236]

Difference with your analogy being that I'm not giving people gil, and gil popping right back in my inventory. This was the case in VW admittedly because you would do something like buy dust then use the cruor from the kill to turn it into over twice as much. If I went to a worm party for shits & giggles I was speeding up their kill speed a ton, at the same time I have capped merits with nothing to spend them on, I have capped xp, so no need there, and I have nothing else I get except cruor, cruor however converted to money which made it worth my time. Now that cruor is removed, I have no reason to go speed up worm parties, I have less reason to help friends with win runs on VW, I have less reason to do anything without rewards other than cruor because cruor is effectively my only reward, and is now worthless in nearly every way to me.

[Iakothm]

Well then you allow the greed of the human creature to consume your game experience. When you can help people & get things for it, all is fine, it allows both to profit & gives incentive to assist others more than just being nice. When you take away such an incentive you allow natural human greed to become a problem with helping people which can lead to people going without help, and being left on their own, something that goes against the very idea of a MMO.

.... Helping people doesn't mean getting things for yourself in return. Helping people to help them is more than enough for me. My linkshell has helped me so much in getting my gear also with missions and they didn't get anything in return for it except for the fact I help them now whenever they need it. That's how mmo's are and will be.

Difference with your analogy being that I'm not giving people gil, and gil popping right back in my inventory. This was the case in VW admittedly because you would do something like buy dust then use the cruor from the kill to turn it into over twice as much. If I went to a worm party for shits & giggles I was speeding up their kill speed a ton, at the same time I have capped merits with nothing to spend them on, I have capped xp, so no need there, and I have nothing else I get except cruor, cruor however converted to money which made it worth my time. Now that cruor is removed, I have no reason to go speed up worm parties, I have less reason to help friends with win runs on VW, I have less reason to do anything without rewards other than cruor because cruor is effectively my only reward, and is now worthless in nearly every way to me.

and this.... proves you weren't out to help people but to make money for yourself.

[Demon6324236]

No matter the reason, the point was it gave a reason for people to help eachother, which was good imo. I see far to many greedy people in this game who do whatever benefits them, and as soon as it comes to helping out others they just walk away, thats the attitude I have a problem with that cruor admittedly did help a bit.

[Mirage]

But it is the exact same with cruor! You're not helping people out of niceless, you're helping them because you get shinies. That is exactly as much greed as before.

Anyway, let me try another example.

Let's say you got 10k cruor while helping your friend out for an hour. Now you've converted this into 26k gil (using pre-nerf in this example), and walk around port jeuno checking bazaars for dynamis currency, cause you want to be a Cool Relic Guy. You buy three of them for the 26k you made earlier.

Now, what's really happened is that you paid that currency seller with the effort you gave away to your friend in abyssea earlier. You acquired something that took someone's time to gain by spending something that you did not spend time on getting. This practically means that you got the dyna currency for free (you spend no time getting money, you spent time helping someone), giving the seller nothing substantial in return, while he actually spent some time of his life specifically looking for currency.

In a way, we were "duping" gil, and SE was fine with it. Until now.