The Melee Mage

[Nawesemo]

You mean like how a war is crucified for using a one hander and a shield..... Maybe because of things like that.

[SpankWustler]

You mean like how a war is crucified for using a one hander and a shield..... Maybe because of things like that.

I'm not sure this is the best comparison, unless your point is that somebody dumb is out there somewhere trying to Stun something awful while armed with a whacking device instead of an Apamajas II.

That guy is definitely out there, just waiting for his big chance to make the world a worse place; but fighting difficult monsters isn't the only situation in FFXI these days. There are a lot of low-level monsters out there, some of them just waiting to drop currency or alexandrite.

All Warriors always have the goal of killing a monster in mind, or at least should, so using worse weapons only moves toward the same goal more slowly and more horribly.

If a mage's goal is to provide twice the Box Steps to help a !! magically appear over a giant mushroom's head more quickly, standing at 20.1 distance isn't going to help much with that.

[Nawesemo]

Just because I "can" tank any given abyssea NM on Whm doesnt mean I should. Rdms want to melee fine and dandy, but they do it wrong given the situation, and yes they will get the "wtf" attitude, I know some of the best rdms around, f'in elvaans at that, and they make all sorts of noise with their swords, but if given better options for melee dmg, I or anyone for that matter wont choose a rdm over a well geared war for that last dmg spot, .......anything else, yeah gear how you like, but rdm spot isn't up front all that often, yes they "can", but given better options, ....... Yeah this been brought up and shut down so many times..... Pld has More to complain about the glorious rdms on damage alone..... There isn't anything wrong with the cog that fills all holes, other than there being better cogs made for those holes.... Love red mage, but it still is a support job that can dd well. Be happy with that.

[Garota]

Martial Mages Mortal Mashfest Nobody else seems to like the idea. I personally added 5/5 Shattersoul and I use it often when I'm on SCH doing low man stuff such as Salvage, Limbus, Nyzul and other smaller scale events. But that's about as much fun as I get as a melee mage.

[Demon6324236]

Just because I "can" tank any given abyssea NM on Whm doesnt mean I should. Rdms want to melee fine and dandy, but they do it wrong given the situation, and yes they will get the "wtf" attitude, I know some of the best rdms around, f'in elvaans at that, and they make all sorts of noise with their swords, but if given better options for melee dmg, I or anyone for that matter wont choose a rdm over a well geared war for that last dmg spot, .......anything else, yeah gear how you like, but rdm spot isn't up front all that often, yes they "can", but given better options, ....... Yeah this been brought up and shut down so many times..... Pld has More to complain about the glorious rdms on damage alone..... There isn't anything wrong with the cog that fills all holes, other than there being better cogs made for those holes.... Love red mage, but it still is a support job that can dd well. Be happy with that.

The reason RDM can not easily fulfill a front line role easily is because SE never gives the melee side much attention. It shows all throughout the job, and is sad because it is meant to be a mix of melee & mage. A quote from a post I made earlier today...

Would it kill them to give us at least some job traits for melee? I mean seriously if you look down our current list we have...

Magic Attack Bonus I~III
Magic Defense Bonus I~III
Fast Cast I~V
Clear Mind I~III
Shield Mastery I~II
Resist Petrify I~II
Magic Burst Bonus I~III
Tranquil Heart

But thats kinda sad when you look at a job meant to be a fighter and a mage in one, because there is only 1 slightly fighter like trait in the list, and its defensive, not to mention we first get it at level 87! I think we should get some melee traits as well...

Look at our job abilities as well...

Chainspell - Allows instant cast and recast of magic.
Convert - Swaps the users HP & MP.
Composure - Enhances our Enhancing Magic.
Saboteur - Enhances our enfeebling magic.
Spontaneity - gives us 1 instantly cast spell.

The only ability in this list which is possibly melee or front line oriented is Convert, because you can keep your MP back and use Convert for an instant, last ditch effort, to heal yourself. However unless silenced, you would have absolutely no reason to do so as using a simply Cure IV will likely give you just as much HP for much less MP.

From level 1 all the way until 99 we have at most 2 front line abilities or traits, there is a reason why we seem to be more of a support job, however if SE did what they should, and changed this, RDM would be much better off. I think that also follows the idea of this thread seeing as its about helping mages melee, and should not be only in gear, but in other aspects as well. Admittedly giving BLM Attack Bonus or WHM Dual Wield is not what I am talking about, but for RDM specifically, the job which was meant to be a hybrid job to fill all roles, it should have a few more traits to boost its abilities in a front line role. You said RDM is a support job that can DD well, honestly thats not what it should be, or have ever been, it should be a hybrid that can do everything well, but not be the best at everything either.

[Demon6324236]

Martial Mages Mortal Mashfest Nobody else seems to like the idea. I personally added 5/5 Shattersoul and I use it often when I'm on SCH doing low man stuff such as Salvage, Limbus, Nyzul and other smaller scale events. But that's about as much fun as I get as a melee mage.

I am under the idea that if you have a good enough SCH, you could probably go do Neo-Nyzul and events like it that love Embrava, but do it with the SCH DDing as well. For instance if you have a NNI group and everyone can keep themselves up without needing cures, throw some Haste gear on the SCH that doesn't stay at the lamp, with their Regain, Haste, and Embrava, they can do a great job beating things to death with a stick, especially if you have a good enough Shattersoul build!

[Nawesemo]

O.i.c, you want to see real dd #'s out of a rdm..... Geared properly, I just don't think its possible, they did make the other jobs for a reason ya know..... Think about it.... Rdm zomg I just did 7k with my almace at capped haste..... War >.>. /em throws his ukon in the dirt. Rdm does what its supose to, kudos to those who force more out of em and do things that others can't, but making rdm more gear to melee on par with "dd's" is just never going to happen..... Be a war you want to zomg, .... If you want to do it on rdm, that's cool to, but it was never ment to be on par with actual factual front line jobs.... They "can" but someone else probably will do it better, unless its casting slow 2, Dia 3 etc......

[Demon6324236]

O.i.c, you want to see real dd #'s out of a rdm..... Geared properly, I just don't think its possible, they did make the other jobs for a reason ya know..... Think about it.... Rdm zomg I just did 7k with my almace at capped haste..... War >.>. /em throws his ukon in the dirt. Rdm does what its supose to, kudos to those who force more out of em and do things that others can't, but making rdm more gear to melee on par with "dd's" is just never going to happen..... Be a war you want to zomg, .... If you want to do it on rdm, that's cool to, but it was never ment to be on par with actual factual front line jobs.... They "can" but someone else probably will do it better, unless its casting slow 2, Dia 3 etc......

You said RDM is a support job that can DD well, honestly thats not what it should be, or have ever been, it should be a hybrid that can do everything well, but not be the best at everything either.

Last part of everything I said. I am not saying in any way, shape, or form, that a RDM should out DD a WAR, SAM, DRK, MNK, or DRG... Please understand that before you bother to ever reply to anything I ever say about a RDM meleeing. I want RDM to have a more respectable amount of melee power, that is all. As I showed, we are very heavy on our mage side in every way, which goes against the entire idea of RDM being a Hybrid job. To add another instance, look at BLU, its a correct Hybrid job in terms of gear & abilities if you choose to be. BLU has the ability to get traits it needs for good DDing power, and is on great gear to cover it as well. A few instances of this are with these 2 sets...


Look at these sets and tell me if you notice a reoccurring job in here... BLU. BLU was put on Aurore, not the best pieces of gear for melee, but some basic stuff, it was also put on Teal. Now look where RDM is, its on the mage only piece, same with almost all of our traits. This is what I want changed, I want to stop losing out on every piece of good gear for melee that is made for light/1 hand DDs, but excludes RDM. More examples of amazing gear that leaves RDM behind are...

The closest RDM has to this, is...

The only advantage the RDM body has, is the STP. It has 3 more attack, but thats made up for by the 3 more STR Toci's has, Toci's also has DEX, something for 1 of our best WSs on Sword, and the best non-Relic/Merit Dagger WS for RDM as well. Not to mention the accuracy+10 along with it, something RDM needs for melee. The head is another case for this same set, RDM was left out, alot of STR on it, has a set bonus with a great body, and is one of the best Haste pieces, I would surely use it over Zelus if given the choice. The list goes on however, there is Athos and Thaumas as well, not to mention I'm sure there are even more pieces of gear that don't come to mind right now, but RDM is left off of them. The majority of the high end gear sets that RDM is put on is mage only gear, like...


Which is by no means bad, but notice that 2nd body, yet again, BLU takes a place on a great piece, and leaves RDM off of the other pieces such as...

Which are from the same event, same as Heka's/Toci's, Teal/Aurore, and again, BLU is on the mage pieces as well as the melee pieces.

To recap.
I do not want RDM to be the best DD ever, I want RDM to have a place as a DD, and receive melee gear.
I want RDM to be treated as a Hybrid, not a mage, it was clearly designed as a Hybrid at the start, it was the only job with access to both light & dark magic, while having the power to melee with multiple weapon types. RDM has also gotten a sword as every form of its weapon to go with the job, except Relic in which it also received dagger. AF, Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean, are all swords, which match the Hybrid nature of the job, but gear is at a loss because RDM only gets mage gear, unlike BLU which often gets both mage, and light DD gear from event gear sets.

I think my point on weapons has now been made.

Lastly I am not trying to offend you, troll you, or in any way insult you. However it seemed as if you ignored my points and instead went on to say that I was asking for something far different than what I said, and even seemed to ignore the end of my post as it goes completely against what you seem to believe I was saying.

Sorry to everyone that I took up half the page to say all of this, but I do seriously think RDM needs to be taken into consideration on how it is being acted upon in contrast to BLU, where it is given only mage related things for the most part, and has not been treated as the other Hybrid has.

[Nawesemo]

Red MAGE. IDK What your going on about, rdm can use a sword one over many other MAGE, rdm en spells, phalanx haste 2, .... Yeah, rdm melees fine. Aside from not being able to out parse real dd.

[Demon6324236]

Red MAGE. IDK What your going on about, rdm can use a sword one over many other MAGE, rdm en spells, phalanx haste 2, .... Yeah, rdm melees fine. Aside from not being able to out parse real dd.

Blue MAGE has access to alot of gear we don't that is on the melee side and makes the very powerful, stop trying to use the name of the job to say it should suck at DDing. If you rather I can go get myself 20 pieces of gear with BLU and not RDM on them that show just how much stats they can get off gear that RDM doesn't, even though they are a MAGE.

You probably don't get what I'm saying because your not paying attention.