In case meriting protectra V wasn't bad enough...

[Babekeke]

At the end of the day, the only reason that people bother with a merit in protectra V over accession or just pro 4 is that neither Martyr or Devotion ever get enough use. Unless, of course Legion requirements are different. There are no atmas/atmacites there, and also no temps. Devotion may well be a much higher requirement in Legion?

The alternative to fixing defense, would have been to make devotion target alliance members too! Do both and then we will be torn between which is more useful once again

[InsideOut]

^ That would be badass if it ever happened.

I'm in the main party, actually, we don't have any healers in the mage party (unless you count the SCHs?) unless you're talking about a Bismark run in which I Devo the PLD who's supertanking the babies... other than that, I don't actually waste MP or a Strategem (although you keep saying it's a waste, without saying what else I should be using them for pre-fight).

Funny thing is, you're more against me doing Accession than I am against putting merits in Protectra V. Hmm....

*retracts claws*
I use stratagems a lot. Even after I've Accession+Stoneskin my party and Accession+ShellV a party in need, I am still waiting for a new stratagem to come in so I can Cure4-ga another party and use penury Cure6 on my strongest DDs so they receive a capped stoneskin effect. If someone dies, I'd like to have Celerity ready so I can cast raise within a few seconds. When Red or White staggers are trigged, that is my time to rush in and recast Stoneskin on my party(and other buffs).There are so many slow and crappy white mages out there who might as well be mules or dual boxing another character in two separate voidwatch runs.lol

Even if using Accession to protect your party does not affect your ability as a white mage, it is still wasting triple your MP, you are having to hit a job ability before you can Protect your party, and you are using a stratagem. Putting a merit in Protectra V is silly but I get more use out of that +5 defense than I have ever gotten out of Devotion.

[Dantedmc]

One merit in Protectra V does not a full potency Protectra V make. That's why we're looking at potential revisions to the spell. But using mediocre merits for the sake of helping your party isn't the answer. The point of this entire thread is how underdeveloped Protectra V is. Subscribing to "just put 1 merit in it" proves that point; and I have no desire to hinder my merit choices for the sake humoring those who are proving in each passing post they they don't care about being better than "ok" at WHM.

Don't really see what you're saying. 1 Merit in Protectra V is the same as Protect V, 60 Defense. If you can't realize that 24.2% mdt on another party is much better and that you can have both then I think you need to stop calling others the "ok" whms. The fact that you would rather not give the entire mage party shell V then drop 5% potency from an ability that is hardly ever used is silly.

It's also getting really old how anyone who disagrees with you is somehow an "ok" whm. No my whm is not as geared as my sch, but it has appropriate gear. I have 50% potency with the +2 body, I have -80% cct, capped enhancing for boosts, and near capped for barspells. I have all my refresh idle gear. Just because someone doesn't feel like 5/5'ing an ability they may never use doesn't make them any less of a whm.

[saevel]

The difference is that at least Devotion does ~something~, regardless of how little you think it is. 1 in Protectra V is the same as you only have 9 Tier II merits. Difference between it and Protectra IV is so little that it effectively doesn't exist, functionally it's the same, thus your spending a merit point on a spell you already have.

[Dantedmc]

First, the difference from one merit in devotion is < 100 mp (around 50-75 mp) unless you have an mp+ set that is wasting inventory. That's not doing really much, especially when IT IS NEVER USED!

Second, I was comparing protectra V to accession protect V, because LLana had stated that he/she would rather accession protect V his or her own party, than use shell V on the mage party, with the excuse that the mage party should never be in range. If you can't find an issue with that than I don't know.

[InsideOut]

saevel, if someone refuses to unlock Protectra V then at least be smart enough to use Protectra IV instead of Accession + Protect V. That is a ridiculous move.

That's(5/5 merits in Devotion) not doing really much, especially when IT IS NEVER USED!

Second, I was comparing protectra V to accession protect V, because LLana had stated that he/she would rather accession protect V his or her own party, than use shell V on the mage party, with the excuse that the mage party should never be in range. If you can't find an issue with that than I don't know.

Exactly. No matter how it's flipped, a WHM using Accession+ Protect V on their own party is just wasteful.

[saevel]

I've used Devotion constantly on my cure mule. During various runs I've asked my WHM's to devotion me. I'm living breathing proof that Devotion has a use, rather niche but it's use does exist. Protectra V has no use, its a merit for a spell you already have. As having devotion does not impair your performance, nor does it interfere with Shellra V, any use it would have would effectively be greater then 0, thus Devotion > Protectra V. If the reasoning to having Protectra V is "to have all my spells" then that's fine, I won't begrudge that, just state it as such and then attempt to argue that something with no value is worth more then something with little value.

Accession Protect V matters absolutely not a lick, it's 30min duration spell that's cast prior to any event actually happening. It's MP cost and Time / Recast are meaningless as they don't effect the actual event. In the middle of the event you won't be recasting it, period. You might as well argue that a WHM should be wearing their full refresh idle set outside of events when their at full MP.

[Llana_Virren]

Second, I was comparing protectra V to accession protect V, because LLana had stated that he/she would rather accession protect V his or her own party, than use shell V on the mage party, with the excuse that the mage party should never be in range. If you can't find an issue with that than I don't know.

Typically speaking the second DD party has had a WHM (or we have a SCH who puts shell on them) so I don't need to Accession>Shell V the second party. The third (mage) party however shouldn't be getting hit with anything; or they can keep Fools' up. There's no need to Accession a spell to a party that isn't going to actually benefit from said spell, with the exception of course of enclosed battlefields where no one can get out of magic range. But those are special circumstances, not ever day occurrences.

[Dragoy]

What comes to Devotion, I recently took off the full merits from Protectra to give that one a bit more of a boost since Protect isn't exactly as useful as it should be.

I usually play in a 3-4 member party, so anyone can figure there are times that Devotion is of use.
As for events with more people, it's likely not nearly as useful fer sure. I guess it is more of a low-man or woman party thing, unless a group especially plans a strategy using it to their advantage, which they don't.


Blubb.

[InsideOut]

I agree Dragoy. Devotions main use is in small parties or when playing in big battles where a Paladin is truly expected to tank.

I've used Devotion constantly on my cure mule. During various runs I've asked my WHM's to devotion me. I'm living breathing proof that Devotion has a use, rather niche but it's use does exist. Protectra V has no use, its a merit for a spell you already have. As having devotion does not impair your performance, nor does it interfere with Shellra V, any use it would have would effectively be greater then 0, thus Devotion > Protectra V. If the reasoning to having Protectra V is "to have all my spells" then that's fine, I won't begrudge that, just state it as such and then attempt to argue that something with no value is worth more then something with little value.

Accession Protect V matters absolutely not a lick, it's 30min duration spell that's cast prior to any event actually happening. It's MP cost and Time / Recast are meaningless as they don't effect the actual event. In the middle of the event you won't be recasting it, period. You might as well argue that a WHM should be wearing their full refresh idle set outside of events when their at full MP.

There are many mobs that dispel buffs during events. In Legion, buffs are constantly being dispelled and since we do not have the luxury of temp items or refresh atmas, wasteful MP is an issue. You will have to recast Protectra between waves and right before your DDs begin to fight another NM that turns them into MP sponges. My idle set has 8 to 9 MP Refresh and sometimes that is not enough to keep up in Legion because we spam cures and curagas as we hop from NM to NM. During these fights you are better off using your stratagems for cure related purposes and Accession+Stoneskin, not wasting 252 MP and a stratagem on an 84MP spell that you should have already have (Protectra IV or V).