Kill Blue Mage Cooldown.......

[Babekeke]

Groups I've done VW with don't take a BLU, makes my BLU sad but then again I have DRK and other jobs available. Never had white be a BLU spell yet but it was PUP once and we just capped with yellows and reds without a problem. Even with spell timer set to 0 it wouldn't change much other than the groups that find value in BLU would bring 1 instead of 2 and be happy with the extra damage from spells, though because of how Blue Physical Attack is factored you're more likely to kill your DPS by casting spells.

Not being able to cover all magic procs in VW is fairly retarded. Unless you're low-manning just for the win but even then we'll try and have at least 1 blu 1 blm 1 brd 1 whm 1 of which is /sch, and a NIN or at least /nin.

[Zagen]

Not being able to cover all magic procs in VW is fairly retarded. Unless you're low-manning just for the win but even then we'll try and have at least 1 blu 1 blm 1 brd 1 whm 1 of which is /sch, and a NIN or at least /nin.

So then your groups take a DRG, BST, SMN, and PUP every time right?

The odds of it being a BLU spell for all red and white staggers, or even more than 1 red stagger are I dare say 0 or almost impossible if it is even possible. I have seen BLU be a yellow and red at the same time, but we still capped without a problem and without having to /fume.

Unless you bring 2 BLU and have them set every single proc spell between them you're wasting 1 minute waiting for the cool down to give them a shot to stagger if it wasn't one of the spells set already. Often times in that 1 minute lights will get capped from the rest of the stagger options getting found and then the ones that replaced them also getting found. Oh and if you bring 2 BLU with all spells so there is no delay in trying, their damage added to the group will be well on par with a Melee RDM because you forced them to set proc spells over DD utility spells.

There are "accepted" rules I've heard/read about when a BLU is welcomed and they go are something like this:
- Only reset spells if White is BLU
- Only reset spells if Red is BLU and we can't do the rest (usually small man groups)
- Don't ever reset spells because we want you helping with stuns

The cool down issue is almost exclusive to voidwatch but that's because there's actually 32 options. BLU in Abyssea is almost always excluded because playing the odds a BLM/BRD + NIN or /NIN can cover all but 8. Don't get me wrong BLU/NIN could be your tank, I've done it plenty of times but not everyone knows how to play BLU and even then fewer know how to tank with it well. Reducing the stagger spells doesn't make BLU more attractive it actually makes them less attractive because of the learning curve of the job.

[Babekeke]

Not being able to cover all magic procs in VW is fairly retarded. Unless you're low-manning just for the win but even then we'll try and have at least 1 blu 1 blm 1 brd 1 whm 1 of which is /sch, and a NIN or at least /nin.

So then your groups take a DRG, BST, SMN, and PUP every time right?

I highlighted the key word there for you. Cover all magic procs and use DDs to kill the mob. Main exception to this is Botulus, where 2 magic parties is generally better and just 1 melee pt.

The odds of it being a BLU spell for all red and white staggers, or even more than 1 red stagger are I dare say 0 or almost impossible if it is even possible. I have seen BLU be a yellow and red at the same time, but we still capped without a problem and without having to /fume.

Unless you bring 2 BLU and have them set every single proc spell between them you're wasting 1 minute waiting for the cool down to give them a shot to stagger if it wasn't one of the spells set already.

Personally, unless I'm low-manning for wins for ppl only, or the group has been shouting forever for a blu and we decide to give up and go with just 1, I would always take 2 BLU.

Often times in that 1 minute lights will get capped from the rest of the stagger options getting found and then the ones that replaced them also getting found. Oh and if you bring 2 BLU with all spells so there is no delay in trying, their damage added to the group will be well on par with a Melee RDM because you forced them to set proc spells over DD utility spells.

Actually their melee damage is much less than a melee RDM, since they're all wearing Chatoyant staffs and only proccing. Same as the NIN. They only tend to engage if there is a sword proc (katana obviously for NIN) and they aren't currently trying to proc a red or white magic proc. You obviously use a different strategy than groups on our server. Our proc parties are 3 BLM or 2 BLM and a rdm or sch, with 2 blu and a nin. They have no buffs so no point in meleeing anyway. With 2 Strong DD parties, it's rare that they have to even try for procs since all magic procs are covered. The only exception being a red or white dark blm proc if it's proven to be an absorb spell. DDs won't even try to get a WS proc on red unless there aren't any more magic procs to get.

There are "accepted" rules I've heard/read about when a BLU is welcomed and they go are something like this:
- Only reset spells if White is BLU
- Only reset spells if Red is BLU and we can't do the rest (usually small man groups)
- Don't ever reset spells because we want you helping with stuns

In my experience, like I said we almost always have 2 BLU, and if we really need help with stuns, we take a sch for that.

The cool down issue is almost exclusive to voidwatch but that's because there's actually 32 options. BLU in Abyssea is almost always excluded because playing the odds a BLM/BRD + NIN or /NIN can cover all but 8. Don't get me wrong BLU/NIN could be your tank, I've done it plenty of times but not everyone knows how to play BLU and even then fewer know how to tank with it well. Reducing the stagger spells doesn't make BLU more attractive it actually makes them less attractive because of the learning curve of the job.

For abyssea, THF/NIN, WHM/RDM and BLM/BRD and you're missing all but 3 (since can only be 1 of 3 elements on any given game day). If you're not on thunder light dark or fireday, you can scrap the whm/rdm too.

You don't need to be a good BLU or <insert job here> to tank in abyssea lol.

And I agree that lowering the number of procs is only going to make BLU even less desirable or even required in VW. SMN has 8 procs, and I rarely ever see a SMN in VW. Lower BLU procs to 8 and it will become as desirable as SMN.

So you get to set more DD-Type spells.... but you no longer get an invite. Catch #22.

[Afania]

I highlighted the key word there for you. Cover all magic procs and use DDs to kill the mob. Main exception to this is Botulus, where 2 magic parties is generally better and just 1 melee pt.



Personally, unless I'm low-manning for wins for ppl only, or the group has been shouting forever for a blu and we decide to give up and go with just 1, I would always take 2 BLU.



Actually their melee damage is much less than a melee RDM, since they're all wearing Chatoyant staffs and only proccing. Same as the NIN. They only tend to engage if there is a sword proc (katana obviously for NIN) and they aren't currently trying to proc a red or white magic proc. You obviously use a different strategy than groups on our server. Our proc parties are 3 BLM or 2 BLM and a rdm or sch, with 2 blu and a nin. They have no buffs so no point in meleeing anyway. With 2 Strong DD parties, it's rare that they have to even try for procs since all magic procs are covered. The only exception being a red or white dark blm proc if it's proven to be an absorb spell. DDs won't even try to get a WS proc on red unless there aren't any more magic procs to get.

Chatoyant staff seriously? You don't need to full time a staff entire time. There are only a few, REALLY few spell that will need a staff to land. Majority of them can be landed easily with a sword.

Just melee with a sword, switch to a staff if it's a spell you can't land(which rarely happen), problem solved. Full time Chatoyant staff what else are you doing in ally if proc isn't called....


Whether BLU can deal dmg without a buff or not depend on the tier of NM. B.rex/Ig-alima/Prov generally won't be much dmg at all and not worth meleeing, but T3 isn't THAT bad due to CDC being crit-hit WS and BLU generally has high crit. Unless your pt can kill those NM in less than 2 min, there are no reason not to engage and kill it faster to save everyone's time.....

I also don't see a point to use 2 BLUs in ally unless your ally can kill in less than 2 min with 2 BLU. But fat chances are 98% of /shout pt this isn't happening. Last Ig-Alima pt it took 4 min(which was beyond terrible) per kill with just 1 BLU and 1 WHM, the killing speed improved when SAM and MNK left and replaced with DRK, became about 2 min~2.5min. Add 1 more BLU to ally and that just going to be even slower. Unless I know the ally can kill the NM in 90 sec, no way I'm going to bring 2 BLU to waste spot and kill slower lol.

I BLU in VW many time, and most of the time I'm the only one, and according to my experience, I really, really rarely even need to proc to cap red, and really, really rarely need to have NM being hold until blue magic is procd. Most of the time even if BLU 3 or 5 is called, other proc still capped red and NM would die before you need another proc.

I honestly start to think BLU is completely skippable and really just there for safety net that in case you can't cap red and don't want to /fume.

For abyssea, THF/NIN, WHM/RDM and BLM/BRD and you're missing all but 3 (since can only be 1 of 3 elements on any given game day). If you're not on thunder light dark or fireday, you can scrap the whm/rdm too.

You don't need to be a good BLU or <insert job here> to tank in abyssea lol.

.

Since you don't need a good BLU or any job to tank in abyssea, then the answer to AF3 pt setup is BLU/NIN with TH2 + BLM/BRD, or add WHM if you need heal/WHM stuff. Pop on right day and you cover all yellow plus you got TH2 and faster killing speed, and possibly strong AoE burn when needed to farm KI. Using a THF over BLU doesn't offer anything special except higher tier TH, but you also kill slower and may not get proc. Once you can proc yellow, higher tier TH isn't really make or break IMO. Not to mention THF/NIN has no healing ability when team up with just BLM/BRD, thus you may have harder time dealing with certain NM(if their TP move goes through shadows or nuke) or when try to AoE burn, while BLU can solo majority of NM without a healer and not needing 3rd person.