Kill Blue Mage Cooldown.......

[Afania]

I highlighted the key word there for you. Cover all magic procs and use DDs to kill the mob. Main exception to this is Botulus, where 2 magic parties is generally better and just 1 melee pt.



Personally, unless I'm low-manning for wins for ppl only, or the group has been shouting forever for a blu and we decide to give up and go with just 1, I would always take 2 BLU.



Actually their melee damage is much less than a melee RDM, since they're all wearing Chatoyant staffs and only proccing. Same as the NIN. They only tend to engage if there is a sword proc (katana obviously for NIN) and they aren't currently trying to proc a red or white magic proc. You obviously use a different strategy than groups on our server. Our proc parties are 3 BLM or 2 BLM and a rdm or sch, with 2 blu and a nin. They have no buffs so no point in meleeing anyway. With 2 Strong DD parties, it's rare that they have to even try for procs since all magic procs are covered. The only exception being a red or white dark blm proc if it's proven to be an absorb spell. DDs won't even try to get a WS proc on red unless there aren't any more magic procs to get.

Chatoyant staff seriously? You don't need to full time a staff entire time. There are only a few, REALLY few spell that will need a staff to land. Majority of them can be landed easily with a sword.

Just melee with a sword, switch to a staff if it's a spell you can't land(which rarely happen), problem solved. Full time Chatoyant staff what else are you doing in ally if proc isn't called....


Whether BLU can deal dmg without a buff or not depend on the tier of NM. B.rex/Ig-alima/Prov generally won't be much dmg at all and not worth meleeing, but T3 isn't THAT bad due to CDC being crit-hit WS and BLU generally has high crit. Unless your pt can kill those NM in less than 2 min, there are no reason not to engage and kill it faster to save everyone's time.....

I also don't see a point to use 2 BLUs in ally unless your ally can kill in less than 2 min with 2 BLU. But fat chances are 98% of /shout pt this isn't happening. Last Ig-Alima pt it took 4 min(which was beyond terrible) per kill with just 1 BLU and 1 WHM, the killing speed improved when SAM and MNK left and replaced with DRK, became about 2 min~2.5min. Add 1 more BLU to ally and that just going to be even slower. Unless I know the ally can kill the NM in 90 sec, no way I'm going to bring 2 BLU to waste spot and kill slower lol.

I BLU in VW many time, and most of the time I'm the only one, and according to my experience, I really, really rarely even need to proc to cap red, and really, really rarely need to have NM being hold until blue magic is procd. Most of the time even if BLU 3 or 5 is called, other proc still capped red and NM would die before you need another proc.

I honestly start to think BLU is completely skippable and really just there for safety net that in case you can't cap red and don't want to /fume.

For abyssea, THF/NIN, WHM/RDM and BLM/BRD and you're missing all but 3 (since can only be 1 of 3 elements on any given game day). If you're not on thunder light dark or fireday, you can scrap the whm/rdm too.

You don't need to be a good BLU or <insert job here> to tank in abyssea lol.

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Since you don't need a good BLU or any job to tank in abyssea, then the answer to AF3 pt setup is BLU/NIN with TH2 + BLM/BRD, or add WHM if you need heal/WHM stuff. Pop on right day and you cover all yellow plus you got TH2 and faster killing speed, and possibly strong AoE burn when needed to farm KI. Using a THF over BLU doesn't offer anything special except higher tier TH, but you also kill slower and may not get proc. Once you can proc yellow, higher tier TH isn't really make or break IMO. Not to mention THF/NIN has no healing ability when team up with just BLM/BRD, thus you may have harder time dealing with certain NM(if their TP move goes through shadows or nuke) or when try to AoE burn, while BLU can solo majority of NM without a healer and not needing 3rd person.

[saevel]

Our proc parties are 3 BLM or 2 BLM and a rdm or sch, with 2 blu and a nin

There are different ways to go about doing that. We rarely bring more then 1 BLU unless both of our main BLU's happen to be attending. We don't bring NIN's or PLD's (unless PLD needed for holding) but we tend to bring a THF/DNC. We have 2 BRDs, one is /PLD the other is /NIN, pretty much covers those procs. We try to always have 2 BLMs, one being /SCH.

There are usually a spot or two open for flexibility purposes, SMN comes to mind.

[Afania]

So like I said how would removing the cool down time make it overpowered?

Depend on how you define overpower. Remove cool down time won't make BLU stronger than a WAR, won't make it heal better than a WHM, it probably won't change current job role for everything we do in this game atm.

However, it will also allow BLU to be able to change pt role a lot faster, and appearantly this is against the design concept of this job. For anything you bring BLU to.

For example, a DD BLU trying to get most melee dmg out will set Triple attack/STP2/Zanshin/Counter/DW3 and so on, that leaves no room for AoE sleep/AoE dmg/cure/defensive spell and so on.

If a BLU is currently doing crowd control(inb4 "I don't do crowd control in this game", I still do in salvage/dyna.), you also need to keep 1~2 sleep spell on. And if you need evasion/more defensive ability, you need to set those too, that leaves no room for offensive ability.

The point for BLU cool down is, you can't do everything at once. If you want more defensive ability, you have to sacrifice some offensive ability. If you want to be very good at crowd control, you need to sacrifice something. If you want highest evasion reachable, you need to set those spells and will sacrifice some other aspect too.

And it will make a big difference when you solo or low man.

Of course it won't make you bring BLU over WAR to endgame content. Until SE remove 1h DD disadvantage it never will.

But you will be able to gain full access of every aspect when you solo/lowman stuff. For example, I go to limbus/dyna/salvage, I set TH to TH the mobs, then remove TH and set DD spell and kill the mob instantly. Now I aggro, so I set AoE sleep, then I aggroed another batch of mobs, I set another sleep. Now I'm all safe now, I set DD job trait/spells and begin killing really fast. I didn't expect to aggro a nuking NM, but that's fine I can just set MDB and DT- spell and cast it right away and act like a semi-Aegis PLD.....

That will change how the job worked and played completely. The point of cooldown is so that you can't do all the role on the same time and must prepare before getting into the situations. It's like a deck of cards that you build before playing with your opponent, but you don't change your deck after the game starts, if you're in disadvantage with your current deck, then you try to solve the problem with current cards at hand, not getting another deck of cards before the game ends. By removing the cool down, that will also make players change spell set alot more often than actually playing, and that just makes this job no fun at all. The point of cooldown isn't there to restrict players, but rather to let players make decision on which card to play before encountering your enemy.

I don't see VW change spell is a zomg terrible problem too. Red isn't that hard to cap, not really a big deal if some of the proc were skipped.

[Mefuki]

And besides, we'd never be able to convince SE to do away with cooldown without them completely crippling the effects of our spells.

[Zagen]

For example, a DD BLU trying to get most melee dmg out will set Triple attack/STP2/Zanshin/Counter/DW3 and so on, that leaves no room for AoE sleep/AoE dmg/cure/defensive spell and so on.

- 10% Counter means nothing when the monster is stun locked, if you can't stun lock and you're DDing it either you're able to evade, are /NIN or aren't tanking it, at which point you're gaining little from setting it.
- Zanshin I could see as useful for VW otherwise nothing you'd bring a DD BLU to should bring you below acc cap.
- STP2 (15) knocks 1 round off (assuming Almace/Ele Magian, Rajas, Brutal) or saves 3.98 seconds to 100% if you don't set STP1, if you do set STP1 then it saves you 1 round if you miss a hit otherwise you gain nothing from setting STP2 besides losing 8 points.

When I go to DD on anything first thing that's set is DW3 (unless I actually need /NIN haven't come across the need but disclaimer anyway). Second I set Triple Attack. The third thing I set is STP1 (unless the monster is immune to sudden lunge then I think about it based on what else I'd need). That takes up 37/60 plenty of room for me to set whatever I need based on the event (i.e. TH + sleep for dynamis).

But you will be able to gain full access of every aspect when you solo/lowman stuff. For example, I go to limbus/dyna/salvage, I set TH to TH the mobs, then remove TH and set DD spell and kill the mob instantly. Now I aggro, so I set AoE sleep, then I aggroed another batch of mobs, I set another sleep. Now I'm all safe now, I set DD job trait/spells and begin killing really fast. I didn't expect to aggro a nuking NM, but that's fine I can just set MDB and DT- spell and cast it right away and act like a semi-Aegis PLD.....

I can see this argument if I'm low manning something completely new otherwise, the correct answer is research and set spells accordingly, outside of being a stagger job you don't need to reset spells on the fly. Though If I didn't know what to expect and didn't bring crowd control or a healer to help I sure as hell wouldn't be setting full on DD spells expecting to walk right through random new thing.

I don't know how fast you are but even with spells set in order to allow quick changing for VW it still takes me 10-20 seconds to reset spells. Maybe I'm slow but compared to other BLUs it seems fast as hell to me I mean on average I'm popping off 2 Fanatic's in VW before I ever see another proc spell from them. Of course that is more anecdotal more than anything else.

I have no disagreement that having 0 use delay could potentially make the job stronger but I just can't see it because my BLU has no problems setting DD spells and spells relevant to a given event I'd bring it to without needing to rest mid event besides VW. Your examples were great but were more examples of being unprepared and if that's acceptable then I guess this would make BLU "overpowered", I'd rather research first but as the saying goes different strokes for different folks.

[Prothscar]

Zanshin doesn't work when you're dual wielding, not sure why I keep seeing it mentioned

[Afania]

- 10% Counter means nothing when the monster is stun locked, if you can't stun lock and you're DDing it either you're able to evade, are /NIN or aren't tanking it, at which point you're gaining little from setting it.

You don't need to stun lock if you have a healer for most things. Just DD with /WAR as usual, have healer cure you if your taking dmg. I only ever stun lock when I soloing or dealing with super dangerous NM such as DL. Otherwise it's just a waste of time to cast when you can kill faster without it.

If you're evading, you still take hit every 5 hit, so you still gains benefit from it.

Your target will bounce back and off if everyone capes enmity, so even with multiple pt member you may still gain advantage from it.

There are a lot of times that stun/refresh/cure/crowd control aren't needed and all that needed is just doing dmg, so there gonna be extra slot to set extra DD trait anyways since other spell/trait you aren't using it completely.

I can see this argument if I'm low manning something completely new otherwise, the correct answer is research and set spells accordingly, outside of being a stagger job you don't need to reset spells on the fly. Though If I didn't know what to expect and didn't bring crowd control or a healer to help I sure as hell wouldn't be setting full on DD spells expecting to walk right through random new thing.

The point is not about whether you research or not. In fact, if you already researched and knows what will come up, you just going to reset spell more often if no cool down.

Say if I do Salvage/limbus w/e, I already know next area is going to full of aggros. If there's cool down time and already researched, I will set sleep before I get into that area and same spell set entire time, and sacrifice DD spells. But if there are no cool down time, I will just go in with handful of DD spells to kill faster, reset sleep when I aggro, then reset back to DD spell and keep killing. That way actually kills faster than just set sleep before entering due to you can get more time with DD spell set on.

That actually is stronger than currently is, on top of spending more time on setting spell than actually playing or making decision before entering.

Just because we don't need to keep reset now, doesn't mean we won't keep resetting when cool down removed.

[Zagen]

If you're evading, you still take hit every 5 hit, so you still gains benefit from it.

If you'll get hit 5% of the time, of that you can counter 10% in other words 0.5% of the time you'll counter. That sounds awesome terrible for 5 points.

There are a lot of times that stun/refresh/cure/crowd control aren't needed and all that needed is just doing dmg, so there gonna be extra slot to set extra DD trait anyways since other spell/trait you aren't using it completely.

If those aren't needed why are you worried about resetting spells to set them?

The point is not about whether you research or not. In fact, if you already researched and knows what will come up, you just going to reset spell more often if no cool down.

Actually it wouldn't because what you're ignoring is that navigating the menus still take time and that time you're wasting is wasted potential, so no I wouldn't attempt to set spells mid fight when I can just set it and forget it thanks to research. Again excluding VW.

Say if I do Salvage/limbus w/e, I already know next area is going to full of aggros. If there's cool down time and already researched, I will set sleep before I get into that area and same spell set entire time, and sacrifice DD spells. But if there are no cool down time, I will just go in with handful of DD spells to kill faster, reset sleep when I aggro, then reset back to DD spell and keep killing. That way actually kills faster than just set sleep before entering due to you can get more time with DD spell set on.

Again I refer you to the set it and forget it logic. I've never thought about resetting and even if the use delay was 0 I still wouldn't reset spells in those events because I can set everything I need with 60 points.

[Afania]

If you'll get hit 5% of the time, of that you can counter 10% in other words 0.5% of the time you'll counter. That sounds awesome terrible for 5 points.

You get hit 20% of time at capped evasion, so that's 2% of time you will counter.

Of course it's not "Awesome", but in situations when you don't need stun/AoE sleep/TH/refresh/cures, it doesn't hurt to set them, it's not like you have anything else to set besides STR+ spell at that point of time.

Also a waste setting stun/sleep/TH/refresh/cures if you know you don't need them no?

If those aren't needed why are you worried about resetting spells to set them?


Actually it wouldn't because what you're ignoring is that navigating the menus still take time and that time you're wasting is wasted potential, so no I wouldn't attempt to set spells mid fight when I can just set it and forget it thanks to research. Again excluding VW.

It doesn't take awefully long to navigating menu if you do it fast enough, just WS, reset while mid-TP phrase, and finish it before 100 TP again. Of course not everyone will attempt to reset mid-fight, but for anyone seriously into min-maxing, and have max performance every second in this game, it will become an option to do so. That also take away the fun of plan ahead and build your deck of skills before you do stuff and players ended up spending more time on setting spells. I'd ended up setting battery charge and blink spell, cast them then remove them again very often just to sqeeze out extra few set point for STR spells to push more output. I haven't even mention crazier level such as setting 1 set of spell for TP and another set for WS!

Again, has nothing to do if you "don't need it", there's a difference between "don't need" and "try to be most optimal"

Again I refer you to the set it and forget it logic. I've never thought about resetting and even if the use delay was 0 I still wouldn't reset spells in those events because I can set everything I need with 60 points.

Why do you insist to set all spells needed before you go in, if you have the option to reset mid-fight for better performance and use more than 60 points if there are no cool down?

[Zagen]

You get hit 20% of time at capped evasion, so that's 2% of time you will counter.

You said 5 not me I just used your number.

Also a waste setting stun/sleep/TH/refresh/cures if you know you don't need them no?

That's why I don't when they aren't needed, I set spells for stats or DD spells.

Why do you insist to set all spells needed before you go in, if you have the option to reset mid-fight for better performance and use more than 60 points if there are no cool down?

Because there isn't a need, and despite what you think fiddling with menus causes your performance to drop. The only time there's a need is when a BLU has to stagger.