No more almost impossible to obtain crap please

[svengalis]

Funny how nobody complained when abyssea came out about rehashing old zones and just adding new monsters. All everyone cared about was the gear you got from it. Now that everyone has all the gear they want and weapons that do massive damage all of a sudden they are bored.

SE gave us a timeline for what they say is "content". Abyssea was part of that "content" yet everyone seems to forget about that now that they have everything from Abyssea. You seem to misunderstand that fact that SE is moving on. They are creating newer and better things. Not sure why people on here don't see that. There WILL be a day the servers shut down for this game. There WILL be a day that SE says we will not be supporting FF11 anymore.

Now do I want to see that happen? Of course not. Putting 8+ years into this game this is almost like a second job for me. Granted what I say sounds negative, but its reality.

Lets do a quick google search and see what we come up with.

Lets look at this...

http://www.pcworld.com/article/24346...in_a_year.html

Read this article and you tell me how you take it. Then read all the comments at the bottom. WoW still has years to catch up to the length of time FFXI has been out. By that time their subscription numbers will continue to tank. Even the comments at the bottom say they need to revamp the game.

Lets look at this...

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/...-of-warcraft/1

Funny how you guys say its bad business to release another MMO to compete with your own products. Then turn around and say this is why Blizzard has done things right. Meanwhile they have a new MMO coming out in 2012 (AND IT LOOKS LIKE WoW) go figure....

Blizzard's new MMO won't come until 2013/14 and it will be a fps MMO. It won't compete with WoW.

[Unleashhell]

I bolded the main part here, but if you've been paying attention for the past year, but FFXIV was originally supposed to be the "bigger and better thing." We all know how that turned out, and it's potentially going to take them two tries and going vastly overbudget to get it right. Any right-minded company would have pulled the plug and had the original dev team fired, but this is Final Fantasy. The brand is far too important and SE have gone all in to make sure that succeeds.

Abyssea was a cut and paste job in terms of zones, I concede that, but you also had completely fresh elements not ever seen before - the stagger system, cruor buffs and Atma being the main part and the sudden U-turn from grind-filled level 75 content being the other. Arguments for/against Abyssea aside, Abyssea had an intriguing battle system and then they went and abused the idea into the ground by extending it into the other endgame at the time; Dynamis, WoE and Voidwatch.



I'm not saying XI should be around forever. I'm saying, in the current climate (XIV currently in limbo and the XI community generally weary and constantly in awe of how stupid the dev team is), SE cannot afford to be cutting corners and pulling things like this out of their ass.

If there is sufficient demand for a product (much like people asking for new content/UI overhauls) then a company should be capitalizing on that demand should it be high enough. Instead we have a skeleton development team pretty much insistant on covering their ears and implementing what they "think" we like, rather than listening to players and enticing people to continue playing and subscribing until the next big thing.

SE currently have two stagnating MMOs and it's in their best interest to not try screwing up the one with the esablished playerbase right now, else there won't be anyone supporting either when FFXIV 2.0 rolls around. If people think XI is crap, and XIV 2.0 is 9 months away, they're not going to be waiting around paying for a game they don't like. They'll be going directly to the competition.

For the most part I agree with you on your statements. But consider how long FF11 has been around. If you read about MMO's alot of articles will tell you that most (not all) MMO have about a 5 to 10 year or so shelf life. Final Fantasy 11 is already pushing the 10 year mark and that in itself is a pretty awesome accomplishment. As a business SE needs to push forward, and they decided to make FF14. Unfortunately FF14 came way too early imo. They should have waited another 2 years maybe even 3 before releasing that. They figured they would have both games out and a decent amount of players from FF11 would play both 11 and 14.

Unfortunately as we know it tanked big time. So SE most likely said look we gotta get all hands on deck here and salvage what we can. Don't forget this is a very long running series and has a very loyal following. SE knew if they screwed up 14 it could potentially have a huge impact on any future products they release especially anything with the Final Fantasy name attached to it. Unfortunately FF11 took the big hurt from this and almost all of the resources from 11 had to salvage what they could of 14.

From a business aspect in a way they had to do this, it effects them long term. Plus they have to not only fix FF14 but they have to continue with new products. They cant put everything on hold just to fix 14, nor can they put too much into ff11 which is close to the end of its shelf life. So you can see how spread thin I'm sure SE is right now. Its not a matter of just going out and hiring more people. More people will equal more payroll, insurance (not sure how insurance works in Japan so I'm just going by the USA) etc etc throwing budgets even further into negative numbers. I'm not sure exactly when it happened but SE had a MAJOR tank in its stock price. I believe it was a few years ago. That is alot of money lost right there. So they continue to be spread thinner and thinner.

This is why sometimes I try to defend SE on my posts because I can understand things from their side. Which leads to debates, arguments /lolignorelists etc. I'm not here to fight with people and I can understand where the player is coming from. Things aren't as easy said and done. I blame alot of FF11 lack of attention because of the failure of 14 which I'm sure we all can agree on. But they have alot at stake and they need to redeem themselves.

[Dragoy]

I don't know what GW II is, but Diablo III isn't even in the same genre. It's not an MMO, it's a co-op Roguelike game. It's not a persistent world and you only play with a few people in created games at a time.

Guild Wars 2?
May bee.

[Yarly]

There's nothing impossible to obtain. Everything can be done by any casual player. Why all the complaining?

[Kraggy]

It's important to keep an impossible dream somewhere.

Er, no, if it's impossible then only a retarded idiot would try to do it, normal people will just pack up and leave if that's all there would be keeping them playing.

People here are agreed on that, the debate is just how near 'impossible' the thing should be, because right now it is, for all practical intents, 'impossible'.

[Camiie]

It's important to keep an impossible dream somewhere.

Just wondering, but do you get your philosophy from fate/Zero? Are you a king?

There's nothing impossible to obtain. Everything can be done by any casual player. Why all the complaining?

Yeah a casual player and 17 of his closest friends literally devoting years of their lives to obtain a single item just for him. I suppose it technically isn't impossible, but I'd like to see you get it done. I'll stop back by in a decade to see how it's going for you.

[Sparthos]

WTH is your issue with F2P MMO's? They wouldn't be making money unless there was a demand for them, which means customers. Or are you wanting to turn the MMO industry into a authoritarian dictatorship where only Sparthos approved MMO's are allowed to be published.

This is an opinion board and my opinion is that F2P MMOs are a blatant cashgrab designed to squeeze money from players rather than creating a world where people enjoy themselves. It's no different than the system of DLC that also plagues the market - publishers give you less and less for your 40/50/60 dollar purchases then nickle and dime you for things you'd have normally got with the original bundle. Console releases already do this to the annoyance of gamers and MMOs only scale up the problem.

F2P reward people with deep pockets and to those who are on tight budgets? You're screwed because you can't afford to "play" (keep up with) the game. People play games to escape the realities of real-life, not to be shown that they can't obtain beamsword +12 because it costs $5 in a cash shop and has become the standard in gameplay within the virtual world. F2P almost always turns out costing the player more than the subscription model so it's no wonder that publishers are more than happy to put a price tag on everything, especially when doubled-down with the obsessive nature of MMOs.

Wait, here's where you say "Spar, you don't have to buy anything at all you'll simply just have to limit yourself." and to that I say why shouldn't players be on equal footing? The developers demonize RMT activities then turn around and basically design a game around it, what a joke. As far as I'm concerned F2P models actively encourage the old adage of throwing money at problems and quickly become less about enjoyment and all about keeping up with your credit card.

The developers know it and that's why most of the good things wind up in the cash shop. Or should I call it the Crysta shop to blunt the reality of it being an RMT store?

There is nothing wrong with F2P, it's a different revenue model with P2P and if implemented horribly will result in your MMO shutting down and going out of business. If implemented properly then you'll turn a profit. See Turbine.

Who said anything about profits? You think I can't see the lucrative benefits of a company doing a F2P MMO? Oh I can see it but that comes at the price of selling your playerbase down the river. Instead of centering on satisfying the customer (who is willing to pay) you become totally obsessed with turning a profit by pushing the envelope. The "free to play" is the bait and once they have their hooks in you it becomes $1 here, $5 there and $10 to go anywhere.

[Lafaiel]

This is an opinion board and my opinion is that F2P MMOs are a blatant cashgrab designed to squeeze money from players rather than creating a world where people enjoy themselves. It's no different than the system of DLC that also plagues the market - publishers give you less and less for your 40/50/60 dollar purchases then nickle and dime you for things you'd have normally got with the original bundle. Console releases already do this to the annoyance of gamers and MMOs only scale up the problem.

F2P reward people with deep pockets and to those who are on tight budgets? You're screwed because you can't afford to "play" (keep up with) the game. People play games to escape the realities of real-life, not to be shown that they can't obtain beamsword +12 because it costs $5 in a cash shop and has become the standard in gameplay within the virtual world. F2P almost always turns out costing the player more than the subscription model so it's no wonder that publishers are more than happy to put a price tag on everything, especially when doubled-down with the obsessive nature of MMOs.

Wait, here's where you say "Spar, you don't have to buy anything at all you'll simply just have to limit yourself." and to that I say why shouldn't players be on equal footing? The developers demonize RMT activities then turn around and basically design a game around it, what a joke. As far as I'm concerned F2P models actively encourage the old adage of throwing money at problems and quickly become less about enjoyment and all about keeping up with your credit card.

The developers know it and that's why most of the good things wind up in the cash shop. Or should I call it the Crysta shop to blunt the reality of it being an RMT store?



Who said anything about profits? You think I can't see the lucrative benefits of a company doing a F2P MMO? Oh I can see it but that comes at the price of selling your playerbase down the river. Instead of centering on satisfying the customer (who is willing to pay) you become totally obsessed with turning a profit by pushing the envelope. The "free to play" is the bait and once they have their hooks in you it becomes $1 here, $5 there and $10 to go anywhere.

Couldn't say it better myself.

[Alhanelem]

Technically, all MMOs are a cash grab. but hey, let's blanket bash all f2p games, there aren't any good ones out there!

[saevel]

This is an opinion board and my opinion is that F2P MMOs are a blatant cashgrab designed to squeeze money from players rather than creating a world where people enjoy themselves. It's no different than the system of DLC that also plagues the market - publishers give you less and less for your 40/50/60 dollar purchases then nickle and dime you for things you'd have normally got with the original bundle. Console releases already do this to the annoyance of gamers and MMOs only scale up the problem.

F2P reward people with deep pockets and to those who are on tight budgets? You're screwed because you can't afford to "play" (keep up with) the game. People play games to escape the realities of real-life, not to be shown that they can't obtain beamsword +12 because it costs $5 in a cash shop and has become the standard in gameplay within the virtual world. F2P almost always turns out costing the player more than the subscription model so it's no wonder that publishers are more than happy to put a price tag on everything, especially when doubled-down with the obsessive nature of MMOs.

Wait, here's where you say "Spar, you don't have to buy anything at all you'll simply just have to limit yourself." and to that I say why shouldn't players be on equal footing? The developers demonize RMT activities then turn around and basically design a game around it, what a joke. As far as I'm concerned F2P models actively encourage the old adage of throwing money at problems and quickly become less about enjoyment and all about keeping up with your credit card.

The developers know it and that's why most of the good things wind up in the cash shop. Or should I call it the Crysta shop to blunt the reality of it being an RMT store?



Who said anything about profits? You think I can't see the lucrative benefits of a company doing a F2P MMO? Oh I can see it but that comes at the price of selling your playerbase down the river. Instead of centering on satisfying the customer (who is willing to pay) you become totally obsessed with turning a profit by pushing the envelope. The "free to play" is the bait and once they have their hooks in you it becomes $1 here, $5 there and $10 to go anywhere.

Ahh there is our difference. Your referring to some horrible F2P MMO's that are similar to drug dealers. I'm referring to significantly better ones. Specifically I'm referring to DDO run by Turbine, something I've been playing on and off for several years now.

DDO is free to download, no purchase necessary. There is nothing you can "buy" that isn't obtainable in game. You can either spend money on a TP bundle and buy the Drow race, or you farm fame for a week and buy the Drow race option. Nothing is locked out from F2P members, they only need to put in the effort to acquire the points if they want access to things.

DDO has three systems, first being F2P where it's 100% free no purchase required yet does require time. Second option is the most popular where people occasionally spend $5~20 for a point pack and use that to speed up the unlocking process. The third system is a full blown subscription model. I spend $15 per month subscription fee, for this fee I get a fully unlocked account bank, access to all zones, access to all jobs and races, and access to all expanded content on day 1. I never need to buy an expansion pack as due to being a subscription member it's provided to me for free. Along with this I'm provided with 500 TP per month to spend on things like XP / Loot potions or consumables. Both potions only provide a +20% bonus over the course of three hours and are a something like 200TP each. Their designed to be used prior to spamming quests for level ups / loot rewards. Did I mention the entire game is instanced. The only zones that are shared are the city's which are used as quest and market hubs. The moment I walk outside I get an instanced zone of the region. This would be like walking out of Jeuno and getting an instanced copy of Rolenbery and everything attached. For my moneys worth, DDO provides me with significantly more then FFXI. So if it's a "cash grab" then so too is FFXI.

Now I play both because while I enjoy a hardcore MMO like FFXI, I like to have something I can jump in / out of as a break to prevent the burnout that eventually sets in.

So yes I agree with you that many "F2P" MMO's are absolute crap and do nothing but force players to "pay to win". I would never play those games because I can recognize a rip off when I see it. Also realize that there are good F2P/P2P hybrid games out there. They use the F2P model to get casual players in and the subscription model for the hardcore players and thus establish a large player-base with which to interact.