New enhancing spell for RDM to promote party support.

[SpankWustler]

That's because instead of allowing both camps to play their way, the devs lean towards one and the other is neglected. When the other is neglected, it doesn't play up to par in party play (AKA the very thing FFXI was designed around). Then it snowballs and creates things like lolmelee and refreshbot.

Since the level cap increases began, the Development Bros have given Red Mage the same amount of near-nothing whether you want to hit things or not.

The addition of Almace and Magian staves, the two largest improvements the job has gotten going from 75 to 99, seems like an even break to me.

Temper but few new pieces of melee equipment. Given how Dynamis works now, how much content involves monsters we are now 10+ levels above, and that Campaign is actually profitable; there are more places for a mage to melee productively than ever. So, why not add some more equipment for that vile task?

Awesome abilities and bonuses to use with Enhancing and Enfeebling spells yet no amazing new spells to use them on. Where's a super-duper powerful enhancing spell that would require +95% duration to be maintained full-time on one person? Where's a new enfeebling spell that isn't Addle and doesn't suck?

Red Mage would benefit a lot from the kind of examination that White Mage, Black Mage, and Scholar have received recently. The job is not the magical powerhouse it was in 2006. It's more of an outhouse with moderately enchanted toilet paper.

[tyrantsyn]

That's because instead of allowing both camps to play their way, the devs lean towards one and the other is neglected. When the other is neglected, it doesn't play up to par in party play (AKA the very thing FFXI was designed around). Then it snowballs and creates things like lolmelee and refreshbot.
Except that when we make melee threads, it's somehow alright to have the same trolls and naysayers invade our threads and tell us to shut up and embrace party support. Goes with that saying about people in glass houses and all.

Title of thread : New enhancing spell for RDM to promote party support

I don't knock RDM melee, I enjoy it, I use it in Dynamis, Campaign, and farming or when ever the feeling strikes me. What I said is that it didn't have it's place here. I'm not saying anything else about this.

In a game base around party support, RDM is too selfish of a job in it's current state. It's spell list needs to be reviewed and have some of this self targeted only spell changed over to single targeted spell's. It seems a little silly to me that bar spells whether self targeted or aoe both share the same amount of potency and are only base on the casters enhancing magic skill. The same goes for the gain and boost line spell's. It further bother's me because we were told in another thread that because of the way the haste spell is, that it could not be made accesssion~able do to the fact that it was create as a single targeted spell and as a aoe would be to powerful. So why is it that bar/bar~ra/gain/boost line spells all share the same potency? Shouldn't this be adjusted as well in the line of thinking with the haste spell potency?

[Duelle]

Title of thread : New enhancing spell for RDM to promote party support

I don't knock RDM melee, I enjoy it, I use it in Dynamis, Campaign, and farming or when ever the feeling strikes me. What I said is that it didn't have it's place here.

Just like gems like "ask for something 'useful' instead of buffs for lolmelee" did not belong in the melee thread(s). It's nothing to get bent out of shape over, again going back to the saying about people in glass houses. Either way, since you're dropping the subject, so will I.

In a game base around party support, RDM is too selfish of a job in it's current state. It's spell list needs to be reviewed and have some of this self targeted only spell changed over to single targeted spell's.

All that does is try to turn Red Mage into Oracle or Green Mage.

It seems a little silly to me that bar spells whether self targeted or aoe both share the same amount of potency and are only base on the casters enhancing magic skill. The same goes for the gain and boost line spell's.

Since I'm at work, I can't pull up the Japanese concept, but RDM's manifesto clearly includes self-buffing. The guy that translated that to English for some reason decided to replace that with the "buffs allies to demigods" nonsense. I don't know if he was taking creative liberties with interpretation or something. The self-buffs the job possesses is par the course for RDM, believe it or not.

[hideka]

ITT: I'd rather be useless at everything than useful at something.

Boring and mind numbing is how many of the playerbase feels about Whm, that doesn't change its usefulness.

yea? dunno if you know, but about 50% of the active whm population these days are bots, not players, since its easier to grind a bot up in abyssea and have it follow you arround so that you dont have to pull someones teeth out of their heads to play whitemage. and proramming a timed script that auto rebuffs everyone for a RDM mule is freakin childs play, any C+ novice kid could code that out, and since its all client side scripting, GMs really cant prove that the person is Scripting, since if they decided they wanted to take a peek at your PCs processes, theyd be signing your check for an invasion of privacy settlement the same day.

[SpankWustler]

yea? dunno if you know, but about 50% of the active whm population these days are bots, not players, since its easier to grind a bot up in abyssea and have it follow you arround so that you dont have to pull someones teeth out of their heads to play whitemage. and proramming a timed script that auto rebuffs everyone for a RDM mule is freakin childs play, any C+ novice kid could code that out, and since its all client side scripting, GMs really cant prove that the person is Scripting, since if they decided they wanted to take a peek at your PCs processes, theyd be signing your check for an invasion of privacy settlement the same day.

This has more to do with the necessity or utility of having a pocket White Mage than the simplicity of the job. I think so many people being inclined to pay thirteen extra bucks a month and mess with two characters at once in order to always have access to an often-mediocre White Mage is a profound testament to how awesome the job is.

Honestly, outside of switching into -% Damage Taken sets and engaging new enemies, every job in FFXI could run using a script and perform far better than the worst players opt to play that job.

[saevel]

The guy who started the thread isn't even a RDM, doesn't play the job and never intends to play the job. The fact he thought Composure allows us to cast triple duration buffs on other players demonstrates that quite well. The question was asked so that he could receive buffs to his other jobs.

RDM is not a buffing job, SE has come out and told us this, so stop trying to make it into one. In case nobody's been listening lately, SE is awfully stubborn about something once they've made their mind up. SE has no plans to turn RDM into BRD, COR or WHM. That RDM was used as a WHM replacement and went around soloing a bunch of stuff made SE hesitant to do anything with the job. Does the fact that RDM doesn't get a single cure nor party targetable buff past 48 not kinda nail that point home?

In the developers minds, to paraphrase the JP post, RDM's will buff themselves into demigod status while supporting the party by debuffing the monsters. Everything SE's done up to this point has been inline with that statement. The only issue is that enfeebles currently don't do much, so the "supporting party by debuffing" isn't working as imagined.

[saevel]

I forgot to comment on this gem of a line earlier.

'Because SE says so' does not make their remark absolute.

Yes it does actually, when the people who write the code that runs the game say something, that's about as absolute as you can get in a make believe video game. If SE said "the servers will turn off tomorrow" we could be reasonably certain that they would absolutely turn off tomorrow. If SE said they will not take your credit card payment info anymore, then you can be reasonably certain that if you were paying with a CC that it would no longer work. And later if SE said they would allow your to pay with a CC, then you can be reasonably certain that it would work again.

There is no higher power in this video game then SE themselves. No one to appeal to, no way to force them to do what you want them to do. So NQ, it seems your argument isn't with us but with SE themselves. And seeing as jokes are constantly being made about SE and their "Barance", I wish you well with your campaign to change the Devs mind. Hey if you work really hard you might succeed and they could change their mind like they did with VWNM and letting others have your R/EX drops, ... ohh wait ....

[Daniel_Hatcher]

The guy who started the thread isn't even a RDM, doesn't play the job and never intends to play the job. The fact he thought Composure allows us to cast triple duration buffs on other players demonstrates that quite well. The question was asked so that he could receive buffs to his other jobs.

RDM is not a buffing job, SE has come out and told us this, so stop trying to make it into one. In case nobody's been listening lately, SE is awfully stubborn about something once they've made their mind up. SE has no plans to turn RDM into BRD, COR or WHM. That RDM was used as a WHM replacement and went around soloing a bunch of stuff made SE hesitant to do anything with the job. Does the fact that RDM doesn't get a single cure nor party targetable buff past 48 not kinda nail that point home?

In the developers minds, to paraphrase the JP post, RDM's will buff themselves into demigod status while supporting the party by debuffing the monsters. Everything SE's done up to this point has been inline with that statement. The only issue is that enfeebles currently don't do much, so the "supporting party by debuffing" isn't working as imagined.

Enhancing isn't all that anyway, I'd hardly class 20% DA, 25 of one stat etc... as Demigod worthy.

[Neisan_Quetz]

I forgot to comment on this gem of a line earlier.



Yes it does actually, when the people who write the code that runs the game say something, that's about as absolute as you can get in a make believe video game. If SE said "the servers will turn off tomorrow" we could be reasonably certain that they would absolutely turn off tomorrow. If SE said they will not take your credit card payment info anymore, then you can be reasonably certain that if you were paying with a CC that it would no longer work. And later if SE said they would allow your to pay with a CC, then you can be reasonably certain that it would work again.

There is no higher power in this video game then SE themselves. No one to appeal to, no way to force them to do what you want them to do. So NQ, it seems your argument isn't with us but with SE themselves. And seeing as jokes are constantly being made about SE and their "Barance", I wish you well with your campaign to change the Devs mind. Hey if you work really hard you might succeed and they could change their mind like they did with VWNM and letting others have your R/EX drops, ... ohh wait ....

SE making bad design choices doesn't give them a 'get out of jail free' card to continue making poor design choices. You just sound like a SE apologist right now.

[SpankWustler]

Yes it does actually, when the people who write the code that runs the game say something, that's about as absolute as you can get in a make believe video game. If SE said "the servers will turn off tomorrow" we could be reasonably certain that they would absolutely turn off tomorrow. If SE said they will not take your credit card payment info anymore, then you can be reasonably certain that if you were paying with a CC that it would no longer work. And later if SE said they would allow your to pay with a CC, then you can be reasonably certain that it would work again.

There is no higher power in this video game then SE themselves. No one to appeal to, no way to force them to do what you want them to do. So NQ, it seems your argument isn't with us but with SE themselves. And seeing as jokes are constantly being made about SE and their "Barance", I wish you well with your campaign to change the Devs mind. Hey if you work really hard you might succeed and they could change their mind like they did with VWNM and letting others have your R/EX drops, ... ohh wait ....

How much they believe in their own goals doesn't make those goals worthwhile, and particularly does not indicate their means of accomplishing those goals are effective.

Their vision for Red Mage sounds completely ridiculous compared to how the job actually functions. The English version also sounded completely ridiculous compared to how the job actually functions, of course, but at least it had an optimistic glow about it.

The Japanese version implies that they think +25 of a base statistic and Temper are super-duper useful and job-defining and that Slow and Paralyze are as helpful now as they were in 2006 (the English version also implied this, but it's still dumb). Which, while not the least bit surprising, remains depressing.