Double attack vs haste

[Cream_Soda]

By who? Who came up with these equations? Anyone you know? Have you seen the code for yourself?

Kirschy has done a lot of extensive testing on haste. While I'm sure she didn't make the formulas, she has certainly tested and confirmed them numerous times.

As for damage lost, look long term, DA isn't going to make up that damage lost, and therefore you deal less DoT. I think a few hundred Yagudo's are fair enough for a good test.

You don't know how DA works and you don't know how STR works. Any test you do based on eye balling is invalid.

Ok, what was your average damage/hit with str+5 and without str+5. I'm not looking for 40-70 damage difference, I'm looking at an exact average.

For example.
Let's say you hit 10 times. 100 101 93 95 110 89 115 102 101 105. out of those 10 hits, your average damage/punch is 101.1 If you don't have an average before str and an average after str with an exact number of hits used, then your "testing" is 100% invalid.

Believe what you want, replace STR and Haste gear if you like, I won't be as previously mentioned. Because at the end of the day, there are many theories on dmg output floating around, to follow them blindly puts you in the same boat as everyone who once thought the world was flat.

Again, I would really be willing to bet my Corsair could out damage your monk.

[Cream_Soda]

Alot of people seem to be backing up the fSTR theory...

If you believe in this theory, explain to me how going from 82 STR to 77 STR can result in a loss of 40~50 DMG while fighting Yagudo Assassins in Castle Oztroja. Go.

Because you're eyeballing your results and are misaccurately measuring your damage. Again, as stated in my previous post. Give me an exact average before 5 str and an exact average after 5 str. If you can't do that, your testing means nothing.

[Greatguardian]

The guy says he averages 5 attacks per round.

Averages.

5 per round.

By your selective memories combined, I am Captain Eyeballing.

(MNK/WAR with Apoc/A&O/VV atmas with Brutal/Epona's, KA merits, Tantra neck, 5/5 AF3+2, etc can only average 3.06 attacks per round)

[Cream_Soda]

The guy says he averages 5 attacks per round.

Averages.

5 per round.

By your selective memories combined, I am Captain Eyeballing.

(MNK/WAR with Apoc/A&O/VV atmas with Brutal/Epona's, KA merits, Tantra neck, 5/5 AF3+2, etc can only average 3.06 attacks per round)

Can you quote that part, please? I totally missed it and could use a good laugh.

[Greatguardian]

Mojo, I've tested and found that reducing STR from 82 to 77 costs me 40~50 points of dmg per hit on a level 70~ish mob (Yagudo Assasin, Castle Oztroja).

But looking at your graph... shouldn't the Yagudo Assasin therefore have over 200 VIT? Realistic?

As for Hits vs DMG, a loss of 40~50 dmg is 400~500 dmg lost every 10 hits, we can attack up to a limit of 8 hits per round, my average number of hits per round is 5, without DA modifiers.

So in 2 rounds I cut 5 STR from my gear, and lose 400~500 DMG, if I had put DA+1 in that same spot, it might raise my average number of hits to 6 or 7, therefore still losing DMG, but only 200~400 DMG

So where is the gain? It's much like the promised gains of Att instead of STR, it raises the potential, but never delivers.

^ Filling up minimum space requirements here

[Cream_Soda]

http://i33.tinypic.com/28lb4uf.jpg

[Musahashi]

Because you're eyeballing your results and are misaccurately measuring your damage. Again, as stated in my previous post. Give me an exact average before 5 str and an exact average after 5 str. If you can't do that, your testing means nothing.

Like I said, I don't use 3rd party software to log my results, and I'm not one to write thesis on game math, so taking any time to write down 1000's of hits, not for me, but you may if you like.

And yes, the haste math has been confirmed, it was first offered to us by the creators of windower (illegally), and tested after by hundreds of people, but nobody knows where the math on fSTR came from, nobody has tested it extensively, and there is no possible way that the limitations can be correct if I lose any DMG dealt on a mob 20 levels lower than me, and with only losing 5 STR.

So I'm not telling you to do anything/believe anything I write, I'm telling you to go test it for yourself, because right now, your telling me things that you haven't tested either, and the math equations have probably been drafted by trolls, and since hacking isn't really legal, I'm not willing to reverse-engineer the game just to prove you wrong.

In my opinion, getting out into an area, killing a few hundred mobs, or maybe less gives me a very accurate idea of what is good and bad for my mnk. I would much rather do things that way, rather than read and follow an untested theory just because the equations are complex enough to believe.

[Greatguardian]

Like I said, I don't use 3rd party software to log my results, and I'm not one to write thesis on game math, so taking any time to write down 1000's of hits, not for me, but you may if you like.

And yes, the haste math has been confirmed, it was first offered to us by the creators of windower (illegally), and tested after by hundreds of people, but nobody knows where the math on fSTR came from, nobody has tested it extensively, and there is no possible way that the limitations can be correct if I lose any DMG dealt on a mob 20 levels lower than me, and with only losing 5 STR.

So I'm not telling you to do anything/believe anything I write, I'm telling you to go test it for yourself, because right now, your telling me things that you haven't tested either, and the math equations have probably been drafted by trolls, and since hacking isn't really legal, I'm not willing to reverse-engineer the game just to prove you wrong.

In my opinion, getting out into an area, killing a few hundred mobs, or maybe less gives me a very accurate idea of what is good and bad for my mnk. I would much rather do things that way, rather than read and follow an untested theory just because the equations are complex enough to believe.

There is where you went wrong, and where you lost ... no, you can't lose credibility you don't have.

[Cream_Soda]

Like I said, I don't use 3rd party software to log my results, and I'm not one to write thesis on game math, so taking any time to write down 1000's of hits, not for me, but you may if you like.

I've done sufficient testing myself on game mechanics. I just wanted to see where you were pulling your numbers from, which is out of your rear, lol.

but nobody knows where the math on fSTR came from, nobody has tested it extensively, and there is no possible way that the limitations can be correct if I lose any DMG dealt on a mob 20 levels lower than me, and with only losing 5 STR.

yes, it's been tested quite extensively, lol.

You're not losing damage, you're eye balling. You admit yourself you didn't even bother to write anything down. You're not a human calculator. You're looking at a few high damage hits and a few low dmg hits and making assumptions based on that.

Knowing your stats and the enemy's stats, you can math out your damage. You can math out the highest damage hit possible and the lowest damage hit possible, as well as your average. The difference between your lower bound and your higher bound will be quite a large difference. Leaving that 5 str on, you can still hit those low numbers that you were supposedly seeing w/o the 5 str.


Again though, you can gear how you want, I frankly don't care how you gear, but when you're here on a forum telling other people who may take you seriously when you say that str is better than DA, yea, I'll come out and correct you, because you're flat out wrong.

[Musahashi]

The guy says he averages 5 attacks per round.

Averages.

5 per round.

By your selective memories combined, I am Captain Eyeballing.

(MNK/WAR with Apoc/A&O/VV atmas with Brutal/Epona's, KA merits, Tantra neck, 5/5 AF3+2, etc can only average 3.06 attacks per round)

3.06 attacks per round.... LOL!

MNK always hits twice per round, ALWAYS. Include DA from /war and kick attacks. You'll find 3 hits per round happens 90+% of the time.

So 3.06 hits.... lmao!