NEO Nyzul 2.0

[detlef]

So people are saying that Wish was lucky with lamps... That's fine, but that should mean that anybody should be able to get lucky with lamps.

[Demon6324236]

I got Heka's body on my 1st run of Akvan. That means everyone should be able to get Heka's on their 1st run of Akvan. No, luck is luck is luck, you can not predict it and you can not say everyone will get lucky all the same, doesn't work that way. In this past week I fought Hahava dualboxing my GF & PLD Mule, my Mule got the body on the 2nd kill of the 2nd run I did with her, the 4th fight of that same set, she got another, then the 1st kill of my 3rd run, my GF's character got yet another. No one else in the entire alliance got a body that day, only me, does this mean everyone could get one? Well yes, everyone could, however luck did not permit them to, if someone really wanted that body as a drop they may be there doing 100+ kills where I only did about 30 if you add up the kills between characters, and got 3 of them.

VW is luck on a lesser scale than this because this has not just random rewards, it has the entire events progression from when you go in as a massive die roll to determine what every floor is on a massive scale. I got lucky with VW a few times in my past, however I have had no such luck with NNI, not even close. If I ever start with 8~9s I end up with 2~3s, if I start at 4~5 I get that whole run, and so on. Not that you can not win with these numbers, but my groups tend not to suck so bad I think they couldn't do it if it were reasonably doable. On another note, saying you can clear 20 floors is somewhat pointless in my eyes seeing as its also what those contain that makes it a problem or not, as I said before, Soulflayer floors suck, kill all floors when they are big and spread out, suck. If you start a kill leader floor with the NM in the room right next to you, thats a great floor, takes 10~15 seconds at most.

As I said, skill mitigates luck, it does not remove it. Luck effects everything from floor jumps to what mobs are on the floor, to what your objective is. Killing 20 floors where most are fast easy floors, is nice, but saying killing 20 floors isn't so impressive when you notice it can be so simple. However you can say you only killed 14 floors with a great team, doesn't mean you suck, it means you had floors that were kill all, where the area took 2 minutes to walk from 1 side to the other, and Soulflayers were all over causing lovely para on your DDs so they take longer to kill, or got kill leader floors where its the Soulflayer NM, and it wipes your buffs, even the great Flan NM, but your WAR wasn't the 1 to find it, and instead went the other way, and takes a minute to get there to help with Tomahawk. There is much more than simply what number of floors you complete to account for, thats why I keep saying that, and you cant really tell me I'm wrong.

[saevel]

you're lucky with lamp. we did some old nyzul climb. got 8 order from 0 to 90(+ some code or same time), and 90-100 we had a lamp 1floor/2 (luckly only code and same time)

I've been doing a ton of NNI, typically you get 1 lamp floor per 8~10 jumps. Some runs they won't appear, other will have three of them.

I watched the videos and spotted a few interesting things. Either SE is being INCREDIBLY nice to wish's group and not giving them huge floors, or his/her melee's are doing "magic". Wish was moving entirely too slow to clear 16~17 floors, there is a reason he's the "lamp b!tch".

[wish12oz]

Wish was moving entirely too slow to clear 16~17 floors, there is a reason he's the "lamp b!tch".

Yo dawg, SCH mule is like a week and a half old, and I havent played a mage job seriously since RDM in 2004->2006. And I will openly admit I am effing terrible at it. I suck so bad at SCH it's not even funny. It takes me forever to notice people are dieing, find macros to cure people, use the right JAs before buffs, cast NA spells, sleep things, learn regen duration timing to recast it properly, etc. I can personally improve a ton, and that would greatly help my groups kill speed and increase our floor count. So I have been bringing my SCH to different stuff, like VW and whatever I see shouts for, to try and get use to playing it, but man, it's tough learning to do something new.

As far as luck goes, I had one run that seriously went awesome. 2 free floors, tons of good floor jumps, took us 15~ minutes to hit 85, then every single floor jump we got for second half of the run was 2-3 floors. hit 96 with 3~ min left, hit 98 with 2 minutes left, and it was the most massive floor I ever seen, and it was kill all. So we timed out. But you know what? Who cares. Our win rate is still 40-50%, which means we will lose half of them. This is expected.

When I say things like, a normal group should expect to clear 16-17 floors on average, and will win once a week, that means you will lose 6x in a week, due to 'bad luck' or whatever you want it call it. I call it expected, and not something to worry about. The number of floors on average your group can clear in a run is the only determining factor in how long it will take you to progress all the way through and get all 15 pieces of gear, if you want them. Because I go into the zone only expecting to win 30-50% of them, I don't find it surprising when I get completely screwed over half the time and time out on 95+.

[wish12oz]

Day before yesterday I did 2 neo nyzul runs, won one of them. Today did 3 more, won one of them. I'll be posting a new video of new runs on my youtube later tonight or, more likely, tomorrow and come back and post a link here too. The point of this post is to say that in 2~ weeks I have managed to acquire every piece of gear from this event my mule needs, while people like Pchan complain that it's to hard and impossible to win and wait for SE to "fix" the event. Good luck to the rest of you with finishing this event, if you want any tips feel free to ask.



Edit: Just for refference- 7 wins, and only 1 win had an order lamp floor. lol

[wish12oz]

Part 1: http://youtu.be/zfSsZS60DjI
Part 2: http://youtu.be/4Pd4FDemLOM

This new video even has sound! Totally managed to not mess up the sound while editing this time. This run we only did 18 floors total, which isn't bad, but we only had like 1 minute left after we won, lol.

[Bojack]

The problem is with the 'easy' atmosphere Abyssea created. After the Abyssea Era people don't want to wait any longer than they have to to get what they want and that includes cheating to get it done faster if necessary. Not to mention the fact that after Abyssea it is likely that the majority of players has a job at 99 that can wear each of the NNI sets. So now you have people that want all 15 pieces who just got done with the ease of Abyssea being able to finish things in days. They don't want to wait 5 or 6 months getting 1 piece of gear every week or2 and they will cheat to make sure they get it all much faster.

[Phogg]

The problem is with the 'easy' atmosphere Abyssea created. After the Abyssea Era people don't want to wait any longer than they have to to get what they want and that includes cheating to get it done faster if necessary. Not to mention the fact that after Abyssea it is likely that the majority of players has a job at 99 that can wear each of the NNI sets. So now you have people that want all 15 pieces who just got done with the ease of Abyssea being able to finish things in days. They don't want to wait 5 or 6 months getting 1 piece of gear every week or2 and they will cheat to make sure they get it all much faster.

Because nobody cheated before abyssea......

[Demon6324236]

Abyssea simply added a better Reward/Effort ratio, now that it has passed people want to see more than the same since we saw that SE is not completely unable to do a good amount of rewards for effort. I am sorry to tell you but I don't find it fun or enjoyable, to do the same thing over and over again, without reward, or progress. NNI is not progressive, its luck, plain and simple. Each run I can get lucky, or unlucky, I get nothing toward a reward, if I do, its 1/25th of a single piece of gear a day. I see 1 piece of gear for a month of work/time, as a bad reward/effort ratio.

[saevel]

Abyssea simply added a better Reward/Effort ratio, now that it has passed people want to see more than the same since we saw that SE is not completely unable to do a good amount of rewards for effort. I am sorry to tell you but I don't find it fun or enjoyable, to do the same thing over and over again, without reward, or progress. NNI is not progressive, its luck, plain and simple. Each run I can get lucky, or unlucky, I get nothing toward a reward, if I do, its 1/25th of a single piece of gear a day. I see 1 piece of gear for a month of work/time, as a bad reward/effort ratio.

It's not so much progress as goal / game style. FFXI was designed in 2001~2002, people need to keep this in mind. The big MMO at the time was EQ and trust me, EQ SUCKED for effort / reward ratios. Just leveling to cap was considered an epic accomplishment on pre-abyssea Relic acquisition level. The game's primary content was focused on you leveling your character and their associated skills. It was more a social activity then a video game. FFXI was modeled more in this manor, that was Tanaka's vision.

Then Blizzzard released WoW and showed everyone that you don't need to be a social / grind focused game to be successful. Blizzard combined elements of FPS / Action Adventure games into MMO RPG character building. It made the game much more interactive, your primary source of fun game in running around killing murgs for their shinys. Leveling / skilling become something you did to get to the "real" fun.

That is what abyssea was to FFXI and why Tanaka hated it so much. The gear acquisition rate is a side effect of making battle focused interactive content. Abyssea wasn't about story or social interactions, it was about killing murgs for their shinys and getting enough shinys to allow you to kill faster to get even more shinys. That is why there is a portion of the community that absolutely hates Abyssea, their wanting a more social old-fashioned MMO experience while the rest of us want a more battle for rewards / goals focused MMO experienced. The new guy seems to be more of the later crowd and I'm thankful for it.